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The W - Football - New York Jets 17, San Diego 14 (Page 2)
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It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.35
Well, after that horrific outing in which the wheels fell off and the Chargers bowed out after a game filled with stupid penalties and moronic coaching decisions like going for an onside kick with more than two minutes left and putting in an ice cold Nate Kaeding in a crucial moment, Norv Turner has been fired.

Wait, did I say fired? I meant REWARDED.

San Diego Chargers extend Norv Turner's contract through 2013 - ESPN


    SAN DIEGO -- Like it or not, Chargers fans, coach Norv Turner will be sticking around for four more years.

    The Chargers announced Monday night that the oft-maligned coach is getting a three-year contract extension through 2013.

    The extension came just more than 24 hours after the Chargers were shocked 17-14 by the New York Jets in the divisional playoffs, renewing calls by some fans for Turner to be fired.


Well, if Lane Kiffin, Jay Leno, and investor banks across the nation have taught me anything, it's that failing upwards is the new American dream. Why should this situation be any different?

This team won't have anyone to blame but themselves when their window finally closes for good.

(edited by It's False on 19.1.10 0002)



MacGruber! Making life-saving inventions out of household materials! MacGruber! Getting in and out of ultra-sticky situations! MacGruber! The guy's a freakin' genius! MACGRUBER!

Good luck getting that theme song out of your head
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 8 hours
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.20
I have no idea what you're talking about. The worst thing the Chargers could do would be to make a stupid, emotional decision and fire a good coach.

    Originally posted by It's False
    moronic coaching decisions like going for an onside kick with more than two minutes left


Going for the onside kick was the only rational thing for the Chargers to do. I don't understand why anyone could possibly think otherwise.

The Chargers had only one timeout. No matter where on the field it was, a first down wins the game for the Jets. So why on Earth would they not go for the onside kick in that situation? The failure was in the defense to make a stop, but that failure would have cost them had it happened at their own 40 or the Jets' 25.

Considering the Jets ran four times for a first down, I don't see any basis to suggest Turner's decision to try the onside kick made a difference in the outcome of the game.

Let's say the Chargers kick it off like normal, and everything works out in their favor: They force a three-and-out, and because of their timeout and the two minute warning the Jets have to punt with somewhere in the neighborhood of 1:15 remaining. And let's be generous and say after the punt, the Chargers start with the ball at their 35, though it probably would have been a little further back. Well now the most the Chargers could realistically hope for, considering their offensive struggles throughout the whole game (against the No. 1 overall defense in the league), is to gain about 40 yards in one minute with no timeouts to set up their kicker for a field goal try of approximately 40 yards. The same kicker you go on to blast Turner for relying upon.

Clearly, the onside kick was the appropriate course of action.


    and putting in an ice cold Nate Kaeding in a crucial moment


He had missed one field goal he should have made and a 57- or 58-yard try at the end of the first half. He's the most accurate field goal kicker in NFL history. The announcers said before the game he was making them from more than 60 yards. Turner made the only reasonable decision, and his kicker just blew it.


    Wait, did I say fired? I meant REWARDED.


One game doesn't make an entire season. The Chargers had a great year and there's no reason to believe they don't have at least two or three more great years ahead of them before it's time to rebuild to any serious degree (I guess Gates is getting kind of old, I don't know what they'll do when he tails off, but he's still very good right now). Yeah, the Chargers lost. You know what? Every team but one will end its season by either losing or not making the playoffs, or both. That does not mean there is only one very good head coach in the NFL each season.


    Well, if Lane Kiffin, Jay Leno, and investor banks across the nation have taught me anything, it's that failing upwards is the new American dream. Why should this situation be any different?


Yes, I see absolutely no problem with equating a 13-win season and first-round playoff bye with a bank going bankrupt or tanking a television show to embarrassingly low ratings. That makes perfect sense and is clearly not a knee-jerk, emotional reaction.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 19.1.10 0413)
The Guinness.
Bockwurst








Since: 24.4.05
From: San Diego, CA

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 3 hours
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.96
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Going for the onside kick was the only rational thing for the Chargers to do. I don't understand why anyone could possibly think otherwise.

    The Chargers had only one timeout. No matter where on the field it was, a first down wins the game for the Jets. So why on Earth would they not go for the onside kick in that situation? The failure was in the defense to make a stop, but that failure would have cost them had it happened at their own 40 or the Jets' 25.

    Considering the Jets ran four times for a first down, I don't see any basis to suggest Turner's decision to try the onside kick made a difference in the outcome of the game.


I agree with you 100%. I had essentially the same comments today at work in regards to the onside kick.

One of my rep had a pretty good point though. What if the Chargers kicked the ball instead of going for an onside kick. Fourth and one on the Chargers 20 or 30 yard line is much different than fourth and one on the 50. Would the Jets have gone for the fourth and one rush if the Chargers were in field goal territory?

I guess maybe because Kaeding was off. Either way, Chargers just blew. They looked like a team with no class that hadn't been to the playoffs in years.




(edited by The Guinness. on 19.1.10 0122)
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 20 days
Last activity: 2 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.59
I'm not sure where the hate for Norv Turner is coming from off the back of that game. Kaeding had a great regular season and only missed one makeable FG during the game. Why wouldn't you go with him from 40 when you're down by 10? If Norv had gone for it on 4th down and failed I can't help think people would be saying "why didn't he just kick the field goal?!".

And going for an onside kick with two minutes and one timeout left is the right decision every day of the week. First down for the Jets kills the game regardless of where they start with the ball.

The Chargers just flat out played badly. It happens. The Pats, Eagles, Cowboys and Cardinals have all thrown out a stinker in the playoffs this season too.

If you already think Norv wasn't a good coach then Sunday's game certainly won't have done anything to make you think otherwise, but if you woke up on Sunday morning thinking he was doing a decent job I can't think of a rational reason why you would go to bed thinking any different.
Leroy
Andouille








Since: 7.2.02
From: Huntington, NY

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.58

I'm probably the only Chargers fan who doesn't hate Norv Turner - and, IMO, a lot of the hate comes from the fact that fans still can't believe that Chargers' management fired the beloved Marty Schottenheimer and replaced him with the not-quite-so-beloved Norv Turner. Turner had the hate before the first game of his Chargers career, and, in spite of fact that he's gone further than anyone ever expected he would go with this team, he's under the proverbial microscope and any perceived mistake he makes means the fans will be calling for his head.

I hate the field goal in the 4th for a few reasons - first, the field goal meant they still had to score a touchdown to tie the game. It put all of the pressure back on the offense - and still put the game back in the hands of the Jets. Secondly, if they can't covert on 4th and 2 (I believe - may 4th and 3) with this much on the line, they are simply not going to win the game. Third, if they're close enough for a field goal and you need 10 points to tie, go for the frickin' touchdown! I'd almost say,"Go for it!" if it was the first half.

The field goal was the safe play in a situation where playing safe made no sense - regardless of how cold was their kicker. That's where I think some of the criticism of Tuner is valid - he doesn't instill a sense of aggression in his coaching style, and, this time, it bit him. Adding Kaedings difficulties, it really made little sense to me to go for the field goal.




Who likes the little little duckies in the pond? I do, I do, I do, a chicka-quack quack.
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 20 days
Last activity: 2 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.59
    Originally posted by Leroy
    I hate the field goal in the 4th for a few reasons - first, the field goal meant they still had to score a touchdown to tie the game. It put all of the pressure back on the offense - and still put the game back in the hands of the Jets. Secondly, if they can't covert on 4th and 2 (I believe - may 4th and 3) with this much on the line, they are simply not going to win the game. Third, if they're close enough for a field goal and you need 10 points to tie, go for the frickin' touchdown! I'd almost say,"Go for it!" if it was the first half.

I get where you're coming from, but I'd say if you're down by ten and you find yourself facing fourth and short just outside the 20, just take the FG and worry about the TD later.

Going for it on 4th and 2 is statistically about a 50-50 shot. Making a 40 yard FG is probably closer to 75-25 in your favour. You absolutely take the points on offer when the percentages tell you to, then regroup and gamble for the TD next time round if you need to.

Even if they *do* go for it on 4th down there's still a good chance that the drive ends with just a field goal. Heck, if you convert on a short run, you're still only a holding penalty or a sack from facing a longer field goal AND you've taken more time off the clock.

    Adding Kaedings difficulties, it really made little sense to me to go for the field goal.

Again, there was zero reason to suspect he was having difficulties*. Missing one manageable field goal makes him human, not troubled. You don't abandon a kicker just because he shanks one. Vinatieri missed a couple easy ones in the SB against the Panthers but by the end of the game he was the one kicking the winning field goal while Kasey couldn't hit the field.

Kick the FG and the odds say you're back within a score, instantly putting pressure on the Jets. Go for it and there's a 50% chance the game's over and a significant chance you'll wind up with a field goal (at best) anyway. I honestly don't see a strong case for being aggresive here, especially when you're essentially telling the best defence in the league that they only need to stop someone gaining two yards to more or less ice the game.

At worst it was a borderline call that looks bad with hindsight. At best, right call, wrong outcome.

*Unless he went to Norv and said "I really don't fancy this", in which case, duh, don't put him in there.

(edited by dMr on 19.1.10 1614)
Leroy
Andouille








Since: 7.2.02
From: Huntington, NY

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.58


As much as I hated the FG attempt, all of the reasons you give are exactly why I am not joining the chorus of people calling for Turner's (or Kaeding's, for that matter) head. Every Chargers fan I knew went into this game with a very unsettled feeling that we had already peaked.

I think you were exactly right when you stated that they just played poorly, and that good teams play poorly - which, for me, is what makes the playoffs the playoffs. Anything can happen.





Who likes the little little duckies in the pond? I do, I do, I do, a chicka-quack quack.
Psycho Penguin
Liverwurst








Since: 24.6.07
From: Greenacres FL

Since last post: 1389 days
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Y!:
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.14
Chargers fans probably think "Well, we only lost by 3 and only lost because we missed a field goal and did an onside kick at the end!" when nothing could be further from the truth. Only being up 7-0 while completely dominating the Jets offense in the first half came back to bite them in the ass in the end. It shouldn't have been as close as it was. The onside kick and field goals were both the right calls and Norv Turner should not be entirely blamed for believing in his team to make plays.

EDIT: I agree 100% with TheBucsFan's assessment of the game. It's nice to go back and say 'the plays didn't work, he shouldn't have called them', but it's easy to do that with hindsight. I bet if he kicked it deep and the Jets got a 1st down, there'd be a lot of 'WHY NOT ONSIDE KICK IT!!' chatter right now.

(edited by Psycho Penguin on 19.1.10 1434)


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IT'S TRUE! IT'S DAMN TRUE!

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We came up with several legends in this thread ( http://the-w.com/t/41754) from last year so there's no shortage. I dunno, I generally like Madonna, but unfortunately this isn't 1991.
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