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The W - Football - Nevada, Fresno State move to MWC, BYU considers going Independent (Page 2)
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TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.46
    Originally posted by Zeruel
      Originally posted by lotjx
      The reality is Notre Dame had a TV deal and a number championships before BYU ever did regardless who awards them are not. As long as the NCAA recognizes them that is all that matters.


    Because you refuse to read anything that people write, I will repeat it AGAIN.

    THE NCAA DOESN'T RECOGNIZE A DIV I-A/BCS "CHAMPION."
    THE NCAA DOESN'T RECOGNIZE A DIV I-A/BCS "CHAMPION."
    THE NCAA DOESN'T RECOGNIZE A DIV I-A/BCS "CHAMPION."

    The NCAA doesn't recognize the 8-11 "championships" Notre Dame has nor the one that BYU claims to have. Villanova has more national championships than Notre Dame in Div I football.


You mean Villanova has more NCAA-sanctioned national championships. Just acting as if the BCS winners don't exist is kind of silly. So the NCAA doesn't recognize Notre Dame as having a bunch of national championships - so what? Those titles still exist, even if the NCAA stamp isn't on the hardware. Notre Dame clearly has a prestige and reputation for outstanding play that BYU doesn't, and clearly that would be a factor in measuring BYU's success in this endeavor relative to that of Notre Dame. Who CARES if the NCAA sanctioned that prestige or not, in this particular discussion?

I'm not sure BYU would be able to maintain its recent standards in football as an independent, and ultimately THAT is what I think would make this a bad move, because if the football team suddenly starts losing four games each year, or isn't able to arrange a competitive schedule, how much assumed value is lost in the network idea?



Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.34
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan

    You mean Villanova has more NCAA-sanctioned national championships. Just acting as if the BCS winners don't exist is kind of silly. So the NCAA doesn't recognize Notre Dame as having a bunch of national championships - so what? Those titles still exist, even if the NCAA stamp isn't on the hardware.


Those are nothing but trophies that say that the Associated Press thinks they were the best team that season and most of those were awarded before the bowl games. If I suddenly awarded Maryland 15 national championship trophies, does that mean they would be a better program? Why not? They have more trophies!

By your standards, Notre Dame can't compare to the POWERHOUSE that is Yale with their claimed 26 titles before the I-A/I-AA split in 1976 because they have more unoffical trophies from a news organization.


    I'm not sure BYU would be able to maintain its recent standards in football as an independent, and ultimately THAT is what I think would make this a bad move


I have to agree with you there because as an AD at Texas or Oklahoma, what incentive is there to play Boise State or BYU? They have good programs and would stand a good chance to beat them. As an independent, unless they play ND, Army, or Navy, a school will have to give up a non-con spot and if it's a BCS school, I don't think that will happen unless they're a bottom feeder like Duke or Washington.

I think they'll be able to play non-BSC schools with no problem but that will hurt them with the voters unless they're at the top of their conferences so the computers will bump them back up.






-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --

-- July 2009 Ordained Reverend --
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.26
    Originally posted by Zeruel
    I don't think that will happen unless they're a bottom feeder like Duke or Washington.


You are dead to me. Oh, wait, I see what happened...

    Originally posted by Zeruel
    I don't think that will happen unless they're a bottom feeder like Duke or Washington STATE.


Fixed that for you. I'm sure that is what you ACTUALLY meant.

Actually, we (UW) play BYU quite often, as they are about as close geographically as any other Division I-A school that isn't in the Pac-10. We open the season in Provo in a couple weeks, and there were more games scheduled for 2013 and 2014 (I think) but UW backed out and scheduled patsies as part of the university's "Hey, we shouldn't suck this bad but let's not make it worse by scheduling three brutal non-conference games"-program.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.46
    Originally posted by Zeruel
      Originally posted by TheBucsFan

      You mean Villanova has more NCAA-sanctioned national championships. Just acting as if the BCS winners don't exist is kind of silly. So the NCAA doesn't recognize Notre Dame as having a bunch of national championships - so what? Those titles still exist, even if the NCAA stamp isn't on the hardware.


    Those are nothing but trophies that say that the Associated Press thinks they were the best team that season and most of those were awarded before the bowl games. If I suddenly awarded Maryland 15 national championship trophies, does that mean they would be a better program? Why not? They have more trophies!

    By your standards, Notre Dame can't compare to the POWERHOUSE that is Yale with their claimed 26 titles before the I-A/I-AA split in 1976 because they have more unoffical trophies from a news organization.


You are being intentionally ridiculous, and it's not very convincing. That doesn't follow at all from anything I said.

Your views on the legitimacy of the BCS, et al, are irrelevant to Notre Dame's legacy and following. The discussion was whether BYU has the prospects and following to justify a dramatic move to independent status in football, and even starting its own network. Notre Dame was mentioned, because it is a logical comparison. You're arguing about the merits of the BCS because ...?



wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan


    You are being intentionally ridiculous, and it's not very convincing. That doesn't follow at all from anything I said.

    Your views on the legitimacy of the BCS, et al, are irrelevant to Notre Dame's legacy and following. The discussion was whether BYU has the prospects and following to justify a dramatic move to independent status in football, and even starting its own network. Notre Dame was mentioned, because it is a logical comparison. You're arguing about the merits of the BCS because ...?


I'm with you, this yelling over the NCAA not sanctioning a champ has ZERO to do with why Notre Dame has way more pull than BYU could possibly hope for. Yes, I know all about how some championships were "awarded" over a decade after the seasons were played and teams that claim them are just being silly, but whatever. It doesn't matter here.

Though I do love to needle Georgia Tech fans when they claim one of their titles....jeez can't recall now but it was a season that I think Michigan State went undefeated wire to wire number one and GT lost a game and still claims they won a title that year. Fun stuff.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Your views on the legitimacy of the BCS, et al, are irrelevant to Notre Dame's legacy and following. The discussion was whether BYU has the prospects and following to justify a dramatic move to independent status in football, and even starting its own network. Notre Dame was mentioned, because it is a logical comparison. You're arguing about the merits of the BCS because ...?

Yeah, what TBF said.

The point we've been trying to make is that Notre Dame has the prestige, brand recognition, fan loyalty, etc. necessary to carry independent status and its own special television deal. Meanwhile, BYU - regardless of how many championships it has, regardless of how good the team is, regardless of its recent records - does not have the prestige or cache of Notre Dame (or a number of other schools, for that matter). Number of championships was being used (IN THIS CONTEXT) as one way of measuring said prestige, thus whether the NCAA recognizes those championships or not is completely irrelevant (IN THIS CONTEXT).

- StingArmy
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.34
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by Zeruel
        Originally posted by TheBucsFan

        You mean Villanova has more NCAA-sanctioned national championships. Just acting as if the BCS winners don't exist is kind of silly. So the NCAA doesn't recognize Notre Dame as having a bunch of national championships - so what? Those titles still exist, even if the NCAA stamp isn't on the hardware.


      Those are nothing but trophies that say that the Associated Press thinks they were the best team that season and most of those were awarded before the bowl games. If I suddenly awarded Maryland 15 national championship trophies, does that mean they would be a better program? Why not? They have more trophies!

      By your standards, Notre Dame can't compare to the POWERHOUSE that is Yale with their claimed 26 titles before the I-A/I-AA split in 1976 because they have more unoffical trophies from a news organization.


    You are being intentionally ridiculous, and it's not very convincing.

It's not because I was being quite serious. The awarding of those title were so arbitrary that no one even knows why they got the title other than they were voted #1. From the 20s to the 40s, other than box scores and radio, how could anyone compare one team to another. We're pretty spoiled with Sportscenter today.

ND claims 1930 (10-0) as a title. What about Alabama (10-0) and Utah (8-0)?

Also, in 1943 they claim a title but went (9-1). What about Colorado College (7-0), Purdue (9-0), Iowa (Pre-Flight school) (9-1),

In 1966, they claim that year too but went (9-0-1). What about Michigan State (9-0-1) and Alabama, the pre-season #1 (11-0-0)?

I could go on. What their titles boil down to are outside companies holding opinion polls to decide a champion.


Your views on the legitimacy of the BCS, et al, are irrelevant to Notre Dame's legacy and following.


Agreed and if I'm coming across as arguing that their legacy is invalid because of these "titles" being invalid in my opinion, then let me be clear. That's not what I mean at all.


    The discussion was whether BYU has the prospects and following to justify a dramatic move to independent status in football, and even starting its own network. Notre Dame was mentioned, because it is a logical comparison. You're arguing about the merits of the BCS because ...?


This goes to StingArmy as well, the whole BCS sidetrack happened because I was replying to lotjx whose point was ND is better that BYU because of their "national titles" and "As long as the NCAA recognizes them that is all that matters."

I agree with you two on all the other points brought up. They do have the fan base, a history of winning, and fans who WILL travel and are spread out. I am in no way saying that ND doesn't deserve the level of prestige it has, just one factor in determining it is pretty arbitrary. I really don't want to turn this into a for/against BCS thread, so I'm leaving it there, I can't really add more to it.

My point is that these "national titles" are meaningless, i.e. Yale and their 18. I said 26 before but I mixed them up with Princeton, which has the 26. I'm sure there's an Ivy Leaguer out there who was actually really hurt by that.

I agree, it can be argued that one way to measure prestige is the Mythical National Championship. I'm just saying it can also be argued that it shouldn't be one way to measure prestige.


(edited by Zeruel on 23.8.10 2259)

I buggered up all the font tags. Finally fixed. I just wanted to add that while I do my rankings for this season, I was going to go over Maryland's two "titles" (1951 & 1953) to see what my system spits out. I am going to try to do ND's and BYU's to see the results and I will post them when I am done. I'm really curious.

(edited by Zeruel on 23.8.10 2303)

-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --

-- July 2009 Ordained Reverend --
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.43
The Denver Post is reporting that BYU will stick with the Mountain West.


    The Provo, Utah, school doesn't have many alternatives since the Mountain West pulled the rug from under the Western Athletic Conference by raiding Fresno State and Nevada. BYU was contemplating going to the WAC in all sports except football and becoming an independent in football but playing a handful of WAC opponents.

    BYU has made no secret it wants greater freedom to broadcast its games over its network, BYU-TV. Unlike the proposed University of Texas network, BYU-TV isn't a cash cow but a vehicle for spreading the Mormon faith.




drjayphd
Scrapple
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Since: 22.4.02
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.50
So, wait... with Fresno State and Nevada leaving, does the WAC have to pound its own sand, or will the Mountain West provide that? (Good thing Hawaii sacked June Jones so I don't have to care about them or their conference's fate.)





You wanted the best, you got... the Out of Context Quote of the Week.

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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.46
So holy shit, BYU is doing it:

BYU leaving MWC for 2011-12 season
By Andy Katz
ESPN.com


Brigham Young University will leave the Mountain West Conference for the 2011-12 season, go independent in football and join the West Coast Conference in all other sports, most notably men's basketball.

The WCC confirmed the addition of BYU effective June 30, 2011, on Tuesday but said neither it nor BYU would comment until a news conference scheduled for Wednesday.

BYU had originally agreed to go to the Western Athletic Conference in all sports and go independent in football before the MWC squelched the move by inviting WAC members Fresno State and Nevada two weeks ago.

BYU had until Wednesday to notify the MWC if it was going to leave for the 2011-12 season.

The WCC held a conference call Monday with all eight presidents to approve the move. WCC presidents wanted only private institutions in the league and weren't interested in any other WAC member. The WCC wasn't limiting its search to only faith-based schools, but BYU does fit the profile since the other eight members are all faith-based universities and colleges. When WCC commissioner Jamie Zaninovich first arrived at the WCC in April 2008, he had looked into adding Big West members Pacific (private) and UC Santa Barbara but the moves were rejected, notably for including a public school.

BYU has worked out a football schedule for the 2011 season that will likely include at least two WAC members -- traditional rival Utah State and a previously scheduled series against Hawaii, which was in the WAC with BYU for decades.

BYU had worked out a scheduling agreement with the WAC for football prior to the initial deal blowing up two weeks ago. That schedule had BYU playing six WAC teams -- Utah State, Hawaii, Nevada, Fresno State, New Mexico State and San Jose State. On Monday, WAC commissioner Karl Benson demanded that Fresno State and Nevada remain in the WAC for the 2011-12 season since both schools failed to notify the league of an intention to leave prior to a July 1 deadline, meaning the Cougars may still play some of these schools on an independent football schedule.

BYU is working on an agreement with ESPN to televise its games and flesh out its football schedule, according to sources. BYU has already scheduled nonconference games with Oregon State and Texas for the coming years and has lined up a series with Boise State, which is joining the MWC after this season in the WAC. And since BYU is leaving the MWC, the Boise State game will become a nonconference game.


I hope it works out for them. Assuming their goal in football is to ascend even further up the ladder and stay there, it's a bold move.



redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.92
This will give Gonzaga serious competition in the basketball.
Where would ESPN place a BYU game: Saturday night is devoted to the SEC, early afternoon the Big Ten, they have the ABC window but that would get shuffled into regional in the BYU area. I'd guess the 10:30'ish EST/8:30 MT second half of a doubleheader on ESPN2 would be the likely spot, barring it being a big game that they would move to ABC.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    This will give Gonzaga serious competition in the basketball.

For now, this is all I care about. I'm tired of Gonzaga waltzing into the tournament after a season full of high school opponents.

- StingArmy
JayJayDean
Scrapple








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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.27
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    For now, this is all I care about. I'm tired of Gonzaga waltzing into the tournament after a season full of high school opponents.


Really? Their West Coast Conference opponents are largely weak, save St. Mary's, but their out-of-conference schedule is probably the toughest in the country. Last year they played...

November 17 at No. 2 Michigan State L 75-71
November 23 vs. Colorado* W 76-72
November 24 vs. Wisconsin* W 74-61
November 25 vs. Cincinnati* W 61-59
December 2 Washington State W 74-69
December 5 Wake Forest L 77-75
December 12 Davidson W 103-91
December 19 vs. No. 7 Duke* L 76-41
December 31 Oklahoma W 83-69
January 2 at Illinois W 85-83
February 6 at Memphis W 66-58

Say what you want, but that's a pretty brutal slate and the Zags won eight of eleven of those games.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    This will give Gonzaga serious competition in the basketball.
    Where would ESPN place a BYU game: Saturday night is devoted to the SEC, early afternoon the Big Ten, they have the ABC window but that would get shuffled into regional in the BYU area. I'd guess the 10:30'ish EST/8:30 MT second half of a doubleheader on ESPN2 would be the likely spot, barring it being a big game that they would move to ABC.


I'm thinking Versus is about the right level for BYU right now.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by StingArmy
      For now, this is all I care about. I'm tired of Gonzaga waltzing into the tournament after a season full of high school opponents.


    Really? Their West Coast Conference opponents are largely weak, save St. Mary's, but their out-of-conference schedule is probably the toughest in the country. Last year they played...

    November 17 at No. 2 Michigan State L 75-71
    November 23 vs. Colorado* W 76-72
    November 24 vs. Wisconsin* W 74-61
    November 25 vs. Cincinnati* W 61-59
    December 2 Washington State W 74-69
    December 5 Wake Forest L 77-75
    December 12 Davidson W 103-91
    December 19 vs. No. 7 Duke* L 76-41
    December 31 Oklahoma W 83-69
    January 2 at Illinois W 85-83
    February 6 at Memphis W 66-58

    Say what you want, but that's a pretty brutal slate and the Zags won eight of eleven of those games.

Well, I was really talking about the Gonzaga teams that (I felt) were overhyped, and that hasn't necessarily been the case for a couple of seasons. I'm thinking more Adam Morrison years and before. But more importantly, yes, I was referring to their conference schedule. So I apologize for not taking their out-of-conference opponents into account.

- StingArmy
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98
As if I knew something about college football, I called this (sltrib.com).

BYU officials announced an eight-year partnership with television sports giant ESPN, a move to the WCC for most of BYU’s other sports teams and an agreement to play Notre Dame in football six times in the next 10 years during a news conference Wednesday at LaVell Edwards Stadium.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.43
    Originally posted by sltrib.com link above
    Financial terms of the BYU-ESPN deal were not released, but estimates put it anywhere between $800,000 and $1.2 million per home game. Brown said a minimum of three BYU home games per year will be carried by ESPN, ESPN2 or ABC. Additional games could be shown on ESPNU, and at least one game each season will be carried live on BYUtv, the network owned by the school that reaches about 55 million U.S. homes. Put more simply, ESPN will broadcast nearly every BYU home game on one of its platforms.


And like all their rights fees, ESPN will just take it out of the pockets of everyone who has a cable subscription. Like with the MNF deal.

Raise their rate another dime per household per month. What, some cable company is NOT going to carry ESPN? It's a license to print money.

Grinds my gears every time I read about ESPN gobbling up another sports property.



lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
      Originally posted by sltrib.com link above
      Financial terms of the BYU-ESPN deal were not released, but estimates put it anywhere between $800,000 and $1.2 million per home game. Brown said a minimum of three BYU home games per year will be carried by ESPN, ESPN2 or ABC. Additional games could be shown on ESPNU, and at least one game each season will be carried live on BYUtv, the network owned by the school that reaches about 55 million U.S. homes. Put more simply, ESPN will broadcast nearly every BYU home game on one of its platforms.


    And like all their rights fees, ESPN will just take it out of the pockets of everyone who has a cable subscription. Like with the MNF deal.

    Raise their rate another dime per household per month. What, some cable company is NOT going to carry ESPN? It's a license to print money.

    Grinds my gears every time I read about ESPN gobbling up another sports property.


Wait til the NHL deal gets worked out, it will go up probably another dollar. I figured ESPN would be the ones who take them and like everyone else, I am not sure when they are going to be on. I would expect a lot of ESPN 2 and ESPN U in their future. Good move landing ND since thats at least one good opponent they will play now for the rest of the schedule.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    What, some cable company is NOT going to carry ESPN? It's a license to print money.

From what I understand, Time Warner is threatening to stop carrying ESPN if ESPN tries to strong-arm them into paying more for its family of networks. My initial reaction was, "HA! Yeah you go ahead and try that, Time Warner, and I'll see how fast I can call and cancel my subscription and switch to DirecTV, RCN, Comcast, or whoever else."

Then I realized there are some people who don't have the option to switch providers due to various restrictions imposed by their leases or homeowners' associations. Apparently Time Warner did something like this recently, where they weren't carrying Fox's networks for a period of time. Those "stuck" Time Warner subscribers would probably put a whole heck of a lot of pressure on ESPN/Disney to back down (or at least more pressure than I would, which is zero).

EDIT: Just saw a Time Warner spot (on ESPN) where they announced they came to an agreement with Disney, so no ESPN interruption for TWC customers. That's too bad, I would have loved to see that play out.

- StingArmy

(edited by StingArmy on 3.9.10 1913)
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
Not only did Time Warner cave, and I would have switched if they didn't, but now we finally get ESPN3, plus they added a channel that's some college football thing where they will flip between games when teams are close to scoring. That plus my Gameplan sub and I'm ready for the season.
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