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The W - Sports that aren't Baseball, Football, Basketball, or Hockey - Nice job, NASCAR! (NOT.)
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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.88
I understand that there needs to be consistency when you are applying punishments for certain actions, but Johnny Sauter cursing in a fit of anger right after a crash (in a race shortly after the drivers were warned about their language) and Dale Jr. letting a curse word slip out in a celebratory post-race interview do NOT deserve the same punishment when that punishment involves the removal of points. ESPECIALLY that given the current Chase for the Championship format, Dale Jr's 25 points are about a MILLION TIMES more valuable than Johnny (not in the Chase and not even in the #30 car anymore) Sauter's 25 points were.

I know they were probably concerned that they would hear cries of favoritism (and rightly so, since it was Dale Jr. involved) but to dock ANYBODY points for letting a "shit" slip into their celebratory postrace interview is pretty damn ridiculous.

(The EA Sports 500 was AWESOME, though.)



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Since: 11.12.01
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.56

So you can't swear while driving a car around in a circle anymore? Huh.




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DJ FrostyFreeze
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

No no no, you can still swear IN the car all you want, just not after the driving in a circle 500 times is over.



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Spaceman Spiff
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Since: 2.1.02
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
(deleted by CRZ on 6.10.04 0350)
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.89
    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    No no no, you can still swear IN the car all you want, just not after the driving in a circle 500 times is over.


1. Thanks to new-fangled innovations in TV coverage, a driver can possibly have his radio broadcasts relayed over the TV LIVE, so you CAN get in trouble for swearing IN the car.

2. If you knew anything about anything, you know they don't have any tracks that are circles, and they HARDLY ever go around 500 times.



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bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    I understand that there needs to be consistency when you are applying punishments for certain actions, but Johnny Sauter cursing in a fit of anger right after a crash (in a race shortly after the drivers were warned about their language) and Dale Jr. letting a curse word slip out in a celebratory post-race interview do NOT deserve the same punishment when that punishment involves the removal of points. ESPECIALLY that given the current Chase for the Championship format, Dale Jr's 25 points are about a MILLION TIMES more valuable than Johnny (not in the Chase and not even in the #30 car anymore) Sauter's 25 points were.
    I know they were probably concerned that they would hear cries of favoritism (and rightly so, since it was Dale Jr. involved) but to dock ANYBODY points for letting a "shit" slip into their celebratory postrace interview is pretty damn ridiculous.


If you can't do the time, don't do the crime!

Junior knew the rules and he violated them, case closed. As far as I can see, Sauter has a much better argument than Junior. Sauter was angry after getting taken out by some sloppy driving. At that point, venting your feelings using language, expletives and epithets, that are generally considered negative is an understandable reaction. Junior's use of an excretory epithet in a jubilant situation is less excusable or explicable. Why use negatively connotated language in order to celebrate?

Why is it ridiculous for NASCAR to expect their drivers to act and speak in a way that won't offend the casual viewer and penalize said drivers when they act in an offensive manner? Every other driver who's won this year has managed to celebrate victory without profanity, why can't Junior? You may think it is a ridiculous decision, but those are the rules that everyone knew and accepted at the beginning of the season. Whining about them now is akin to my four year old whining when he gets told that he can't have dessert because he didn't finish his dinner, it just shows that you don't yet understand that actions have consequences.

Finally, so what if Junior's points are "more valuable"? Unless you're arguing that the rules don't apply to the names in the same way that they do to the nobodies, that argument is irrelevant. If it was a violation at the beginning of the year with Sauter and in the middle of the year with Ron Hornaday Jr., then it is a violation with Junior at the end of the year.

Tim



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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.89
I guess my only points are that (1) when Sauter & Hornaday were fined and docked points, cursing had been made a big issue by Mike Helton and they were in violation right after that, and (2) Jamie McMurray was fined 25 points for an ILLEGAL CAR, and Dale Jr. was fined 25 points for CURSING. So according to NASCAR, cursing is as bad as cheating.



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Tony Stewart
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Since: 6.6.04

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.81
Docking 25 points for such a minor infraction is just wrong. The NBA doesn't take points off the board when Shaq goes into a post game tirade, so why should NASCAR take points off the board for drivers doing the same. If Junior loses by 25 points or less it's going to tarnish an already shaky champion. You can purposely cause wrecks for people in the Chase to get caught up in and endanger lives in one fell swoop and get off easier than a slip of the tongue. An escalating fine would make much more sense. You can't be taking points off the board for an off the track infraction.



orangeman
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Since: 21.8.04
From: ...that would be telling

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.80
If Junior reacted in the extreme to this and said not a single word for the rest of year, skipped press conferences and such, would NASCAR fine him for that? I know his sponsors wouldn't be thrilled, but does NASCAR mandate some level of interaction or availability with the media like other sports do in some situations?



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messenoir
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Since: 20.2.02
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.89
The NBA should fine Shaq for his tirades. In fact, they should fine him everytime he insults someone in a comment having nothing to do with the Orlando Magic.

And I for one would love to watch TV without dealing with consistent swear words. There is no need for them anywhere, and they do not just slip out unless you just wanted to swear in the first place.
fuelinjected
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Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89

    Why is it ridiculous for NASCAR to expect their drivers to act and speak in a way that won't offend the casual viewer and penalize said drivers when they act in an offensive manner? Every other driver who's won this year has managed to celebrate victory without profanity, why can't Junior? You may think it is a ridiculous decision, but those are the rules that everyone knew and accepted at the beginning of the season. Whining about them now is akin to my four year old whining when he gets told that he can't have dessert because he didn't finish his dinner, it just shows that you don't yet understand that actions have consequences.


The guy is racing around a track at a speed where he could possibly die in an accident. The adrenaline is pumping to the max, they shove a microphone in his face and he says SHIT. THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!

ITS AUTO RACING! THEY'RE RACING VEHICLES AT EXTREME SPEEDS IN DANGER OF CRASHING AND DIEING! But by god, don't let the kids hear the word 'shit', they might get the wrong idea.



"When did they pass a law that says the people who make my sandwich have to be wearing gloves? I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want glove residue all over my food; it's not sanitary. Who knows where these gloves have been?" - George Carlin
Merc
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Brisbane, Australia

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.06
    Originally posted by bash91
    Junior's use of an excretory epithet in a jubilant situation is less excusable or explicable.

    ..Why is it ridiculous for NASCAR to expect their drivers to act and speak in a way that won't offend the casual viewer and penalize said drivers when they act in an offensive manner?

I think its ridiculous for anybody to get bent out of shape over someone saying "shit". I think its ridiculous to lose championship points over it. If your going to punish it, a fine would seem to be the worst it should get. If you went to court on an offensive language charge for saying "shit" I'd like your chances of getting off. Like it or not shit is normal everyday language.
BigVitoMark
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Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.13
I'm far from a NASCAR fan, but this is right up there with the NFL fining Jon Kitna for his cross hat last season. As Tony Stewart already said, the other sports don't do anything that influences the outcome of their events for such minor infractions. If Terrell Owens signs the ball after scoring a touchdown the league fines him, they don't take the six points off the board.

I understand NASCAR trying to keep their guys looking respectable. I realize they've made amazing advances in popularity over the past ten years and they don't wanna jeopardize it by seeing their stars develop a bad image. What they need to realize, though, is that stupid decisions made in offices effectively altering the results of their big races is going to anger more people than an accidental expletive after the race is over. If Earnhardt had slashed another guy's tires and actually, ya know, impacted the outcome of the race with his actions, then fine, do whatever you want to him. This, however, is absurd.



Screw Ricky
bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
    Originally posted by Tony Stewart
    Docking 25 points for such a minor infraction is just wrong. The NBA doesn't take points off the board when Shaq goes into a post game tirade, so why should NASCAR take points off the board for drivers doing the same. If Junior loses by 25 points or less it's going to tarnish an already shaky champion. You can purposely cause wrecks for people in the Chase to get caught up in and endanger lives in one fell swoop and get off easier than a slip of the tongue. An escalating fine would make much more sense. You can't be taking points off the board for an off the track infraction.


The NBA example, or any other sport you want to mention, is irrelevant to this issue. NASCAR has taken points away for off track behavior in the past. Plus, Mike Shelton made it perfectly clear that point loss and a fine was the way that this type of situation would be handled with the way the Sauter and Hornaday episodes were addressed. If Junior loses the championship because of this, so be it. He knew the rules and the penalties and opted to not follow the rules and so got penalized. Maybe next time he'll manage to think before he speaks.

    Originally posted by bash91
    Every other driver who's won this year has managed to celebrate victory without profanity, why can't Junior?

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    The guy is racing around a track at a speed where he could possibly die in an accident. The adrenaline is pumping to the max, they shove a microphone in his face and he says SHIT. THE WORLD IS GOING TO END!
    ITS AUTO RACING! THEY'RE RACING VEHICLES AT EXTREME SPEEDS IN DANGER OF CRASHING AND DIEING! But by god, don't let the kids hear the word 'shit', they might get the wrong idea.


Huh, so everyone else is able to be polite but we should excuse this idiot because "IT'S AUTO RACING!", unlike what all the other drivers have been doing all year long. Sorry, if everyone else has been able to do it all season long after winning an AUTO RACE, it's not unreasonable to expect Junior to do so as well.

    Originally posted by merc
    I think its ridiculous for anybody to get bent out of shape over someone saying "shit". I think its ridiculous to lose championship points over it. If your going to punish it, a fine would seem to be the worst it should get. If you went to court on an offensive language charge for saying "shit" I'd like your chances of getting off. Like it or not shit is normal everyday language.


Why is it ridiculous to want to eliminate, or at least slow, the coarsening and cheapening of society? Profanity is not yet part of normal, polite, everyday life, otherwise we'd hear in more places. For example, if profanity is just normal and the way people speak, why didn't I hear Dick Cheney call John Edwards a bleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep and Edwards retort that Cheney is actually a blooooooooooooop? Why was everyone surprised when Cheney did curse in a different venue? Why don't my students use profanity in their speeches and their answers to my questions? Why don't my daughter's teachers swear at her and her classmates when they make a mistake on their spelling test?

Maybe because it is understood that, in polite society, that type of language is inappropriate and unacceptable. While you would be acquitted if charges were brought against you for that type of language, that doesn't make it right. Just because we CAN do something, doesn't mean that it is right, or proper, or acceptable.

    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    I understand NASCAR trying to keep their guys looking respectable. I realize they've made amazing advances in popularity over the past ten years and they don't wanna jeopardize it by seeing their stars develop a bad image. What they need to realize, though, is that stupid decisions made in offices effectively altering the results of their big races is going to anger more people than an accidental expletive after the race is over.


And if they don't penalize Junior here, they throw everything they've done out the window because they are effectively saying that some people are more equal than others. "We know that we punished those other guys, but they are jobbers. This is JUNIOR, we can't punish him because he's JUNIOR and the fans like him." Expecting someone to follow the rules and penalizing them when they don't is not a stupid decision.

Tim



People who say they don't "play politics" merely play politics badly. -- David Drake
Merc
Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Brisbane, Australia

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.06
    Originally posted by bash91
    Profanity is not yet part of normal, polite, everyday life, otherwise we'd hear in more places.
    Maybe because it is understood that, in polite society, that type of language is inappropriate and unacceptable.
    Tim


I hear profanity in plenty of places already, at work, on the bus, in a supermarket. Formal settings, like school, church a national debate etc are quite different, thats all about presenting our best. That's why you won't hear Cheney call Edwards a stupid MF (at least not in public )
I'm not arguing that profanity is acceptable across the board, I cringe myself when some high school kid drops F bombs left right and centre on a bus full of pensioners. I will state that if shit is a profanity, its gotta be at the very low end of the scale.
Crimedog
Boerewors








Since: 28.3.02
From: Ohio

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
The biggest problem is that, as has already been said, they're equating a swear word with something that impacts the integrity of the sport. It would be kind of like if Pedro Martinez let an F-bomb fly and baseball suspended him for the same length of time that someone got suspended for doctoring the ball.

What's really upsetting a lot of the hard-core race fans _ myself included _ is that NASCAR's new push to make itself family-friendly is cutting all the color out of the sport. Heck, when I was growing up _ and I'm only 27 _ drivers slugged it out in the garage on a regular basis and pretty much said whatever was on their minds. It was entertaining because you got to see much more of their personality than you do now.

It's great that NASCAR's becoming more of a big-time sport, but I don't want it to turn every driver into Matt Kenseth. The sport was built on guys like Dale Earnhardt, the Allisons, Cale Yarborough, David Pearson, Richard Petty and Darrell Waltrip. Guys that were entertaining both during the race and in everyday life. Hell, Yarborough and the Allison brothers (Donnie and Bobby) had a fist fight ON THE TRACK at the end of the 1979 Dayton 500. If any of them had lost points for letting a cuss word slip, they probably would have decked the nearest official.
Merc
Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Brisbane, Australia

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.06
    Originally posted by Crimedog
    It was entertaining because you got to see much more of their personality than you do now.



I couldn't agree more with that. I don't know alot about NASCAR, but in other sports, even in Australia, there is such a push for every player, team, whatever to be totally media savvy and non threatening. There's only so many clean cut all American boys to go around. If everyone was like a sports playing Matt Laurer(sp?) it would get old, fast. I can't believe the NFL uniform regulations for one, especially the decal deal. There's a point where sports surely have to realise that maybe more regulation is not necessarily better.
BigVitoMark
Lap cheong








Since: 10.8.02
From: Queen's University, Canada

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.14
    Originally posted by bash91
    And if they don't penalize Junior here, they throw everything they've done out the window because they are effectively saying that some people are more equal than others. "We know that we punished those other guys, but they are jobbers. This is JUNIOR, we can't punish him because he's JUNIOR and the fans like him." Expecting someone to follow the rules and penalizing them when they don't is not a stupid decision.

    Tim


No, not at all. I'm not saying it was wrong because it was Earnhardt being penalized, I'm saying it's wrong because it's a stupid penalty for a minor offense. I don't care if this happened to the worst driver on the circuit, you don't alter a guy's result. If he did something wrong, fine him. If he did something really wrong, suspend him, regardless of who it is. Tinkering with results should never be an option for any legitimate sport.



Screw Ricky
Corajudo
Frankfurter








Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.84
No, not at all. I'm not saying it was wrong because it was Earnhardt being penalized, I'm saying it's wrong because it's a stupid penalty for a minor offense. I don't care if this happened to the worst driver on the circuit, you don't alter a guy's result. If he did something wrong, fine him. If he did something really wrong, suspend him, regardless of who it is. Tinkering with results should never be an option for any legitimate sport.

The problem is that the precedent has been set. And, the precedent includes the loss of 25 points. Period. If NASCAR wants to change the precedent, they should announce a change and then follow it from that point on. Besides, if you guys are screaming about deducting 25 points, then you'd really be upset about him being suspended.

Also, I don't buy that he should be excused because he was excited and it's dangerous. I watch as much auto racing as I possibly can, and I have never seen a race winner react by dropping s-bombs of f-bombs or any other kind of bombs. (being wrecked or getting caught up in someone else's wreck or mistake is another thing but still incredibly rare). The fact is that the drivers know what is proper and improper behavior. If they cannot uphold that, then they need to accept the consequences or find another line of work.

Lastly, the whole thing about it's not ok to swear on a bus full of old people (or children, I would hope), but it's ok to swear on tv is ridiculous. Nothing is worse than having to explain something offensive to a child because some idiot didn't know or refused to follow proper decorum.

In short, I'm in complete agreement with Tim/bash91..
kazhayashi81
Potato korv








Since: 17.6.02
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.95
    Originally posted by BigVitoMark
    I'm far from a NASCAR fan, but this is right up there with the NFL fining Jon Kitna for his cross hat last season. As Tony Stewart already said, the other sports don't do anything that influences the outcome of their events for such minor infractions. If Terrell Owens signs the ball after scoring a touchdown the league fines him, they don't take the six points off the board.


Although I would LOVE IT if they did. That is a great idea. Maybe even starting a thread in the football-forum worthy.
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