Okay, after a thread about Final Fantasy thread started by Excalibur, I couldn't help but think of this.
What series of games has seen 'better days', so to speak, in terms of game quality. The Final Fantasy Tactics thread turned into FF6 was better than FF7, so I thought I'd start an official thread about other games as well. Also, thoughts on games that have progressed smoothly into bigger and better things are welcome too.
I'll first go forth and nominate 3.
1. Legend of Zelda. True, Windwaker is an excellent game, and the original LoZ was fun too, but I'd have to say the game peaked at LoZ; A Link to the Past. This is not to say the N64 games were crap; they weren't. In fact, the N64 LoZ games were probably the best games released during the era. Damn. TIE between Ocarina of Time and Link to the Past now that I think about it.
2. Megaman. Capcom is celebrating 15 years of Megaman. The series peaked at MM3 (MM4 for those "charge shot" freaks, even if did have friggin' TOAD MAN). It then rebirthed itself with MMX. As of late, however, many of the newer games pale in comparison to it's earlier roots.
3. The Star Wars license. Okay, this one is not "this old one was better than this new one." I'd have to say that as technology has progressed, Star Wars games have gotten better and better. Granted, I haven't played KoToR, but take Super Star Wars for the SNES, Star Wars; Shadows of the Empire, and now Rogue Squadron 3. All of these games are great. Okay, so I'm biased since I'm a Star Wars geek. But those games are still great.
Kane gets flustered that he didn't get to do something silly this week. Ho hum.
One series that I can think of that has probably seen better days is the Street Fighter series. I enjoyed every Street Fighter II release, and I also enjoyed most of the Alpha versions...but they really started to suck when the EX games came out...and I'm seriously doubting they won many fans with the SF3 series.
Personally, I never could get into the over-the-top frantic action of the X-Men vs. Street Fighter, Marvel vs. Street Fighter, etc. etc. series games, and I'm not particularily fond of the Capcom vs. SNK series. I dunno. All these power bars to pay attention to...it's really hard to pick up one of those games nowadays.
One series that seems to be reviving itself is Mortal Kombat. I mean, I really loved MK and MK2...and IMHO they started sucking with MK3 and UMK3, with the ridicululous AI. MK4 was ridiculous, but they're redeeming themselves with Deadly Alliance. I found that MK:DA was the best MK ever, and I thoroughly enjoyed it on my Game Boy Advance.
What about the Super Mario series? I mean, I always preferred Mario in 2D...that's why I still play my SNES and NES continuously. Sorry, Nintendo...revivals suck, especially on the GBA.
In regards to Mega Man, I'm admittedly not a huge Mega Man fan, and I found the games to be way too difficult for my preference. Also, my only experience with Final Fantasy would be playing through and beating FFVII, and becoming very, very disappointed with the ending. When I pick up a PS2 next month, FFX is one of the games I'll get.
Steven & Faith... Wedding day cometh July 24th, 2004
The thing I find with Megaman is that it is becoming a game for kids with the GBA games. Maybe it's just me though...It normally is...
I've been on a final fantasy hunt (to find the originals for my gameboy *sighs*) all I've got is FF7 for the PC(during the PS era I was about as hardcore Nintendo as 10 year old girl's could get!)
I'm a huge Legend of Zelda fan! I've been playing Link to the Past, Ocarina of Time and majora's mask recently
I have a friend who got Super Mario DX (GBC) and played it non-stop finishing it and the Luigi levels. And I'm not too fond of Super Mario Sunshine. My favourite Mario game is Super Mario 2 because I got it with my first gameboy *memories*
I recently got my my SNES out the cuboard and am having a very good time and to this this day my N64 sits in top of my Gamecube forcing me to move the damn thing when I want to change games. (which isn't too much of a problem really considering Super Smash melee will be there until I get Soul Caliber 2 on the 26th)
I loved the Dreamcast and was very sad to see it go : (. I loved Jet Set Radio and the original Soul Caliber to bits and I think any new Sega games are doing really well and better than their Dreamcast predecessors (especially Soul caliber!)
Lexus: Toad Man wasn't THAT bad. Just be glad there was only one boss like him in the whole series. (At least as far as I know... up to MM7.) But you were right... it did peak between 3 and 4. And I haven't played much of Wind Waker, but I hope the rest of the game isn't as annoying as the beginning... seriously, D and I couldn't figure out how to get past the section after you whack the spotlight guy. Never played Majora's Mask, either. But Ocarina of Time was quite nice, and Link to the Past is still the King Shit of Zelda Games.
Purple Pixie: If they have the PS compilation with FF5, get it. And now you're making me want to dig out my DC and play Jet Grind Radio RIGHT NOW. ^^;;;
Hmm. . .the Mega Man I enjoyed the most was 2. 7 was pretty cool, but only because it had Bass in it. and 8 had the badass anime scenes and Duo, but they never did anything with him so the heck with it.
As for Zelda, I'll agree that Link to the Past was the best of the series--sorry guys, but Wind Wanker has too much sailing as is a deeply ugly game to look at.
And as one who liked both the Street Fighter 3 series and the Capcom vs. SNK series (Stay far far FAR away from its bastard cousin SVC Chaos) I'd have to say the whole series of series peaked with Street Fighter Alpha 2. One of the most non-stop fun games to pick up and play even to this very day.
Castlevania has TWO finest hours, Dracula X (The Duo version) and it's sequel Symphony of the Night.
Mario's finest hour was part 3 for the NES, you had the bad-ass and damn near hard to find Hammer suit and KURIBO'S SHOE~! Everything after that was just stupid Yoshi tricks to me.
I can't speak to Final Fantasy--I'm a Phantasy Star man.
And since everyone else seems to be adding a game series they care about, I'll add one of mine: Shinobi 3 was the finest hour for that series and one of the best platformers I ever played.
(edited by Enojado Viento on 13.9.03 1817)
-LS "ahhh...vague, mandatory knee-jerk cynicism. God Bless Internet Forums.."
The Castlevania series has been on a roll on GBA. The last three titles were all money.
I'll always prefer the original Legend of Zelda over all of the Zelda series. It was really the first game of its kind and I'll never forget the hours I invested in it.
One game they remade which sucked were the Ghosts n' Goblins games. That weak ass Maximo has nothing whatsover on those.
I'm not so thrilled on the remake of my favorite series ever, which is Ninja Gaiden. So what if part 3 was weak, it's still better than 99% of all games ever made. NG 1 & 2 were just knock-you-on-your-ass-Angle/Benoit awesome. I don't see how the Xbox version is going to compare up to them. I don't see it being as wonderful as the originals.
Sigh. I feel so old.
Hail to the Redskins! Patrick Ramsey will own you! 16-0, here we come!
I personally enjoyed Final Fantasy VI the best. Pretty easily too. But the game that started it all from me was Dragon Warrior. They did a couple of sequels on the NES that I didn't like, but never played the one that game out on PS2 (or was it PSOne?) Was it any good? I also thought that the original Shining Force and the original Suikoden were the best in their series.
I think the NBA Live series has had better days, I remember back in 95 or so thinking it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. (Actually I don't like bread all that much, but that's not the point.) And the last couple of times I've played a NBA Live it has pretty much sucked. While the NCAA and Madden series seem to get better and better each year.
Originally posted by Enojado VientoAnd as one who liked both the Street Fighter 3 series and the Capcom vs. SNK series (Stay far far FAR away from its bastard cousin SVC Chaos) I'd have to say the whole series of series peaked with Street Fighter Alpha 2. One of the most non-stop fun games to pick up and play even to this very day.
Actually, that was me, saying that I didn't like the SNK vs. Capcom or SF3 series...Nobody here has, at least yet, said that they liked both series.
But I totally agree with you on the SFA2. I enjoyed it on the SNES (yes, seriously!), I loved it in the arcade, and I adored it on the PSone. My favorite characters of all time (Sakura and Dan) were there and they really rocked the kasbah! SHINKUU-HADOKEN! Gotta love it!
Steven & Faith... Wedding day cometh July 24th, 2004
I'm not sure it's fair to say that Lunar 2 is worse than Lunar 1. I mean, it is, but Lunar 2 is far from a bad game, and Lunar 1 was exceptional. There's still plenty of steam in the franchise, if you ask me. If they released Lunar 3 tomorrow (and Working Designs is puting together a Lunar 3 as we speak) I would totally pick it up, whereas they can keep making MegaMan games until doomsday, and I'll never buy another one.
This is real old school, but ActRaiser! The first one had a cool Sim Cityish mode and a great Action mode with INCREDIBLE graphics (When I got my SNES Xmas of 91, my parents got me that and Final Fantasy 2 along with of course Super Mario World. Good memories of playing SNES for hours then being told to play outside and kicking it to another guy's house who just had 8-bit to play Zelda, Dragon Warrior, and Startropics). The first game was fun and like nothing I had seen at the time. But then we got Actraiser 2, which had worse graphics and sound than the original and was an unfun shitty action game with bad control that replaced the original badass warrior with a shitty Angel who couldn't even friggin fly. Even now when I'm nearly 20 and can master most of the old games that gave me trouble I still can't beat one fucking stage in that beast.
"I wear it for the thousands who have died, believen' that the Lord was on their side. I wear it for another hundred thousand who have died, believen' that we all were on their side." RIP Johnny Cash
Final Fantasy has been in a slide since XI came out. FFXI wasn't actively bad, but it had inferior graphics compared to VIII, as well as a trite story and less interesting characters. FFX was hideous, in my opinion. The sheer annoyance factor of Tidus, Yuna, Rikku and Wakka had me drinking heavily just so I could slog through that piece of shit. The story was the most juvenile and predictable since the 8-Bit games, and that's just the tip of the iceberg with it's faults. Being able to switch characters in battle killed any party-building strategy and made the game way, way too easy. The fact that you couldn't do any sidequests until 3/4s of the way through the game was so shocking to me as a hardcore FF fan that I almost filled my PS2 with .454 slugs. And the fact that they're making an actual sequel to this travesty, featuring common characters, makes me want to curl up into the foetal position and gibber like a madman.
Pretty graphics could not save this dog of a game.
As for Zelda, I take issue with whoever said that Wind Waker was ugly. You, sir, havn't a clue. The sheer amount of time and energy that Nintendo put into making it look unique and unlike any other gamew out there was staggering. The attention to detail was massive, and apparent at any stage of the game, in the facial expressions, shape of the islands, and pretty much anything on the screen at any given time. More than any other game, Wind Waker gave me the impression that I was exploring an actual virtual world. It even macks GTA and Morrowind on that score.
But, you know, there's no accounting for taste.
Still, I'd take Ocarina of Time over Wind Waker, although I can't put my finger on the reason right now. Link to the Past and Ocarina are tied for my fave Zeldas, but Wind waker is definitely at number two.
So, no, I don't think the Zelda franchise is declining at all.
I hated Megaman ever since 4, so I definitely feel that he's gone down the tubes.
Castlevania II was one of my favorite NES games, but I've only played a couple of the newer ones: any suggestions?
I cant say I ever got into Final Fantasy, so I cant really weigh in on that...
Mario was much better suited to 2d, I could never really get into Mario 64, and I tried. After the whole "WOW, look at the graphics" thing wore off, it just didnt do it for me.
One series I wish they'd bring back is the Mutant League series.
Mutant League Football, and Mutant League Hockey were probably my two favorite Genesis games ever, and I downloaded an emulator to play them, since I have no idea where in my parents house my copies of the game (or my genesis for that matter) are.
Fun fun fun...
CHARLIE: I should have gone in. I'm such a chicken. I should have kissed her. I should go knock on her door and just kiss her. It would be romantic. It would be something we'd tell our kids about someday. I'm going to do that right now. (Drives Away)
I haven't played it, but Castlevania (I almost typed Castlemania); Symphony of the Night for the PS1, so I'm told, was the best of the series. Lots of elements from Metroid, so I'm told. Castlevania 64 was Tomb Raider Whip Edition, but was not completely unfun. The sequal on the 64, where you played a werewolf out to kill Dracula (which sounds bad ass), only had about 6 people play it.
Oh, and since I am currently tied up in it...
Metroid Prime is a cut above any other Metroid to date. I was told the game was short, but so far, it's longer than any other Metroid previously made, and it's incredible.
My gripe with WindWaker was that it was not too long. I loved LTTP and OOT because they had so many dungeons and a lot of things to do.
Kane gets flustered that he didn't get to do something silly this week. Ho hum.
Curious... nobody brought up a game that, while so legendary, also had some of the lamest follow ups EVER. I'm talking about Double Dragon.
The original arcade version is a bonafide legend. Arguable, so is its NES counterpart. And Double Dragon II for NES wasn't that bad to boot, but consider:
-DD II in the arcade reverted to the 'Renegade' left attack/right attack controls, which made the game, well, tough!
-DD III in the arcade was way too difficult, and one had to recharge their energy meter by popping in quarters. I think this was one of the first games that really started the trend of arcade games gobbling up quarters, come to think of it. And BTW, why couldn't have Technos/Taito/Tradewest-whoever-the-hell-made-Double Dragon just made 'Combatribes' Double Dragon III? It looked more like DD III, it felt more like DD III. Wasn't the same company responsible for the release of both of these games anyway, some way or another? Ugh!
-And let us not forget the shitty Street Fighter0type Double Dragon game that came out, the equally crappy crossover with BattleToads, and Super Double Dragon for SNES. In my opinion, that equals up to a whole lotta fresh, hot, steamin', fly-infested, pungent CRAPISMO.
Oh, and as far as Castlevania goes, I just have to mention how much I love Castlevania III. It IS one of the best original NES games ever.
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Metal Gear is the game that has gotten 200 times better than its inception.Great story,great characters,good gameplay,and actually pretty good voice acting.I think its still the best game for PSOne and Sons of Liberty had great graphics but of course,not enough Solid Snake.And with "Snake Eater" looking like it will take place during the sixties and the main character being "Big Boss" it looks like this series will get better before it gets worse.This is off record but is there any plans of making a movie of Metal Gear?
Man, I loved Double Dragon. 3 most of all. That game was so hard, but you got Chin! And that other guy who was freakin' awesome! I almost never played with the regular characters once I got the new ones (at least until the new ones died). This was one of the first games that started one of my favorite trends - games that were absolutely freaking impossible to beat, unless you had a friend and you were both skilled players. DD3 and Contra on the NES. The Avengers and Super Smash TV on the SNES. There were others, but those are the ones that come to mind right now. God, I miss those days.
I agree on the talk of Contra. The first game was awesome, but Super C was WAY too hard (and the original code didn't work for that game, at least I don't think it did). In fact, the newest Contra: Shattered Soldiers continued the tradition of being too hard (no saving until you get to level 5...Get the F out).
Double Dragon is also a good choice. Personally I think DD 2 was the most underrated game. It was my favorite game for quite some time. After 2 though, it was all downhill from there.
It's funny, but I think that if Nintendo had kept making sequels from Kid Icarus, those games would have made this list. Don't get me wrong, I loved KI, but the elements were just well suited for the NES. I think it would have looked even cheesier on newer systems. Flying Eggplants just don't translate too well to next gen hardware.
Molly, Stacy and Daffney all in WWE? I suddenly lost all my will to complain about anything regarding the WWE. Hope I don't lose my street cred for this.
TS, the greatest Wiener rated 6.1554 ever to live!! Oops, I mean 5.5...4.5?? Oh, dammit! I guess Notorious FAB was right.
Money in the Bank has 6 participants, whereas normal ladder matches have less. Did anyone else run into bugs aplenty in the Money in the Bank match? I had people teleporting from the mat to the top of the ladder to suplex people off.