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The W - Pro Wrestling - no love for the 7-11 wonderboy
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asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1367 days
Last activity: 276 days
#1 Posted on
From 411:

-RVD got some criticism following his match with Eddy Guerrero at Backlash. Many feel that he looked bad in the match and is getting in the habit of moving from "spot to spot" in his matches.


Okay, from what I've read and from Backlash reports, didn't JR basically voice this same criticism on air? What's with all the hatred towards RVD?? And with everything that's currently wrong with the WWF, why critize one of your more over guys???
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Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Springfield, Mo.

Since last post: 4404 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    What's with all the hatred towards RVD??
Hatred and constructive criticism (which, IMHO, is LONG overdue for RVD) are two different things.



--Jason Baldwin
Writer of Stuff About Comic Books
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#3 Posted on

    Originally posted by Papercuts!

      Originally posted by asteroidboy
      What's with all the hatred towards RVD??
    Hatred and constructive criticism (which, IMHO, is LONG overdue for RVD) are two different things.

Exactly. He should have taken notes from that UT/Austin match on how to properly construct a good solid match which will drive your fans into silence and cause insomniacs to sleep soundly. But JR would never say anything bad about those 2, since Austin is the Rattlesnake, and UT is, as we've oft been told, awesome.



"You used it to shove your miserable daughter down our throats week in and week out...not anymore!" - Ric Flair gives me hope, Raw 3/18/02

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eviljonhunt81
Pepperoni








Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 2926 days
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#4 Posted on
Was his match that bad? He was sort of sleepwalking through his matches on RAW for two or so weeks after that, but I think sending him down to HEAT woke him up, as this past Monday he put on a solid performance. I heard his HEAT match was good, too, but I missed it. I'm just wondering if this is criticism from a few eeks ago that is just being leaked to the internet, as he seems to have picked up his performance in the past week.



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Since: 17.2.02

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#5 Posted on
Okay. RVD's work is the problem? And yet they're pushing Hogan, Big Show, Bradshaw, and Mark Henry?

Please.
Papercuts!
Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Springfield, Mo.

Since last post: 4404 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by HBK 2002
    Okay. RVD's work is the problem? And yet they're pushing Hogan, Big Show, Bradshaw, and Mark Henry?

    Please.

Yeah, that high profile intercontinental title feud with Eddy sure is low key.

I think you're confusing "push" with "screen time." That's one of the things the split has done that was badly needed -- just about EVERY wrestler has a story of SOME KIND on each show. And if they don't right now, they will shortly. Heck, that's why we're seeing a lot of the developmental guys pop up. They've got more time and space to play with, letting some wrestlers who haven't had screen or mike time the chance to perform. The Godfather/Val Venis feud, for example, played out entirely on Jakked. Which is a really smart move in my book.



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BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

Since last post: 210 days
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#7 Posted on
"I think you're confusing 'push' with 'screen time.'"

That's something a lot of people seem to forget, when talking about the split. And I'm not defending the split, I'm just saying, please note the difference between the two.

And to be honest, his match was not all that bad. This is probably just another example of Vince lacking the ability to swallow his pride (and preferences) long enough to truly get behind a wrestler who isn't a hoss.
Parts Unknown
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

Since last post: 4 days
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#8 Posted on
I have never once been bored during an RVD match. You can say, "Oh well, we all said the same thing about the Hardyz, but after 4 million matches identitical to each other, we woke up." But I think RVD has more ability, and in that regard, more staying power than the Hardyz. He keeps busting out new moves, like the thingie where he tosses a guy and drop-kicks him in midair. That was impressive. Have the Hardyz done anything new in like three years?
RVD is always entertaining and exciting, IMHO, unlike Austin who bores the hell out of me but you're right he's THE RATTLESNAKE RATTLESNAKE STONE COLD STONE COLD RATTLESNAKE BAH GAWD TOUGHEST SOB STONE COLD so he always gets props.
RVD may not have delivered with Eddie as we had wished, but just a couple of weeks before he put on a match-of-the-year candidate with Undertaker. I was on the edge of my seat.



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asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1367 days
Last activity: 276 days
#9 Posted on
I'm sure that RVD can stand some criticism, as many workers can, but he's still consistently entertaining. I don't like a lot of the kickboxing stuff, but at least it's a break from the chop/punch transitions.

It just seems like it's one step forward, two steps back with that guy. They put him in the main event at No Mercy, then bury him. They give him the IC belt and he jobs it in a month. And JR does a poor job of masking his contempt for him when he calls his matches. The guy's doing crazy shit that pops the crowd and JR's like, "That unorthodox style!" before going back to talking about Austin. It doesn't make sense.

I'm sounding like an RVD-conspiracy mark, which I'm not, but they've clearly not gotten behind him, even though the fan support is there.
BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

Since last post: 210 days
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#10 Posted on
"I have never once been bored during an RVD match. You can say, "Oh well, we all said the same thing about the Hardyz, but after 4 million matches identitical to each other, we woke up." But I think RVD has more ability, and in that regard, more staying power than the Hardyz. He keeps busting out new moves, like the thingie where he tosses a guy and drop-kicks him in midair. That was impressive. Have the Hardyz done anything new in like three years?"

I couldn't agree more. The Hardys DON'T have the talent to actually work a match, we all saw that clearly in the Jeff/Matt debacle match. All they can do is hit spots. RVD, on the other hand, CAN work matches. It just happens that his style isn't the normal slugging big-man style, so Vince and co. are loathe to get behind him.

"unlike Austin who bores the hell out of me"

Oh really? Sure, he bores the hell out of you now, becaue he's as disgusted at the product as we are. Go back and watch his stuff with Bret, any beginning portion of Austin/McMahon, his Alliance heel turn. ALL of those were pure gold, and entertaining to a fault (What?).

"I'm sounding like an RVD-conspiracy mark, which I'm not, but they've clearly not gotten behind him, even though the fan support is there."

Exactly. It's hard not to sound like a conspiracy-monger when crap like this happens.


asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1367 days
Last activity: 276 days
#11 Posted on
Oh, I think Stone Cold can be a jewel, for all those reasons. His heel work this last year was a riot. But he's right back into his tough SOB schtik. Like this Big Show/Flair handicap match... JR's like, "BY GAWD, Austin'll be destroyed!!" So we get another week of Austin's gonna be in for the fight of his life, there's no way he can win, blah blah blah blah... But, c'mon. Don't insult us like that. Did anyone think Hogan was gonna lose in 'Mania 7? Same thing here. I hope Scott Hall showed Flair and Show how to link arms, so they can take a double-stunner.



(edited by asteroidboy on 9.5.02 1233)
Spiraling_Shape
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#12 Posted on
sending him down to HEAT

Actually, he`s worked Heat & Raw for the past two weeks in a row.



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sergeial
Boerewors








Since: 27.2.02
From: Minneapolis

Since last post: 2975 days
Last activity: 2892 days
#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    Okay, from what I've read and from Backlash reports, didn't JR basically voice this same criticism on air?


JR said that "this match has been all offense, with no time to work on a particular body part" or something like that in the middle of the match. Up to that point it had been true, but then Eddie slowed the pace and started working on RVD's back with both high-impact moves and submission holds. It might have been nice if JR had said something like, "Boy, I take back what I said, Eddie sure is working on RVD's back, now." But when he said it it was true, and stated in such a way that the casual fan wouldn't have even taken it as criticism.

I don't think that taking the IC title off of RVD is really a depush. A hot feud with someone the caliber of Eddie is worth more to RVD right now than the belt, and losing it was the only way to make the feud last.

sergei



"I tear my quadracep all the time! I tore it this morning, I'm fine!"-- Kurt Angle
HBK 2002
Linguica








Since: 17.2.02

Since last post: 4267 days
Last activity: 4260 days
#14 Posted on

    Originally posted by Papercuts!

      Originally posted by HBK 2002
      Okay. RVD's work is the problem? And yet they're pushing Hogan, Big Show, Bradshaw, and Mark Henry?

      Please.

    Yeah, that high profile intercontinental title feud with Eddy sure is low key.

    I think you're confusing "push" with "screen time."



How so?? Hogan is the champion. Big Show and Bradshaw are in Main Event programs. Until tonight, they were pushing Henry pretty hard with vignettes, promo time, and squash matches.

When was the last time RVD has had a vignette, backstage skit, or promo time? And a high profile feud with Eddie Guerrero? You wouldn't know it by watching Raw. RVD hasn't had anything to say about Guerrero, the IC title, or getting it back. If you hadn't been watching for the last month, you wouldn't know that RVD had any heat with Guerrero at all. You wouldn't know that RVD had any direction to his character, any motivation for his actions, or, in wrestling lingo, any push.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1367 days
Last activity: 276 days
#15 Posted on
Yeah, I wouldn't call his feud with Eddie "high profile." More like a curtain-jerking series of matches with absolutely no buildup, aside from Eddie's ONE interview wiht Terri a few RAWs back. For Jim Ross to write that RVD is a main event talent, but he wants to hear him "talk more" is very disingenuous. If they want to hear him talk more, give him some promo time!
Kawshen
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Bronx, NY

Since last post: 1897 days
Last activity: 157 days
AIM:  
#16 Posted on
I have no issues with the Eddie/RVD program with the exception that they hotshotted the IC Title to Eddie on his first match back.

Other than that - no real complaints.




Zero
Loukanika








Since: 3.5.02
From: Buffalo, NY

Since last post: 4486 days
Last activity: 4486 days
AIM:  
#17 Posted on
Well, they're probably not giving RVD any mic time because he's bad on the mic. He's not Matt Hardy or Lita level of bad, but he is down there. Zero wonders just how many takes they had to do for that 7-11 commercial.

As for this "getting bored with RVD matches", Zero finds it slightly surpising to hear people say that they have never been bored with an RVD match. RVD matches have been putting Zero to sleep since the start of Jericho's Undisputed Heavyweight championship reign. Very formulaic.

And BoromirMark, you said that RVD keeps busting out with new moves. What are these new moves you speak of? Zero has yet to see anything new.

But taking this into perspective, why critize RVD, when you have the kingpin of repetition, Rikishi, doing the same simplistic garbage for what...years now?

(edited by Zero on 9.5.02 2007)
Zero™: The Random Jackass
sergeial
Boerewors








Since: 27.2.02
From: Minneapolis

Since last post: 2975 days
Last activity: 2892 days
#18 Posted on

    Originally posted by Zero
    And BoromirMark, you said that RVD keeps busting out with new moves. What are these new moves you speak of? Zero has yet to see anything new.


Well, he did give an example immediately after saying that: "like the thingie where he tosses a guy and drop-kicks him in midair." It's not a technical move name or anything, but I don't know what to call half the stuff RVD does either.

It wasn't that long ago that he introduced the "reverse enzuigiri". The announcers call it the stepover heel kick, but I prefer reverse enzuigiri, because it moves from you catching your opponents foot to kicking *them* in the head, instead of *getting* kicked in the head. I'd say he over-uses it now, but I marked out when he first introduced it, because the enzuigiri was so predictable a result anytime a wrestler caught an opponent's kick before that.

Then there's the sequence he started doing recently where he rolls his opponent from one corner to the middle of the ring, rolls on to the opposite corner, then does a flying move (split-leg moonsault?) back onto his opponent. I've heard it called a "Finlay (something)". Fit Finlay used to do it, apparently.

The "Rolling Thunder" sucks, though.

sergei



"I tear my quadracep all the time! I tore it this morning, I'm fine!"-- Kurt Angle
El Pescado
Kolbasz








Since: 3.1.02
From: Toms River, NJ

Since last post: 1111 days
Last activity: 934 days
AIM:  
#19 Posted on

    Originally posted by Zero
    Well, they're probably not giving RVD any mic time because he's bad on the mic. He's not Matt Hardy or Lita level of bad, but he is down there.



You want an example of RVD's mic skills? Go buy the Wrestlemania X8 DVD and check out his interview in the extras. Not only does he act like a complete tool, but he looks and sounds incredibly feminine. Don't get the wrong idea, I like RVD, it's just that he really does have poor mic skills.



"In a related note, millions of gamers have just shit their pants."
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HBK 2002
Linguica








Since: 17.2.02

Since last post: 4267 days
Last activity: 4260 days
#20 Posted on
I totally disagree about RVD on the mike. His character is different, and, therefore, his interviews are different. He's not an intense guy like Triple-H, and he's not a smart ass like Edge. He's a laid back guy who's cool with whatever comes his way. I think his character is pretty effective, really. And it connects with the 16-20 year old crowd a lot more than people realize.

When RVD was talking during his mini-feud with Austin, people didn't stop popping for him. They popped more for him.
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