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The W - Football - NCAA conference mayhem, 2010 edition
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Zeruel
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.35
Wow. Ok, I knew the Big Ten was planning to go from 11 to 12 teams, but now the Big 12 is giving out ultimatums and ESPN is saying that as many as six schools, including Texas, could be up for grabs for the Pac-10 to grab and expand with.

To me, the biggest shocker is that the Big 12 could collapse and have to scramble to snatch up Sun Belt, WAC, MWC, and/or CUSA schools to keep their conference championship game, or that they could be absorbed by the Pac-10, Big East, and Big Ten.


I love the ACC, but when I think of the three best top conferences in NCAA football, the Big 12 is right up there with the Big Ten and SEC. It was a shock when the SWC imploded and the Big Eight expanded, and it would be another shock if the conference just went away altogether.


Big Ten unaware of Big 12 ultimatums
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5258111

Report: Huskers, Mizzou face ultimatum
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5257088

Pac-10 to decide by end of year
http://sports.espn.go.com/los-angeles/ncf/news/story?id=5257774




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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
I'm just not getting why all those teams would move to the Pac 10. Makes zero sense. Sure they would get a better TV deal, but why would schools like Texas and OU want to make it that much harder for to get to a national title game? They already have to deal with each other, why add in USC to the mix? I don't mind Nebraska and Missouri leaving, but really don't want to see the Pac 10 thing at all.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
Pac-10 talking 16 is the nuclear option that few expected. Domino theory should the Big 12 collapse outright is the Big 10 going to 14 or 16, the SEC would have to respond by going after Florida State and Miami (maybe even Georgia Tech/Clemson), which would probably cause the remnants of the Big East football and ACC to consider a merger. That would make the Catholic Big East schools form their own basketball conference with some of the Catholic A-10 schools. With 4 superconferences in college football, you would pretty much lose any marquee non-conference games, as there would be no incentive to playing an additional difficult game/hard feelings between teams in conferences that bolted. The possibility of the superconference teams bolting the NCAA could be a possibility, which would put the golden goose of the NCAA basketball tournament in doubt. This might make the shake-up of 20 years ago look like child's play.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.51
It is amazing that the Pac-10 are now the evil empire looking to grab teams at will instead of the Big Ten. Missouri has been bitching about the Big 12 for years now, so they will probably jump at the chance at either the Pac-10 or Big Ten. Now, if the Pac-10 grab a smaller WAC team or Mountain West, I don't see the giant domino effect. If Nebraska stupidly goes to the Pac-10 where their ground pound option play will get them killed every year then you will see everything fall apart. If anything it will force Notre Dame into the Big Ten which would benefit both of them. It will stop some of the criticism about the BCS favoring ND over conference schools as well as help them get into the BCS games with a 9-3 which they wouldn't get into while independent. The Big Ten gets mad money with a top gate puller for 9 to 10 games as opposed to the 3 to 4 they usually get ND for. At the end of the day, I think this will be a lot of talk and most of these guys will come out with cooler heads. I can't see the Big 12 dissolving when they are consistently in the championship game every year.

(edited by lotjx on 7.6.10 0903)
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
If it is just Missouri to the Big 10, then the Big XII grabs a Colorado State/Utah/TCU to get back to the magic number of 12 and not much movement happens. If Nebraska and Missouri go to the Big Ten (which would then have 13 and then you'd get a Rutgers or a Syracuse to keep it on an even division number of 14), then all hell breaks loose. At this point, perhaps the Big Ten grabs both Big East teams and Notre Dame comes along since they can read the landscape at 16. Big XII would need 2 teams to get back to the magic number for a conference title game, and at that point it might be easier for Texas and A@M, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, and Colorado and (Iowa State/Colorado State/Utah/Kansas) to join a 16 team Pac 10 that is split in 2 divisions. The original 8 would be in 1 division, the new 6 plus the Arizona's in the other. The remnants of the Big XII go the way of the remnants of the SWC into either the Mountain West/WAC/Conference USA. The SEC raids the ACC or Big East (Louisville or South Florida) to get to 16 teams. The remnants of the Big East and ACC consolidate, perhaps picking up a Conference USA team if they need the numbers to get to 16. Either they bolt the NCAA or they form Division Super 1 for football, thus leaving the basketball money available. Play an 11 game season by facing the other 7 teams in the division and 4 crossover games in your conference, top 4 in each conference play 2a vs. 1b, 2b vs. 1a, winner of the 4 conference tournaments meet in a 4 team playoff.

(edited by redsoxnation on 7.6.10 1051)
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.23
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    I'm just not getting why all those teams would move to the Pac 10. Makes zero sense. Sure they would get a better TV deal, but why would schools like Texas and OU want to make it that much harder for to get to a national title game? They already have to deal with each other, why add in USC to the mix? I don't mind Nebraska and Missouri leaving, but really don't want to see the Pac 10 thing at all.


In football it wouldn't change things (as far as degree of difficulty) all that much for the Big XII refugees. They would split the Pac-16 into two conferences, which would basically be the old Pac-8 (the Washington, Oregon, NorCal, and LA schools) and the put the Arizona schools with the schools that leave the Big XII. They would only (likely) play two cross-division games, one road and one home, so that's only one west coast trip per year for Texas and Oklahoma.

I get what you're saying regarding a Pac-10 title game vs. USC, but there isn't any reason Nebraska or Kansas couldn't have gotten good enough to make the Big XII title game a tougher title game.



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Since: 2.2.04
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
I just hope that the PAC 10 is doing all this because they've heard USC is gonna get nailed this week.

Yeah, not gonna happen, I know. But still.
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Since: 16.4.02
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
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    Originally posted by lotjx
    The Big Ten gets mad money with a top gate puller for 9 to 10 games as opposed to the 3 to 4 they usually get ND for.


But I wonder how Notre Dame's TV deal w/ NBC would complicate matters of them joining the Big Ten (and thusly, the Big Ten Network.)

And THAT'S where the money is. If I recall an ESPN article from the weekend correctly, Big 12 schools like Mizzou got around $7-8 million/year from the Big 12...but thanks to their network, the Big Ten gave each of ITS schools over $20 million!







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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.40
From what I understand about the NBC deal, the Irish would make a few million dollars more. The place is constantly sold out and they even increased pricing during the recession. Its a big win for the Big Ten due to them traveling to stadiums like Indiana, Northwestern and the lesser Big Ten teams. Its a better move for the Irish and the Big Ten all the way around.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.73
(Sorry for the lack of linkage and quoting previous posts. I'm posting from my phone.)

I think most of the Ws in this thread have hit the major points squarely. To summarize things, based on what I've read and gleaned from the past several editions of SportsCenter:

1) This is all about the money, mostly TV money. The top-paid Big XII team last year in terms of TV revenue was (no surprise) Texas. They pulled in $10 mil. By comparison, thanks to the BTN even the lowliest of Big Ten teams took $20 mil home. That is a ridonkulous difference. Conferences want their own networks now. Otherwise it's like they're just leaving money on the table.

2) A new Pac 10 with the additional six Big XII deserters wouldn't be as exciting as one might think. They'd almost certainly do East and West divisions, with USC and most current Pac 10 teams in the West and Texas and the rest of the new Pac 10 teams in the East. With nonconference schedules factored in, JJD is right, there probably wouldn't be more than 1 or 2 inter-division games.

3) I can't believe it, but I've heard talk of the SEC essentially swallowing up the ACC, taking whatever above-average football schools exist. Not sure I can handle going from being an ACC fan to an SEC fan that quickly. That would have such a WWF-buya-out-WCW feel to it too. Ugh. One thing that makes me chuckle though as an ACC fan is how many people have implied that SEC teams are mostly safe from being snatched up by other conferences because SEC schools' academic standarda don't exactly match up with a lot of schools elsewhere. Take that, dum dums! =)

4) Whenever this football chaos starts up, one of my first thoughts is how any proposed changes could affect basketball. I think every ACC bball fan I know longs for the days of having a home-and-home with every team every season. But what would happen now? I think the Big East basketball conference schedule is unwieldy. If the teams weren't so dang good it would all those conference games would make for so much miserable TV. All these other proposed super-conferences certainly won't have the Big East's level of basketball talent. What will THEY do? And what would happen to my poor ACC? If they split up Dook and UNC for football purposes does that mean they only play each other once a year now? I think the entire state of North Carolina would revolt. Maybe they can get a game in every season on a neutral court in one of those early-/pre-season tournaments and then play the second game on a neutral court in Charlotte or something. That would still seem so wrong.

5) You thought the non-power conference schools like Utah and Boise State complained a lot now? Hoooo boy! By the way, wasn't there talk not too long ago about the Pac 10 extending invitations to one or both of those teams? And I think maybe Fresno State too? Is that dead now?

- StingArmy
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
I don't buy the ACC being in trouble here. I'm sure the SEC may try to snag some teams, but from what I've heard most ACC schools are pretty happy where they are, especially with the new TV deal they just signed.

And if the PAC 10 destroys the Big 12, which I also don't buy at this point though Colorado may be making the move today for fear of being left out, wouldn't that be good for the MWC who would officially move one spot up in all the rankings they need to become an official BCS conference? Unless they change the rules, they'd become an autoqualifier I think.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 55 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.73
    Originally posted by wmatistic
    And if the PAC 10 destroys the Big 12, which I also don't buy at this point though Colorado may be making the move today for fear of being left out, wouldn't that be good for the MWC who would officially move one spot up in all the rankings they need to become an official BCS conference? Unless they change the rules, they'd become an autoqualifier I think.

Well first of all, how are you defining "destroys?" If they manage to take all six of the schools previously mentioned, yeah that would really suck for the Big XII, but there's no way the conference just up and disappears. They'll reload with new (although probably lesser) football schools. I imagine it'd be like what happened to the Big East a few years ago when the ACC yoinked most (all?) of its good football programs.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Big XII continues to exist in some form, wouldn't it keep its "BCS conference" status?

_ StingArmy
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.40
According to the ESPN ticker Nebraska will give their decision to move to the Big Ten by the end of the week. Also, a friend of mine heard that the Big 12 basically give Nebraska and Missouri the ultimatum to decide this week if they are either with them or not. I know Missouri has been talking smack about leaving, but how in good faith or mind do you give that threat to Nebraska. Nebraska who since the 80s up until five years ago was the shinning star of the Big 12. Hell, they came within in controversial second of topping Texas this year.They pack their stadium,, they are a great rival for the rest of the teams in the conference, it makes no bloody sense. Nebraska plays the same kinda ball the Big Ten does and maybe even better. I don't think the Big 12 will go away, but its BCS power will be greatly diminished if they lose more then two teams. I think even losing Nebraska and Missouri puts them in the ACC/Big East category. They would have Texas, Oklahoma and Colorado as their big draws, two of those teams just lost their star QBs to the draft as well as other talent. Their names will keep them in the running for the title, but I don't like their chances of being a must see team on television come the fall.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
    Originally posted by StingArmy
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      And if the PAC 10 destroys the Big 12, which I also don't buy at this point though Colorado may be making the move today for fear of being left out, wouldn't that be good for the MWC who would officially move one spot up in all the rankings they need to become an official BCS conference? Unless they change the rules, they'd become an autoqualifier I think.

    Well first of all, how are you defining "destroys?" If they manage to take all six of the schools previously mentioned, yeah that would really suck for the Big XII, but there's no way the conference just up and disappears. They'll reload with new (although probably lesser) football schools. I imagine it'd be like what happened to the Big East a few years ago when the ACC yoinked most (all?) of its good football programs.

    And correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Big XII continues to exist in some form, wouldn't it keep its "BCS conference" status?

    _ StingArmy






If the Big XII loses 6 to the Pac 10 and 2 to the Big 10, then they won't exist. The comparison then is the Southwest Conference schools that didn't get invited into the Big XII in the mid 90's. Finding 2 or 3 schools to take the place of others is possible, replacing 75% of the conference is the death blow.
In terms of the Mountain West moving up into a BCS automatic slot: If all of these moves happen, who knows what the landscape looks like in terms of bowls or BCS. What really would be interesting should all of this play out is the 2011 season, as at least the Pac 10 has stated that there moves would begin in Fall 2012. That could be one crazy lame duck season for a lot of programs/conferences.
whatever
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Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.94
Here's a link to an article regarding Nebraska's timetable.

One other thing of note with regards to the Big Ten: all the current members of the Big Ten are members of the AAU (Association of American Universities), a group of 63 research institutions. It is believed that any additional invitees will be members of the AAU. Nebraska, Mizzou, Texas, Rutgers, and Syracuse are all members. Interestingly enough, Notre Dame is not. I certainly don't think this would prevent them from offering Notre Dame, but I do think this would be a factor for any other school (Texas Tech for example).

(edited by whatever on 9.6.10 0922)



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Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.73
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Finding 2 or 3 schools to take the place of others is possible, replacing 75% of the conference is the death blow.

I agree that if the Big XII loses 7 or 8 of its 12 schools it is going to have a practically impossible time replacing them all. But surely you aren't suggesting they'd wave the white flag right away. I bet Houston would accept an invite. After the way the regular season ended last year, TCU has some pretty good reasons for joining if they're invited. And there's no rule (as far as I know) that says the replacement schools have to be geographically located in traditional Big XII country, so they could theoretically venture slightly east or north.

But this is all relatively uninformed fantasy booking on my part. My point is that a reformed Big XII could very well be drastically weaker, but I think it'll still be around for awhile.

- StingArmy
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.24
The thing I am most curious about with all these scenarios is what is going to happen to Kansas. If Baylor worms its way into the new Pac-10 at Colorado's expense, could we see a pretty frickin' sweet Mountain West with...

BYU
Utah
Air Force
Wyoming
Colorado State
New Mexico
San Diego State
UNLV
TCU

joined by...

Boise State
Kansas
Kansas State
Colorado
Iowa State

Adding Boise State and Colorado for football and Kansas for hoops would be a pretty nice coup for the MWC.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

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Since: 24.6.07
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.05
Kansas State would be a good pickup too.



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Since: 8.10.03
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.55
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
    Kansas State would be a good pickup too.


Living in the state and working for K-State, I would like to think we are a good pick up but the football team is, well we're not sure really. Basketball should be okay unless we move and Martin decides to move on. The truth is even with Jayhawk Basketball, we don't bring the poulation base a major wants. Mountain West would likely be thrilled with both but losing so many long-term rivalries hurts both Kansas schools.



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Since: 24.6.07
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.05
Kansas State would immediately become the 4th best football team and 2nd best basketball team, unless the MWC gets Boise, then they'd be the 5th best football team.



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Amazing that for two stright weeks people picked the Cardinals and are still around... I think I'll just pick (ok) whoever the Rams (ok) play for the rest of the year (ok).
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