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The W - Current Events & Politics - Nice choice of contractor Dubya!
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IsaacYankem
Polska kielbasa








Since: 4.3.03
From: Cybertron

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#1 Posted on
Last week the Bush administration gave Bechtel the first big Iraqi reconstruction contract, a prized $680 million deal over 18 months that puts Bechtel in the driver's seat for the long-term reconstruction of the country, which could cost $100 billion or more.
Bechtel essentially was given a license to make money. And that license was granted in a closed-door process that was restricted to a handful of politically connected American companies.

Read this enlightenining article on Bechtel's less than sterling track record..

http://www.boston.com/globe/metro/packages/bechtel/







"50 camera shots to the head cannot compare to one heart to heart talk with Steve Blackman expounding the virtues of Quik Lime in the use of disposing of human remains!!" - Al Snow, Raw, July 17, 2000
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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1182 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Just remember; Bechtel is one of the most politically connceted companies in the world. They've got both sides in their pocket and they know it.




Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#3 Posted on
Personally, I think this whole exercise is pointless. First Haliburton and now this-

As long as the damned country gets rebuilt, who CARES who does it? You all act as if Americans will not get jobs out of this, during a down economy, that our industry will not benefit from this-

Time to put those sour grapes away....





Still on the Shelf #4
Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#4 Posted on
The coyote goes...So long as they build the petting zoo and the smoothie shop, I'm down.



I own a Gamecube, and I own Eternal Darkness.
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#5 Posted on
Pool, being the good capitalist that you are though, you should be prizing efficency over connection. If companies that will waste the TAXPAYER'S dollar are getting these despite possibly not being the best choice, doesn't that negatively impact all of us?



"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it." - Robert E. Lee

NWA:TNA - a 100% HHH-free zone.
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#6 Posted on

    Originally posted by spf2119
    Pool, being the good capitalist that you are though, you should be prizing efficency over connection. If companies that will waste the TAXPAYER'S dollar are getting these despite possibly not being the best choice, doesn't that negatively impact all of us?

Yes it does. You are right! But in the case of Haliburton, they, quitre frankly, are the best company for the job, and Democrats "from sea to shining sea" are calling foul. Yeah, Haliburton has connections, but they are also the best choice for the job.

Bechtel, on the other hand, is a classic example of a contractor. I do not agree that their practices are on the up and up, hell, I think there is a great deal of corruption in the way that they, and other companies, bilk the taxpayer. We all know about the "$50,000 hammer."

While I agree that the manner in which the federal government contracts out to private industry needs to be looked at (the defense industry especially), the fact is that Iraqis need power and water. They need infastructure NOW. They do not need our petty bickering over who has who in their pockets.

Get the companies there, rebuild their cities, and then take a look at the checks and balances for things like this.

No, I don't like the corperate backscratching that goes on between private industry and the government (Whether and Elephant or an Ass is in the White House). But why choose NOW to make the loudest noise about it? Lives are at stake now. Someone was going to get this contract, and since all companies who have the capability of doing the work are likely as corrupt as Bechtel, I see no point in holding the work up to point fingers.

It is a separate problem. Deal with it separately.





Still on the Shelf #5
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

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#7 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy
    But why choose NOW to make the loudest noise about it? Lives are at stake now.


Lives have been at stake in this since day one, Pool-Boy. And I don't know where you've been looking, but people have been talking about the conflict of interest between the current administration and Halliburton, et al for a hell of a lot longer than just the last couple of months.

If they'd wanted to be on the up-and-up, all they had to do was follow the rules. Let the UN decide if a war was needed. Let the UN pick who got to reconstruct afterward. Let the UN do the job it was created for. By going all vigilante and pushing forward anyway, they left themselves wide open to this sort of criticism.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka

"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#8 Posted on
The reason to do it now is because this is going to be one of the biggest goldmines ever. Whomever we put in Iraq with our blessing is going to own that country for the foreseeable future. If we cannot now take a little time to examine who we give MASSIVE deals to, deals where even a 1% difference in efficiency will cost YOU and I $1 billion dollars, then when can we look at it. One of the reasons I never posted my lefty complaint about Haliburton is because I read some articles I thought were fairly objective that showed they were probably the best qualified company for the job, so I figured "okay, bad process, okay result." Here I don't have that same reassured feeling. So for once I want to be a good conservative like I used to be and demand that government not just throw money at a problem but demand strict accountability and rigorous investigation before parting with OUR money.



"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it." - Robert E. Lee

NWA:TNA - a 100% HHH-free zone.
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1182 days
Last activity: 979 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    And I don't know where you've been looking, but people have been talking about the conflict of interest between the current administration and Halliburton, et al for a hell of a lot longer than just the last couple of months.

Why does the anti-Bush crowd pretend that there has never been a conflict of interest in any Democratic administration? Does Tyson Chicken ring a bell?


    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    If they'd wanted to be on the up-and-up, all they had to do was follow the rules. Let the UN decide if a war was needed. Let the UN pick who got to reconstruct afterward. Let the UN do the job it was created for. By going all vigilante and pushing forward anyway, they left themselves wide open to this sort of criticism.

Wouldn't that have required for the UN to actually do the job it was created for? Not sit on the sidelines and pretend that they were the League of Nations and Iraq was Manchuria?




calvinh0560
Boudin rouge








Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

Since last post: 473 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Because we all know that there was NO WRONG DOING at all with the UN Oil for Food program.
godking
Chourico








Since: 20.10.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 3818 days
Last activity: 3764 days
#11 Posted on
Why does the anti-Bush crowd pretend that there has never been a conflict of interest in any Democratic administration?

Why does what the Clinton administration did have anything to do with it? I don't think particularly highly of Clinton's ethics myself, but they're completely besides the point. We're talking about the ethical transgressions of the Bush administration. Saying "Clinton did this" isn't even close to being an argument - it's the same old same old attempt to try and make the right-wing side of the government look less corrupt and repugnant by tarring their political opponents with the same brush rather than actually address the problem at hand.

In any case, the Tyson Chicken mini-scandal simply pales in comparison to the ongoing and varied outrages of the Bush administration. They've let energy companies write their energy policy, for crissake.

Wouldn't that have required for the UN to actually do the job it was created for? Not sit on the sidelines and pretend that they were the League of Nations and Iraq was Manchuria?

Not a good comparison, given that Iraq didn't actually invade anybody to draw its ire.

The UN wanted to inspect further, because they couldn't find any significant WMDs, and if regime change was going to be forced in Iraq - and don't kid yourself for a second, most of the world would have been perfectly happy to see Hussein out on his ass if it could have been done within the confines of international law, which is what the UN was pretty obviously trying to do - they needed that proof.

Now that the war is over, the US - which claimed over and over it knew exactly where all the WMDs were and that Hans Blix was a retard because he couldn't find them - can't find any significant WMDs and is forced to claim that maybe the Iraqis destroyed them all to make the US look bad or maybe they moved them all to Syria, as opposed to using them in the recent war or not having them at all.
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3662 days
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#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by Grimis
    Why does the anti-Bush crowd pretend that there has never been a conflict of interest in any Democratic administration?


Why does the pro-Bush crowd pretend that "everyone else does it" is a valid reason to do anything?

It was just as wrong then as it is now. Except, of course, that nobody went to war over Tyson Chicken.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka

"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
PalpatineW
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.44
No, no, Nate... we went to war because of a joint conspiracy of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission.

Why isn't anyone complaining that Senator Dianne Feinstein's husband has got some sweet contracting deals out of this whole thing?

And...


    Originally Posted by spf
    So for once I want to be a good conservative like I used to be and demand that government not just throw money at a problem but demand strict accountability and rigorous investigation before parting with OUR money.


As a liberal, you no longer believe in accountability, or, y'know, JUSTIFYING taking my money?

    Originally Posted by calvin
    Because we all know that there was NO WRONG DOING at all with the UN Oil for Food program.


I've heard in a few places that the UN was actually taking a commission on Iraqi oil sales, and the whole thing was a bit of a cartel between the French, Russians and others. That's why it gets me when people talk about "no blood for oil." The motto of every other country seems to be, "No blood, for oil."

(edited by PalpatineW on 23.4.03 2346)

"May God bless our country and all who defend her."

George W. Bush, 3/19/03
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3662 days
Last activity: 3131 days
AIM:  
#14 Posted on

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    No, no, Nate... we went to war because of a joint conspiracy of the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission.


See, you're COMPLETELY ignoring the clear evidence of the shadowy fingers of the Freemasons, not to mention all the claims of black helicopters, and missing minutes experienced by reporters in the White House press room.

This is big, Scully... real big.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka

"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1182 days
Last activity: 979 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by Nate The Snake
    Why does the pro-Bush crowd pretend that "everyone else does it" is a valid reason to do anything?

I'm not. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of it all. Remember, all of the companies involved have their hand in the Democrat and Republican cookie jars...




messenoir
Summer sausage








Since: 20.2.02
From: Columbia, MO

Since last post: 459 days
Last activity: 325 days
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#16 Posted on
Why does each side pretend there's not hypocricy on the other side?

That still doesn't excuse any hypocricy you yourself (general you) might practice.

(edited by messenoir on 24.4.03 1155)
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 17 days
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#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    And...


      Originally Posted by spf
      So for once I want to be a good conservative like I used to be and demand that government not just throw money at a problem but demand strict accountability and rigorous investigation before parting with OUR money.


    As a liberal, you no longer believe in accountability, or, y'know, JUSTIFYING taking my money?


Nah, I just wanted to try and put the argument in terms that might be more palatable to even the most hard core right winger. Nowadays as a liberal I believe not everything can be adequately described in a cost-benefit analysis. But in this case I'll make an exception if it will mean someone putting the brakes on the gravy train. And if that means slowing down the cash flow into Mr. Feinstein's pockets, I am all for that as well.



"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it." - Robert E. Lee

NWA:TNA - Alexis and Trinity take MAD bumps.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1342 days
Last activity: 250 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
So, you guys mean to tell me that an American company stands to make billions of dollars paid for with the blood of duped soldiers?

And this was approved by a president who is the all-time record holder for most corporate campaign donations?

A president who allowed convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts? Who's biggest campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history?

A president with the richest cabinet in history?

Who presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world?

Who presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have?

Next, you're gonna tell me that the first thing our special forces secured in Iraq was the oil fields.

I'm shocked and appalled.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport."
"Was he no-selling?"
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1182 days
Last activity: 979 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    So, you guys mean to tell me that an American company stands to make billions of dollars paid for with the blood of duped soldiers?

Yes
    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    And this was approved by a president who is the all-time record holder for most corporate campaign donations?

Gore had nothing to sneeze at.
    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    A president who allowed convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts?

AS opposed to Clinton putting them in the cabinet?

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    A president with the richest cabinet in history?
Didn't anybody ever tell you jealousy gets you no where

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    Who presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world
Remember; the behavior in Enron started during the CLINTON years.(I'm not blaming him for this; nobody cracked down on it until the shit hit the fan)

    Originally posted by asteroidboy

    Who presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have


Past presidents fucked up. The reserves are so the US retains stocks of oil, not so you can gas up your SUV on the cheap. Besides, if he had done it you'd be bitching about how Bush politicized the oils reserves to get a bump in the polls like Clinton did. At least Clinton went all the way and had the nerve to make sure one of Jesse Jackson's sons got first crack.

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    Next, you're gonna tell me that the first thing our special forces secured in Iraq was the oil fields.

Because GOD forbid Iraq have something to rebuild their economy with.
    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    I'm shocked and appalled.
After reading this, I'm just appalled

(edited by Grimis on 25.4.03 2140)



Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 112 days
Last activity: 112 days
#20 Posted on
I'll just chime in with, "If I remember correctly, Clinton tried to put some stricter legislation through (but who knows if it would've put the brakes to Enron) but was blocked by the Republican Congress."

-Jag



From the mouth of my uncle Jim, the Republican banker:
"I regret voting for Bush."
"We need to vote him out of office."

I am in Shock. I am in Awe.
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I still have not heard much GOP backlash on this (I have been a bit out of the loop in the last day, admittedly), but I did just hear parts of the memorial service... and talk about utterly disgusting. Who's idea was that?
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