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The W - Current Events & Politics - Norman Mailer on "Why We Are At War" (plus a WWE reference)
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JohnnyHerbs
Cotto








Since: 1.6.03
From: Los Angeles

Since last post: 6454 days
Last activity: 5942 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.44
I've been interested in Mailer since high school, and although I don't agree with everything in this article, he still makes some very interesting points.

So, Bush led us into war to appease us jealous white men? It's not totally ridiculous. Maybe less ridiculous than the reasons that Bush himself gave us for going to war. Read for yourself:


http://psychoanalystsopposewar.org/resources_files/NormanMailer_WeWentToWarJustToBoostTheWhiteMaleEgo.html

**there's also a WWE reference thrown in there
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Nag
Landjager








Since: 10.1.03
From: Enter your city here

Since last post: 5621 days
Last activity: 3676 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.92
So Bush went to war to please us insecure honky's with a penis, because Tiger Woods is good at golf.

It boils down to a a bunch of Freudian shit, trying to argue this is like trying to argue with a 4 year old who believes there are monsters under the bed. Sadly, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star won't shut jokers like this up.

Me being nowhere near the wordsmith he is, or as well read; If I were to suggest such a thing I would be hung out to dry and labeled every damning thing under the sun, and most likely banned from many web servers for violations TOA.

And my white male ego couldn't handle that.

Still it's amazing how some people can come across as being so intelligent, yet be so stupid. I guess its like buying mansion only to fall through the floor cause you got cockroaches.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 4713 days
Last activity: 3167 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
That is perhaps the most asinine thing I have read in quite a while...



Barbwire Mike
Boudin rouge








Since: 6.11.03
From: Dudleyville

Since last post: 6743 days
Last activity: 6736 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.84
    Originally posted by Grimis
    That is perhaps the most asinine thing I have read in quite a while...
Then I take it you haven't seen THIS yet. (note: Beverly has already been exposed as a leftie activist)



Lethalwrestling.com: If you don't read us, you're probably gay
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 4713 days
Last activity: 3167 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
I had heard about it. Another proud moment in journalism from CBS.



StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 937 days
Last activity: 937 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.13
I saw this report on the news this morning. Exactly WHEN did the law change that had females signing up for selective service? I must have missed that one! Frieking morons!



Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.

Doe, Ray, Me, Fa, So, La, TITO SANTANA!
RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me








Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

Since last post: 1440 days
Last activity: 1223 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.42
RE:MAILER - Hey! I thought the reason we went to war was for OIL? What's being white and insecure have to do with it?

RE: COCCO - Would she vote for a Democrat? "Absolutely," she says. "I would vote for Howdy Doody if I thought it would keep my boys home and safe."

Safe? In Philly? That's funny. Unless things have changed since we lived there several years ago, you can't walk four city blocks without the fear of dying. Fangol

also - MAILER: ...World-Wide Wrestling Federation

Damn. That was 25 years, two "boom" periods, 20 Wrestlemanias, a Monday Night War, a Hogan, an Austin, a Russo, a steroid trial, pandas, blurring, three logo changes and two company name "re-brandings" ago. You would think if a guy as smart as Mailer was going to start analogizing the the white male's last bastions, he would have at least included bowling. And the Klan. Or at least have made an attempt to get the name right of the wrestling company

FLEA

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 29.9.04 1221)


Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high...

FLEA - 1ryderfakin.com - THE IWC 100! And The Wrestling Dead Pool!!
CHAPLOW
Morcilla








Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

Since last post: 3572 days
Last activity: 2809 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.78
What a rolling pile of crap. Just because he uses words like "quintessential", "malaise" and "aggregate" doesnt make him smart- I own a Thesaurus too!



FACT: 100% of all car accidents are automobile related.
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 6 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.60
    Originally posted by WhoTookMyHonor?
    Just because he uses words like "quintessential", "malaise" and "aggregate" doesnt make him smart- I own a Thesaurus too!


No, what makes him smart is that he doesn't NEED a Thesaurus. Usually, when you win a Pulitzer, you've more or less proven whether you're smart or not.

(edited by Leroy on 3.10.04 1157)




"Who are these f--king people anyway? What more do they need to make a decision?" - Jason "George Costanza" Alexander on Swing Voters
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 6274 days
Last activity: 6116 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Leroy
      Originally posted by WhoTookMyHonor?
      Just because he uses words like "quintessential", "malaise" and "aggregate" doesnt make him smart- I own a Thesaurus too!


    No, what makes him smart is that he doesn't NEED a Thesaurus. Usually, when you win a Pulitzer, you've more or less proven whether you're smart or not.

    (edited by Leroy on 3.10.04 1157)


"They gave him an award!" is not a convincing argument. Mailer's argument in the above-linked piece is as deserving of the Pulitzer as Walter Duranty.



In Theo We Trust
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 6 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.60
Actually, calling an accomplished author - one of the most renowned author's of this century - stupid because you disagree with his opinion isn't a convincing argument.

And actually, Mailer won two Pulitzer's, one for "Armies of the Night" and one for "The Executioner's Song". And they didn't just "give him an award" - it's a Pulizter. It's not like "The World's Greatest Grandpa"....

So forgive me if I think he deserves a bit more respect.




"Who are these f--king people anyway? What more do they need to make a decision?" - Jason "George Costanza" Alexander on Swing Voters
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

Since last post: 6274 days
Last activity: 6116 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Leroy
    Actually, calling an accomplished author - one of the most renowned author's of this century - stupid because you disagree with his opinion isn't a convincing argument.

    And actually, Mailer won two Pulitzer's, one for "Armies of the Night" and one for "The Executioner's Song". And they didn't just "give him an award" - it's a Pulizter. It's not like "The World's Greatest Grandpa"....

    So forgive me if I think he deserves a bit more respect.


I haven't called Mailer stupid. Certainly I think his thesis in the article this thread discusses is pretty stupid.

And I don't care how many Pulitzers he's won. Mailer's assertion that we went to war to soothe the white male ego is an intellectually lazy argument written by a man with minimal knowledge of the subject, likely for the sole purpose of starting asinine discussions like this one. Made by someone less-credentialied, it would be dismissed for what it is.



In Theo We Trust
Nag
Landjager








Since: 10.1.03
From: Enter your city here

Since last post: 5621 days
Last activity: 3676 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.91
Well, throwing the logic of this article out the window, lets put the shoe on the other foot. At that point respect may transform itself into a state of enraged. I guess it don't bother anyone but me, Dare I say it, aww fuck it.

THIS ARTICLE IS BIGOTED.

Calm folks, I didn't say that man.

Just find certain adjectives near the end of the article, transpose those adjectives with their antonyms, and BAM, we got a boycott against the Pulitzer organization on our hands.

To me this so-called "Intellectual License" isn't a license to speak prejudice, even if it is against the offspring of the repressors from a bygone era. Nor does a lengthy resume, no matter how impressive, substitute for logic, as anyone with a sixth grade education can see the gaping flaws. Flaws which have nothing to do his political stance.

Your right, stupid is the wrong word and I shouldn't have used it, but if accuse this man of trespassing into the realms of reality, you'd be charging an innocent man.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 4713 days
Last activity: 3167 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by Leroy
    No, what makes him smart is that he doesn't NEED a Thesaurus. Usually, when you win a Pulitzer, you've more or less proven whether you're smart or not.
That is the most naive thing I think I have read. That's like saying a Hollywood actor is smart and should have their opinions seriously debated because they are famous.

Just because you have a snazzy award doesn't make you smart...especially when you write garbage like this.



Karlos the Jackal
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

Since last post: 3011 days
Last activity: 1966 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by Grimis
      Originally posted by Leroy
      No, what makes him smart is that he doesn't NEED a Thesaurus. Usually, when you win a Pulitzer, you've more or less proven whether you're smart or not.
    That is the most naive thing I think I have read. That's like saying a Hollywood actor is smart and should have their opinions seriously debated because they are famous.


Uh, it really isn't. Your analogy would make more sense if you said, "That's like saying a Hollywood actor is a good actor because they have won an Oscar."

Sure, it's open to debate -- having an Oscar certainly isn't proof that you're a good actor. Maybe you were just in the right place at the right time. But it's not like everyone has one.

--K





Last 5 movies seen: The Five Obstructions - The Most Terrible Time in My Life - Fahrenheit 9/11 - Super Size Me - Ladies and Gentlemen, the Fabulous Stains
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 6 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.60
    Originally posted by Grimis
    That is the most naive thing I think I have read.


Really? The MOST NAIVE... wow, thanks. At least my post accomplished something.

Normally, I'd take that as an insult, but lately, Grimis, I've found you funny more than anything else.

    Originally posted by Grimis
    That's like saying a Hollywood actor is smart and should have their opinions seriously debated because they are famous.

    Just because you have a snazzy award doesn't make you smart...especially when you write garbage like this.


No... it's not. And I think you know that. See, despite the fact that we disagree, I don't think you're an idiot. I do think you say things to deliberately enrage people so they get flustered... and I think you're EXTREMELY good at it. But that's another thing all together.

So either you know the above analogy is a bunch of baloney - or you've typed before you really thought about it.

Norman Mailer is one of the most prolific non-fiction writers - Pulitzers or no. Despite matter what you think of this article, he's not stupid. Period... so calling him stupid because he wrote an article you don't like is... well, stupid.

Even I don't agree with everything he wrote in that article - but I think he makes some interesting points, which is probably why no one really wants to critique the actual article.




"Who are these f--king people anyway? What more do they need to make a decision?" - Jason "George Costanza" Alexander on Swing Voters
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 4713 days
Last activity: 3167 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
But then you go off an use another pointless fact to legitimize him...
    Originally posted by Leroy
    Norman Mailer is one of the most prolific non-fiction writers - Pulitzers or no. Despite matter what you think of this article, he's not stupid.
That's like me trying to force you to believe something I say because I am "one of the most prolific the-w.com posters." Being prolific is like getting a certificate for perfect atttendance at the end of school. Just because you write a lot does not automatically give your writing meaning.

And I never said that Norman Mailer was stupid, but he does not attain the status of Super-genius just because he has an award.



CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 2 days
ICQ:  
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.07
Going back and reading over this thread, I have no idea why Leroy is arguing with Grimis about this. I *think* Leroy's beef is with Nag (post #2?) ...only he never responded to HIM, so...hell, I dunno. So, in other words, knock it off.



CRZ
Leroy
Boudin blanc








Since: 7.2.02

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 6 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.58
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Going back and reading over this thread, I have no idea why Leroy is arguing with Grimis about this. I *think* Leroy's beef is with Nag (post #2?) ...only he never responded to HIM, so...hell, I dunno. So, in other words, knock it off.


Actually, I was initially responding to WhoTookMyHonor?, who I quoted in my original post.

And the argument with Grimis started with...

    Originally posted by Grimis

    That is the most naive thing I think I have read.



..which I should have realized was simply to bait me into yet another ridiculous argument meant only to frustrate the living hell out of everyone. And like an idiot, I fell for it, even though I knew that's what was going on. I need to learn how to be more like Moe, quite frankly.

My bad...

(edited by Leroy on 4.10.04 1215)



"Who are these f--king people anyway? What more do they need to make a decision?" - Jason "George Costanza" Alexander on Swing Voters
CHAPLOW
Morcilla








Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

Since last post: 3572 days
Last activity: 2809 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.78
I dont want to instigate anything further, just putting my last two cents in- Just because the man won a Pulitzer doesnt mean everything he writes is gold. This is basically what PalpatineW said, but in a simplified manner.

My point in saying "I own a Thesaurus too" was not too call the man stupid, but to point out the fact that we cannot accept everything a man is compelled to write just because he has credentials and uses "complicated" language.



FACT: 100% of all car accidents are automobile related.
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As a secondary education major (physics, for those who care), I've seen a huge change in the reaction of parents. My father taught high school for 35 years (and has been coaching wrestling for almost 40)
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