Alright, I think I may be in the minority with this, but I was really disappointed in this show.
Rey vs. Tajiri: You'd think these guys would get more time on PPV to have a great match, but it seemed like they got the same 12 or so minutes they got on Smackdown! The match was alright, but nothing special. None of the armwork or legwork went anywhere, and it was completely forgotten by the end. **1/2
Benoit vs. Albert: This is why Benoit is so much better than Edge. Albert's best match ever, and the sharpshooter tribute made me smile. Albert almost KILLED Benoit with that blown Gorilla press, jesus christ, get this guy away from the good workers. **3/4
Matt Hardy vs. Zach Gowen: I smiled when Zach got his win, but I don't see any hope in the future for Matt Hardy. *1/2 for some fun spots.
APA vs. Bashams: Good god this match was horrid. Even the *bar* I was in chanted "boring".
Vince vs. Steph: There was massive heat for this, but it still was a painfully obvious finish. The heat made it watchable, but as a match, it was a load of shit. DUD By the way, for those not watching, this had the Hogan-Rock effect of draining a lot of heat from the audience.
Kurt Angle vs. John Cena: The duel chants were great, reminded me of London-Dragon. I'd love to see them do a double turn here, because Cena is so over, and Angle just isn't a great babyface. This was the match of the night, and the nearfalls were good. ***1/4 On the other side though, are they *ever* going to put up and coming talent over? Ever?
Eddie Guerrero vs. Big Show: This match was the shits. It was slow as hell the whole way, and it looks like the WWE has decided Guerrero is midcard for life. Hey, he didn't have much heat tonight anyways. Way to strike while the iron's hot. DUD
Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker: This was the worst match they've ever had together. It was slow and plodding, and what is the point of doing nearfalls when NOBODY HAS GRABBED THE CHAIN YET. Nobody bought into them, because it was so obvious. Oh yeah, if you do Johnny Ace finishes in every single match, they aren't cool anymore by the end of the night. In fact, the audience expects kickouts, so the end of matches is always a letdown. The ending was screwy as usual, and the whole bar was pretty pissed off about the match and the show. DUD
Have to disagree about the Vince/Stephanie and the Lesnar/Undertaker matches there. It seemed the audience actually got MORE into the show once the Vince/Stephanie match started [Edit: Just to clarify, what I mean is that I didn't get the impression it was a heat-killer. I could be wrong, but the audience seemed more up after that match then before.]
As for Lesnar/Undertaker, I thought they pulled that one off pretty well. And since I was half-expecting Undertaker to take it, I was surprised by the Brock win. The audience seemed into that match as well. Yeah, the last ten minutes could have been better without all the run-ins, but it's Undertaker, so I expect that from him most of the time now.
Eddie vs. Big Show also turned out better than I expected. Eddie using all his tricks against the big lumbering guy that won't give up. Worked for me.
Can't tell you a thing about the Bashams/APA match, as I was out of the room when it happened. Bashams had a decent little promo on Heat though, I thought.
I dunno. Just going by what I saw and heard tonight on the PPV. It appeared that the audience that had to pay for it at the arena were happy with what they paid for. It was certainly better than the past couple of PPVs, especially the last RAW one. I felt I got my money's worth out of it.
Originally posted by MichromeOn the other side though, are they *ever* going to put up and coming talent over? Ever?
They put Lesnar, Bashams, Gowen over, and they're all new people. It's like that Meatloaf song: 3 out of 6 ain't bad (since McMahon/McMahon doesn't really count). Unless of course, you just meant the young talent that you like.
Wrestling exists in the eternal present. What is, has always been, and when it no longer is, it never was. It has no past and no future, and sometimes even today is in question. - Madame Manga
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Originally posted by MichromeAlright, I think I may be in the minority with this, but I was really disappointed in this show.
You ain't in the minority; trust me. That had to be one of the least interesting WWE events - house show, TV or PPV - I've seen in recent years. That covers a TON of ground, as well.
I don't even know where to start. Putting on Mysterio v. Tajiri first made sense for the sake of having an opener, but you just *knew* it was going downhill from there.
Questionable booking choices, sloppy ringwork from almost everyone, a centerpiece match (McMahon-McMahon) that no one wanted to see, and a special stip. match that didn't take advantage of said stipulation until the match was almost finished. One of the people watching with us commented "This isn't a biker step match -- it's a biker chain match!!!"
I don't know where SmackDown goes from here. It's really sad that five of last year's SmackDown Six are still active, yet none of them are being programmed into interesting situations. I see (the SmackDown side) of Survivor Series looking like:
Vince McMahon v. Undertaker (which is great when you consider they'll also have Shane McMahon vs Kane; what? Paul Bearer wasn't available to face Linda?) Chris Benoit v. Brock Lesnar (okay, fine, but you know it will be screwed up somehow) Eddie v. Chavo (Now's just not the time to be breaking them up).
So where does that leave Angle? Cena? Big Show? Not only do we not know, they probably don't, either...
Anyways, it was a horrible, horrible show. i have no idea why I watched it.
Go back to a time when wrestling DIDN'T SUCK with a special 'retro' edition of Inside The Ropes!!!
So I'm ribbing the Lovely Mrs. Tracker about why she should see the show (all her faves: Benoit, Angle, Brock, Eddy, Zach) and I talk *myself* into buying the damn thing. Sigh.
Rey/Tajiri: An unfortunately slower match than we should see from these too. The WWE style shackles them. Then again Rey hasn't had his WCWesque streak of blown knees yet. I like the idea of Tajiri's Crazy 88 henchmen, but the WWE has GOT to stop using fan run-ins to move a story. That's asking for trouble. And drunks.
Benoit/Albert: Can we please move Benoit up the ladder now? Like to the U.S. belt? He's already made Show tap to the Crossface at least once. I'm not sure what was scarier: Benoit hitting the chair or the chair leg rubber cap I mistook for another of Benoit's teeth. Also, ick points to the ref picking up one of Albert's pins. Albert's butterfly facebuster should be a finisher, but he can't take a DDT properly. Get that knee out of the way.
Matt/Zach: A clean win. Hmm. Zach has got to stop pinning people over their right shoulder. He doesn't have leg leverage to credibly keep them down.
APA/Bashams: They got gold with Shaniqua and the mistress gimmick.
Vince/Steph: The Yankees were winning 6-0, and A&E showed a Travolta biography.
Angle/Cena: Cena shoulda won. He had the better performance of the match. I think he wrenched his back on the corner power bomb; Angle grabbed Cena's neck just to get all the way up.
Eddy/Show: Show made use of some good moves with the chinlock and camel clutches. Eddy held his own, so I'm happy it wasn't Squash City. It took two chokeslams (after all that punishment) for Show to win. Eddy used the trash can lid, a belt and brass knuckles and frankly he should have used something bigger given the size of Show's melon. A Con-belt-to woulda win it. And dig Eddy's entrance where he's staring down Show the whole way.
Lesnar/Taker: Deadly dull except for some cool spots. The Last Ride hop-out by Lesnar and the steps piledriver (and sell) made the match memorable.
It wasn't a horrible show. Vince/Steph, APA/Bashams and Taker/Lesnar were drab compared to the other matches, but there was a lot of talent on display here and the cruiserweights weren't made to look like pikers to the main eventers.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
A pretty good show wrestling-wise with some incredibly fucking stupid booking choices. There was no way Zach should have gone over, especially clean, and it pisses me off to see poor Matt Hardy get pissed on once again. The Angle/Cena match was hot shit, so Cena should have gone over to prolong the feud - now they're going to have to rush Cena's face turn. And I can only accept Big Show going over Eddie if one and only one scenario results from it: Brock v. Eddie at Survivor Series. If they're taking it off Eddie so he can feud with Chavo in the midcard while Undertaker gets a rematch, then once again, the Federation has learned nothing.
As for everything else... Right call in the Cruiserweight match, as far as I'm concerned. Rey *is* that division right now, and they need to build up others pronto. Benoit needs to be elevated and right now, to either the U.S. title (preferably) or the WWF title if the Fed refuses to do the right thing and give Eddie the shot. The Shaniqua thing is clearly working (and, in this case, we've got one scenario where the boob job is actually a good thing since it fits the gimmick). Vince/Steph was about what I expected (you *knew* they would find a way for Stephanie to lose without actually quitting since it's obvious to me that this is just a smokescreen for the wedding and honeymoon). Brock-Taker? Zzzzz. The Yankees game was more entertaining, and the game was long over by then. (I'm glad, though, that the WWF remembered Taker's feud with the FBI, as ridiculously one-sided as it was.)
(edited by Texas Kelly on 20.10.03 1013)
If the WWF decided to use a Super Mario Brothers gimmick...
"Mah gawd, King! Garrison Cade just bounced a fireball toward Rene Dupree!" "And look, Mark Jindrak just jumped on top of Conway's head! I think he's out cold, JR!" "What're they up to now..where did that huge pipe come from?!" "They're going down in the pipe! They're..they're gone!" --Mike Sweetser
"Oh my god, JR. Cade just shrunk after he was hit by that chair!" "Here comes RVD, King. What's that he has in that bag?" "Are those Mushrooms, JR?" "Cade's eating the Mushrooms. BAH GAWD, KING! Cade just grew twice his size!" --Mr. Tuesday
I'm with Mayhem on this one. It was not the best ppv I have seen, and I was having a tough time keeping my eyes open as well. There really was nothing I could single out that sucked really badly, it was just kind of bland, and not worth the money. Fact is we could see the same stuff any thursday night. Kudo's to Matt for putting Gowen over, but truth is I had a hard time suspending my disbelief for it. Zach does some amazing things, and has great talent, and I could not do even 1 percent of what he does, and I may be in a very small minority, but its just not working for me.
Let's be honest, guys, the majority of you were going to come on here and tear strips off of this show no matter what happened. I enjoyed it for the most part. The Opener, Train/Benoit and Angle/Cena were very good matches, the Gowen/Hardy and Lesnar/Taker matches were watchable, the McMahon-A-Mania was made tolerable by the insane heat and simple booking, and Guerrero/Show, whilst one of the stupidest booking decisions of the year, was passable. The only serious low point was the APA/Bashams match-and at least the right team went over and ~SHANIQUA~ returned.
Jeez, were any of you around during '95? Or even '99? Or last month for the insipid Unforgiven?
And Lo, The Urine Shall Flow Freely In The Aisles, As Small Children And Frail Old Ladies Flee Before The Brutality, The Might, The Sheer Viciousness...Of ~EVIL COACH~!
Oh don't get me wrong, there were a couple of moments that I enjoyed (Rey/Tajiri) ... but as an overall whole, there was no shock value ... you buy PPV's based off of the hype from the shows, not vice versa ...
Ralph Wiggum: "We're going to Africa; land of lions and giraffes and Santa and balloons ... "
Rey/Tajiri-solid but disappoining Benoit/A-Train-surprisingly solid APA/Bashams-how can you expect a match that was added an hour before the event to be any good? Gowen/Hardy-I was expecting a move Zach never did before like he said before but never happened. Average match. Vince/Steph-Crowd were into it. Doesn't matter if it wasen't a classic. It was still heart racing and thats what wrestlings all about. Cena/Angle-Very good match, doesn't matter if Cena lost, i don't think any less of him now. You have to step into the kayfabe world and look at it that way. Eddie/Show-Average for a Show match. Taker/Brock-I don't care what anyone says, match of the night for me.
I'm sorry but Shaniqua's "SWOLLEN" chest at the hands of Bradshaw made me happy. I know it is dumb and childish and sexist and all that good stuff but it honestly just works for me. Nothing was all that horrendous on the ppv and overall I thought it was ok. Now I can wait for Bradshaw to clothesline Stacy!!!
Let's be honest, guys, the majority of you were going to come on here and tear strips off of this show no matter what happened. I enjoyed it for the most part.
This is honestly so fucking dumb. Would I have paid for the show if I just wanted to rip it? This show was the drizzling shits to me because I hated it, not because I went in wanting to hate it.
Tajiri and Rey was the least of their encounters, and even though there were some cool spots, the psychology lead nowhere and the finish was annoying. This was also too short, too. The Bashams and APA match was god-awful, there was no heat for it at all. Benoit-Albert was solid, but Albert nearly paralyzing Benoit pretty much ruined it for me. Send him back to OVW until he learns how to not kill people. Angle-Cena was really fun, but Angle winning totally knocked the sails out of the crowd and the crowd I was with. Mcmahon-Mcmahon had a lot of heat, and I enjoyed the segment, but it seemed like it should have been on free TV, just like most of the rest of this show.
In the end, is Lesnar-Taker had been great, it would have saved the show, but it just wasn't. There were some badass spots (hanging triangle choke), but the whole match made no sense. The early (embarrasing) La Majistral by Taker showed that winning the belt was more important than the chain, but later he decided after he hit his finisher to go get the chain. Huh? A wrestling match is supposed to make sense.
As far as Eddy-Show goes, Eddy was buried so badly it really put a damper on the rest of the show for me. No matter how much cheating he does, he can't win. He hits his finisher, he can't win. Whatever, I'm sure Big Show will draw money *this time.*
Originally posted by MichromeBenoit-Albert was solid, but Albert nearly paralyzing Benoit pretty much ruined it for me. Send him back to OVW until he learns how to not kill people.
Ah, yes. This reminds me of how everyone was screaming for Angle to be sent down to OVW when he broke Holly's arm. Oh, wait -- that didn't happen, did it? I don't recall...
And in any case, who knows what happened? I have no problem assuming part of the fault was A-Train's, but how can you automatically absolve Benoit of all blame? Maybe he was doing a spot where he was going to slide down and do a sunset flip or something, and he screwed up. I don't know, and neither does anyone else here, but all the blame automatically goes to A-Train because you hate "hosses."
When was the last time A-Train "nearly paralyzed" someone? Huh, I don't recall that, either.
I thought it was pretty clear that Albert picked up Benoit, slipped and dropped him right on his fucking head. I watched it about 4 or 5 times and it's just about clear as day. It was also clear that Benoit was pretty pissed off about it too even at the end of the match, he said something to the referee.
Accidents happen, people make mistakes, but it seems to becoming a running theme on this board that no wrestler can be held responsible for anything or take any sort of blame or criticism without some "oh that's just internet bitter smarkiness shit shut up" type responses.
Originally posted by fuelinjectedI thought it was pretty clear that Albert picked up Benoit, slipped and dropped him right on his fucking head. I watched it about 4 or 5 times and it's just about clear as day. It was also clear that Benoit was pretty pissed off about it too even at the end of the match, he said something to the referee.
Well, Benoit being pissed off proves nothing, even if you're positive that he's honestly pissed off about something, since he could be pissed off at himself about it or anything else.
And, sure, it looks the same to me as it does to you, but maybe A-Train dropped him because Benoit was wriggling to much or something. Who knows?
And didn't Billy Gunn drop Benoit on his head recently as well? What's the common element there? BENOIT! It's pretty obious to me that Benoit just doesn't know how to take the move!
Originally posted by fuelinjectedAccidents happen, people make mistakes, but it seems to becoming a running theme on this board that no wrestler can be held responsible for anything or take any sort of blame or criticism without some "oh that's just internet bitter smarkiness shit shut up" type responses.
I have no problem with criticising wrestlers, or placing blame, or anything like that. I'm just raising questions about where the blame is being placed, and why it automatically goes to the guys that "the internet" hates so much.
And even if it's totally A-Train's fault, which it may well be, my original points, I think, were: 1) Nobody demands that someone like Angle be sent to OVW when an accident occurs, and 2) A-Train certainly has no track history that I'm aware of of hurting people in the ring. So why jump all over him now?
Originally posted by OldschoolheroLet's be honest, guys, the majority of you were going to come on here and tear strips off of this show no matter what happened
I think your being unfair to the group OSH. I remember back to Vengeance (last SD only PPV). There was tons of negativity going into that. From McMahon's being in TWO separate heavily hyped matches, Bar room brawls, Big Show in the main event, Billy Gunn in a match lol. But somehow Vengeance came threw with amazing tag title match WGTT v. Rey/Kidman, U.S title Eddie/Benoit. World title Kurt/Brock/Show which BShow didn't just get carried but contributed very well. And surprise good matches like Vince/Zach (hell I liked it) and Noble/Gunn... This PPV with the exception of Cena/Kurt, I didn't see any matches really stepping up and surprising me. With low standards going in it should be easy to match. This PPV just didn't (IMO). Plus the real lack of any decent build to these matches also effect the way I view them. I didn't see it live, got the tape this afternoon.
-Tajiri vs. Mysterio- Starting off the show with (on paper) the best match. Don't know if that's good or bad. They did that with the last SD PPV (Benoit/Eddie)... Started a little slow at the beginning. Rey goes for the westcoast pop but Tajiri counters with a pretty vicious powerbomb. 12 minute match that was good but didn't deliver the MOTN I was thinking it might.
-Benoit vs. A-Train- Pretty much on par on what I thought. These two just don't have good matches with each other. I seen good Albert/Brock matches but I don't remember a good Benoit/Albert match, and this wasnít' either. Very slow exchange early. The one image that will linger on is Albertís face after he dropped Benoit scary on the mat. Everything stopped for like 20 seconds (understandably). Nice tribute for winning in the sharpshooter especially since they been teasing that submission for a while.
-Gowen vs. Hardy- Zach hits a better moonsault with one leg then Matt does with two. Also that heilo Zach did to the outside on Matt was a sight to see! Good spotty wrestling and I'm a Zach fan so I'm not upset he won, but I am shocked that he won totally clean without any "miscommunication" especially when they introduced the Matt Hardy portrait on SD (was it even there?)... So the last 2 SD PPV we find out Vince>Shannon Moore> Zach> Matt. So does that make Stephanie tougher then Matt Hardy?
-Bashams vs. APA- With the exception of the last call from the second rope. Very elementary, it looked like they were just going through the motions and very boring... Shaniqua came back looking bigger. I so called it on the SD thread seeing she was out for 3 weeks and I said start the rumors, well no need to it's obvious
-Vince vs. Stephanie-This was garbage. I usually get caught in the crowd, not this time,(didn't really notice it) cause nothing was going on! Announcers putting over how Vince is brutalizing his daughter when she's not taking any hits or bumps. 10 minutes of nothing. Wow Steph gets a pop for attacking her dad with weak pipe shots (sorry not enough for me). Stephanie takes her "Hulk Hogan school of selling submissions". By gaining powers when in a submission each time the ref asks her if she gives up "no, NO, NOOOO!!!". Screw you, who do you think you are. To top this piece of crap we get a loophole finish with Stephanie never quitting during an I quit match. This was gawd awful... And hell I was very complementary of Vince/Zach and I thought Sable/Steph was bad but didn't hate it. This I hate every second of it. And I usually pay for my shows, but cause of this I am happy I didn't.
-Angle vs. Cena- This was the one damn match all night that stepped up. It was fantastic. The crowd was spectacular, the battle of Angle and Cena fans was special. The battle in the ring was just as great. Fantastic build throughout. Angle goes for a German to the outside (Whaaa?) but Cena blocks it and hits a DDT on the apron. Yikes Powerbomb into the turnbuckle Cena on Angle (Angle is just taking EVERYTHING). Kicking out of eachothers finisher. Finish comes with Cena tapping to Anklelock... Not a huge Cena fan but he and Angle did an amazing showing. Fans reaction was so similar to Bret/Austin it's not even funny. Cena cheat to win with chain then medals and the crowd cheers!. I don't hate the finish because before tonight I wasn't sold on Cena. I am now! Push him (even if he's not one of my personal fav).
-BigShow vs. Eddie- Back to the regularly scheduled crapfest. Noticeable Boring chant during Bigshows "impressive" offensive start. Eddie gets thrown around like a rag doll and gets some minor cheating in but can't get BigShow down. I liked Eddie's face when BigShow knocked the ref down... Not a good match, the results baffles me, someone like the Big Show doesn't need a secondary title. A giant carrying around secondary gold does nothing for the title or Big Show. Just stupid, so the U.S title is meant to be the "wrestling" title, yup for all of 3 months.
-Brock vs. Undertaker- Another subpar match. It had no flow for the 20 minutes they were on. This is just not a World title stuff (well what is these days in the WWE. Miss the WWF days when you know your World Titles are solid). What is memorable about this match in a couple of weeks. Undertaker's plauncha might be it. Lights shut off during the match. FBI run-in (they still have a thing with Taker?) and Vinceaference to get Brock the win... Maybe I'm a little hard on this match, but such a bad PPV I was wishing for a great ending to leave a good aftertaste and this match was far from great, it seemed longer then it had to and very plodding.
-Line of the Night: Cole "He outweighs her by 200 pounds"- on Vince -3Stars of the Night: 1)Angle. 2)Cena. 3)Gowen.
Angle/Cena saved this from being tied with Badd Blood for being worst PPV of the year. The emotion and matchup of Angle/Cena was off fantastic. Tajiri/Mysterio was good on talent alone. Iím still amazed by Zach Gowen but the rest of the card just pitiful... Should be in the bottom 3 WWE PPV's of the year.
Originally posted by ThreeLeggedWonderI'm sorry but Shaniqua's "SWOLLEN" chest at the hands of Bradshaw made me happy. I know it is dumb and childish and sexist and all that good stuff but it honestly just works for me.
I wonder if the WWE pays for the implants if a WWE diva wants to get them ?
"This just got a hell of a lot better." - Stifler, American Pie
I'll admit that I went into this show expecting it to be bad. I even wrote as much right here. Why did I buy it, then? I have no idea. I'm a fool.
Did that affect my opinion of the No Mercy? Probably. I'll admit that. But at the same time, had they chosen finishes that made sense, had the ringwork been more good than bad, had anything really clicked for me; I would have said so. Simple as that.
No Mercy was a BAD show. SmackDown had two months to prepare for this bad boy, yet yesterday's Raw was way more solid. And it was free.
Go back to a time when wrestling DIDN'T SUCK with a special 'retro' edition of Inside The Ropes!!!
This will only work if they use those huge overweight boxing gloves. Perhaps they could add another challenge where they put the girls in the fat sumo outfits. Aw hell, just put both in a shark tank and whichever one survives, she wins (I'm kidding...