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16.9.19 1112
The W - Current Events & Politics - North Korea Goes (Has Gone?) Nuclear
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spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 1414 days
Last activity: 289 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.96
Well, while our military resources are spent fighting off fifth-rate Shia clerics in southern Iraq and making sure we are safe from the Weapons of Mass Destruction that existed apparently only in Saddam's fevered mind, apparently our good friends in North Korea, the eternally paranoid ones who IIRC have said they would be more than willing to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike on the United States if they thought we were going to attack, either have completed or are preparing to complete a nuclear bomb trial. But hey, let's not have THAT be a major issue, not when there are swift boats and National Guard planes to discuss. This whole fucking election is a sham at this point, the media along with the two happily compliant parties has decided to make the entire race about a war that ended in the mid-70's, and we've lost 1,000 of our soldiers while an avowed enemy is building weapons of REALLY HUGE MASS DESTRUCTION IN PLAIN SIGHT OF THE WORLD. Yes, I blame Bush's single-minded focus on Iraq for allowing this to continue, but hell, it's not like the Democrats have really made much of a stink about it either and heaven knows Clinton screwed the pooch on dealing with them as well. So now that both sides are complicit in this matter, maybe we can actually deal with it, instead of using it as a politcal football to prove how the other side hates America. Not very likely I guess. Oh well, I suppose if at some point L.A. goes up in a mushroom-cloud from a PDRK missile we'll be told they're working with the East Asian branch of Al-Qaeda and because of this we need 200,000 more troops to guard Iraq. Oh well

Here's a link to the article from the http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/12/international/asia/12nuke.html?ei=5006&en=87e70c368a1790ca&ex=1095566400&partner=ALTAVISTA1&pagewanted=print&position= (New York Times (reg req.)). There's relevant links all over the web on this. A quote from the story:

    Originally posted by NYT
    Senior officials in South Korea and Japan did not appear to have been briefed about the new evidence, beyond what one called "a nonspecific warning of a growing problem" from American officials. But it is a measure of the extraordinary nervousness about the North's intentions that earlier this week, South Korean intelligence officials who saw evidence of an intense fire at a suspected nuclear location alerted their American counterparts that a small nuclear test might have already occurred. American officials reviewed seismic sensors and other data and concluded it was a false alarm, though the fire has yet to be explained.

    A huge explosion rocked an area in North Korea near the border with China on Thursday and appeared to be much bigger than a blast at the Ryongchon train station that killed 170 people in April, Reuters said, citing a report by the Yonhap news agency of South Korea. The United States "is showing a big interest because the blast was seen from satellites,'' Yonhap quoted an unidentified official in Beijing as saying.

    [The cause of the blast has not been determined, but the Beijing official said Washington was not ruling out the possibility that it may be linked to a nuclear test. Yonhap reported that a mushroom cloud up to 2.5 miles in diameter was spotted after the blast in remote Yanggang province in the far northeast.



(edited by spf2119 on 12.9.04 0419)


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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 3058 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
I'm more worried about the PDRK sneaking a nuke to a terrorist group than I am about the PDRK attacking the West Coast. Any country that launches a nuclear weapon against the US with such a limited arsenal has signed their own death certificate.

That and the fact that I am willing to bet that Red China will take proactive steps to make sure the PDRK doesn't drag them in...



You know, if John Kerry weren't so darn electable, the Democrats would be panicking right now. Oh wait, he isn't and they are.
- James Taranto
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 523 days
Last activity: 511 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
Once again, this demonstrates the flaw in the pre-emptive policy of the current administration. I agree that any nation would have signed their own death certificate if they nuke us. However, what if the said nation thinks the death certificate is already signed anyway. After all, North Korea was listed as part of the 'axis of evil'. And one out of three of those nations is now occupied by us. What if North Korea comes to a point where they think they have nothing to lose?



The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 1197 days
Last activity: 584 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.66
For what its worth, South Korea now says mibees no (news.bbc.co.uk)



redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 2268 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.27
Hindsight being 20/20, perhaps Truman should have let McArthur go past the 38th parallel.
The North Korean government is nuts. That the Clinton administration let Jimmy Carter negotiate a deal with them in the 90's was stupidity, and in the grand scheme of things was the worst move by the administration. Did anyone actually think the North Korean government was going to hold up their end of the deal? Except for naive Jimmy, no one should have believed it.
The current administration has done a piss poor job with North Korea. Unless we were going to act against them, Bush should have not mentioned them in the State of the Union, as it only increases their paranoia.
Over/Under on Japan having a nuke is 2007.
If there is a bright side to all of this, perhaps it is Beijing deciding to cut a deal with Washington to get rid of the nutcases of North Korea before they nuke Beijing out of boredom/anger at Beijing having business dealings with the capitalists.
The media is a joke, was a joke, and always will be a joke. The only thing that changes is they become even greater sanctimonious jackasses as time passes.
And, slightly off topic, but with spf taking shots at Clinton, I have to wonder if this is due to being in shock that the defending World Series Champions will be hosting games at Comiskey, an event that hasn't happened since the beloved Kaiser.



The Public Demands: Replace the Star Spangled Banner with Brass Bonanza.
Malarky
Bauerwurst








Since: 19.8.04

Since last post: 5455 days
Last activity: 5453 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.87
It's quickly becoming inevitable that both Iran and the DPRK will be nuclear armed by mid 2005. Yes, these two regimes having access to mankind's worst weapons is bad enough, but the knock-on effect will be even more worrisome for the world, in the long run; How long can Saudi Arabia wait after Iran goes nuclear before they feel the need for their own nuclear deterrent? Ditto for South Korea and Japan after lil' Kim gets his hands on his new toy. Even Australia may feel the need to defend themselves from this new nuclear threat in kind.

Proliferation breeds proliferation, and over time the chances of a genocidal/homicidal/extremist regime gaining control of a country armed with nukes goes up as more and more countries are forced to go nuclear in response to the advances of their neighbours. Just look at India/Pakistan.
LionJeetSingh
Chourico








Since: 3.3.03

Since last post: 5094 days
Last activity: 4921 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.70
Why is it that only select countries should be nuclear powers? Who gives someone the authority to state that another cannot build a nuclear arsenal.

On one hand, the US Constitution states that all have the right to bear arms, yet when unfavourable nations start developing their own WMD, there's a problem.

Double standard.



Vut Joo Talkin?
Malarky
Bauerwurst








Since: 19.8.04

Since last post: 5455 days
Last activity: 5453 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.87
In the case of nukes the double standard works just fine.

The less countries that have these weapons the better, as the need for them only increases when the number of states possessing them increases.

Of course, we'd all like a world where nukes were abolished once and for all and scofflaw states who insisted on holding onto them were dealt with harshly, but that would require some real leadership.
The Vile1
Lap cheong








Since: 4.9.02
From: California

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.30
Well then, I guess we should hope the Kim Jong Il puppet in Team America: World Police doesn't piss him off too much.

"Soon evwey cuntwey will be in compwete chaos!"

"And so you see, the new wowld is inevitbwe."
"It's what?"
"Inevi-inevitabwe."
"One more time."
"INEVITABLE! THINGS ARE INEVITABWEEE GOING TO CHANGE!"




"Don't compare my arm to your cheap arm!"
-Edward Elric
DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 691 days
Last activity: 593 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.08
    Originally posted by LionJeetSingh
    Why is it that only select countries should be nuclear powers? Who gives someone the authority to state that another cannot build a nuclear arsenal.

    On one hand, the US Constitution states that all have the right to bear arms, yet when unfavourable nations start developing their own WMD, there's a problem.

    Double standard.


Things like nonproliferation treaties for one and agreements countries sign. And not to sound holier than thou but here is a huge difference between what the USSR and the US did and this.



Perception is reality
The Thrill
Banger








Since: 16.4.02
From: Green Bay, WI

Since last post: 1978 days
Last activity: 161 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25

This ABC News article says North Korea claims the blast was planned demolition: blasting away a mountain for a hydroelectric power project.

It also says Sec. of State Colin Powell believes the blast wasn't a nuke, but wants North Korean verification. However, Powell says there has been unusual activity at known North Korean nuclear sites lately...



Star wipe, and...we're out.
Thrillin' ain't easy.



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Malarky
Bauerwurst








Since: 19.8.04

Since last post: 5455 days
Last activity: 5453 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.87
    Originally posted by The Vile1
    Well then, I guess we should hope the Kim Jong Il puppet in Team America: World Police doesn't piss him off too much.

    "Soon evwey cuntwey will be in compwete chaos!"

    "And so you see, the new wowld is inevitbwe."
    "It's what?"
    "Inevi-inevitabwe."
    "One more time."
    "INEVITABLE! THINGS ARE INEVITABWEEE GOING TO CHANGE!"



Hehe. Saw the preview, it looks like a riot.
policus
Loukanika








Since: 17.8.04

Since last post: 5228 days
Last activity: 5206 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.43
Although North Korea can be viewed as a nuclear threat, the current administration has handled this issue very well. Just because the media doesn't talk about it all the time like they do with Iraq, doesn't mean that the current administration isn't paying any attention to it. North Korea by themselves could not possibly launch an attack on the united states. They simply don't have the rocket technology to do so. Thus, they need to get the nuclear device outside of their own boarders. Not an easy task if you ask me. To the south is South Korea and 35,000 US troops and a 3 mile DMZ. To the North is China another well controlled boarder and there's no way Kora would want to get caught trying to sneak a nuclear device into China. China has the biggest army in the world and just needs and excuse to use it. So now you're left with the East and West ocean boarders. This might seem easy just put the device in a boat and take it somewhere. WRONG!. The US owns the seas around the world. We have military ships all over the pacific and I believe we a decent part of the pacific fleet mobilized around North Korea. I don't think it's probable for any freighter to leave north Korea without having the US navy take a good hard look at it. Your only other option now is to fly it somewhere. putting a nuclear device on an airplane is not an easy thing. Nuclear devices give off radiation signatures that satellites and surveillance planes can detect. You could shield the device with lead but you'll need about 20 tons of lead to protect it. Not many planes can Carry that kind of payload without looking suspicious. North Korea is not a realistic threat to engage a nuclear strike against the US.

Iran on the other hand maybe more of a problem. I believe Iran is damn close to having a nuclear bomb. If you read between the lines about Iraq in the news you'll see Iran is separating itself from the UN and the IAEA. I think in the next few months and especially after the US election a lot of political pressure from the UN and the world community for Iran to come forward about their nuclear program, regardless of who wins the election

I've heard blips in the news that the US is positioning its navy for a blockade of Iran and North Korea in the upcoming months to resolve these issues. I think the current administration is handling the issue of North Korea well and that you don't hear about it much because when things go right or well it doesn't make a good news story. "You never hear a story about a bank that doesn't get robbed"
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- Thecanadianone, "Veneration" of Old Glory (2005)
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