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The W - Baseball - Nationals: One and done?
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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1185 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
The DC Stadium deal could be in trouble:
    Originally posted by David Nakamura, Washington Post, 12/15/04
    The D.C. Council approved legislation late last night that dramatically restructures the city's deal with Major League Baseball by requiring that private financing cover half the cost of a new stadium.

    Chairman Linda W. Cropp (D) shocked her colleagues after 11 hours of debate on a stadium package by offering the private financing amendment about 10 p.m., saying she was disappointed by recent talks with Major League Baseball.

    The bill, which was approved on a 7 to 6 vote, gives Mayor Anthony A. Williams (D) until June to find the required private financing plan. If that plan is not certified by Natwar M. Gandhi, the city's chief financial officer, and approved by the council, the stadium bill would lapse.

    "My basic belief is that there are too many public dollars going into this," Cropp said. "This will make the mayor seek private dollars more than anything else. I don't know how Major League Baseball will react."
MLB is not commenting....yet. But part of the agreement was that the city was going to pay for the entire thing. All that was needed to seal the deal was passing hte legislation as was, which the council did not do.

MLB could very easily send this team to Las Vegas if DC doesn't raise the money or change the legislation by the end of this year.





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bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.10
While it surprises me that it happened in DC, I say good for them. It's pretty clear that publicly financed stadiums only benefit the franchise and not the community so I'm happy to see that someone is not giving in just because baseball wants a free stadium.

Tim



Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit. -- Erasmus
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1185 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
And I don't disagree with that....

But....

The fact of the matter is that the city agreed to make the deal without this provision. Cropp did not bring this issue up until now. Which looks pretty bad.

Long-term, one wonders if this helps or hurts her chances to become Mayor.





It is ironic that a Republican President has an Administration that is more inclusive and more diverse than a so-called liberal-media-elite network.
- Tavis Smiley on the diversity of the Bush Cabinet vis--vis NPR
bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

Since last post: 715 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.10
    Originally posted by Grimis
    The fact of the matter is that the city agreed to make the deal without this provision. Cropp did not bring this issue up until now. Which looks pretty bad.


Technically, the city didn't make the agreement, the mayor did, contingent upon getting approval from the city council. As for Ms. Cropp, she did raise the issue more than a month ago (sports.espn.go.com) and I know I (The W) praised Marion Barry for saying the city shouldn't be paying for a new stadium. Really, I would lay the blame for this at the feet of the mayor and MLB, not at a fiscally prudent councilwoman.

Tim



Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit. -- Erasmus
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 56 min.
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by bash91
    While it surprises me that it happened in DC,


Doesn't surprise me. I called this weeks ago. I've lived here long enough (14 miles due north from the capital building) to know DC doesn't know what it's left hand is doing and the right hand doesn't care.

Linda Cropp says that she was "not trying to kill the deal" but wanted to "some teeth in it because I'm really disappointed with what I got from Major League Baseball."

She knew what the agreement that Tony Williams made with MLB, but she wanted to make a political stand and come up with something different, AGAIN.

NOVA or Portland will get the team now.




The Catastrophic Annihilation War Room
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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
Put them in Vegas, move them to the A.L. West, move the D-Rays to the N.L. East, and everyone except the Marlins comes out of it happy.
bash91
Merguez








Since: 2.1.02
From: Plain Dealing, LA

Since last post: 715 days
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.10
And now it looks like MLB is telling DC to drop dead given the text of their press release. (mlb.mlb.com)

From Bob DuPuy:
"The legislation approved by the District of Columbia City Council last night does not reflect the agreement we signed and relied upon after being invited by District leaders to consider Washington as a home for Major League Baseball. The legislation is inconsistent with our carefully negotiated agreement and is wholly unacceptable to Major League Baseball.

"Because our stadium agreement provides for a December 31, 2004 deadline, we will not entertain offers for permanent relocation of the club until that deadline passes. In the meantime, the club's baseball operations will proceed, but its business and promotional activities will cease until further notice. We thank the fans of Washington, D.C. for their support and enthusiasm, but given the present uncertainty, any ticket purchaser who entrusted us with a deposit may request a refund through the club's ticket office."

Personally, I really hope that the DC City Council calls their bluff and doesn't cave. Quite frankly, I think it would be better for baseball as a whole if DC doesn't give into blackmail and forces MLB to realize that more and more people are adamantly opposed to publicly funding and are less and less willing to listen to the feigned pleas of poverty from MLB owners. We all know that stadium funding doesn't do anything economically for anyone other than the team owners, now maybe MLB will acknowledge that since the city council of a city allegedly desperate for baseball is willing to let MLB go before giving them a publicly funded boondoggle that the team owners will argue needs to be replaced within the next 10 years. (Of course, I still believe in the tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus.)

Tim





Vocatus atque non vocatus, Deus aderit. -- Erasmus
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 56 min.
Last activity: 56 min.
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by bash91
    >Personally, I really hope that the DC City Council calls their bluff and doesn't cave.


Linda Cropp is determined to let someone else pay for the stadium and not have the gov sell bonds to get the money.

There are a few people yelling that the gov will do nothing about the homeless and poor and will jump on a new ballpark and she is listening to them. She did this as a political statement.






The Catastrophic Annihilation War Room
And now, for a limited time only, THE BAND IS OUT ON THE FIELD!!!"

Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1185 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Wilbon's column makes a good point
    Originally posted by Michael Wilbon in the 12/16 DC Post
    Last weekend I ran into a very smart man who knows the D.C. Council, and Chairman Cropp, very well. He likes her tremendously. He told me, promised me, she was going to make sure this deal wasn't killed. It would turn out, he said, that she would save D.C. perhaps as much as tens of millions of dollars and still get the deal done. She knew exactly what she was doing, he told me. I said I hoped so, and if that indeed turned out to be the case I'd reassess my criticism that Cropp was a raging egomaniac with her own personal agenda and that her bait-and-switch tactic was insulting and wouldn't work.

    So here we are, fewer than three weeks from the end of the year and Cropp is still trying to rewrite the deal and MLB is staring her down, without blinking, and telling her she's not going to get a new deal, only the one her city agreed to.

    There are plenty of reasons to not publicly finance a new stadium of any kind. But that decision should have been made before two partners danced this long. When the music stops -- and we seem to be nearing the end of this song -- somebody's foot is going to be crunched and I don't think it'll be baseball's.


Tom Boswell makes similar points
    Originally posted by Thomas Boswell in the 12/16 Post
    What is utterly and absolutely not acceptable is the current behavior of Council Chairman Linda Cropp and nine of her colleagues who want to bait-and-switch baseball into a radically altered deal than the one which Williams negotiated exhaustively -- as his city's official representative -- over a two-year period.

    In business, a deal is a deal, something Cropp refuses to understand. For her any deals, those made by others or even ones she has agreed to herself in recent days, are not deals at all. They are just a starting point for her next demand. And if she finally hears "No" to one of her new conditions, as she did on Tuesday from baseball, she threatens to sabotage the whole deal.

    Finally, yesterday, baseball became completely disgusted and drew a line in the sand.
That's what sounds like is really starting to irritate people; from the sound of it, this amendment wasn't even written until the council meeting on Tuesday night, blindsiding just about everybody including the Mayor.



And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men....that's the meaning of Christmas, Charlie Brown.
- Linus van Pelt
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 44 days
Last activity: 10 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41

The latest spin by the pro- side seems to be that the con- side did a great job of using the words "publicly financed stadium" even if most of the costs were going to come out of the stadium users' pockets and big business.

This reads as "people weren't smart enough to see who good the deal was and the people screaming about schools and roads can't figure it out."



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
The Affirmation, Baby Blog
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.40
http://www.wtopnews.com/index.php?sid=365294&nid=25

Some interesting news on who may have helped derail the stadium plans.


    Opponents of a publicly financed baseball stadium spent roughly $50,000, trying to sway public opinion.

    In one method used to get their message out, opponents used an automated phone line.

    The person on the automated phone call says he's from a group called Friends of the Earth, and he's opposed to a stadium built with public money

    Friends of the Earth is part of a coalition called "No D.C. Taxes For Baseball."

    And, WTOP Radio has learned up to 20 percent of the $50,000 came from Robert Siegel, an Advisory Neighborhood Commissioner whose business would have to move to make way for the stadium.

    Siegel is a major landowner on the South Capitol stadium site, an area that Siegel calls "D.C.'s unofficial Red Light district."

    He owns 11 properties, several of which house gay nightclubs. He also owns a gay porn shop and adult theaters.

    He says he's spent $20,000 of his own money to keep from being displaced by a new stadium. The funding includes other efforts he undertook to keep out baseball, including neighborhood signs and lawyer fees.


Corajudo
Frankfurter








Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

Since last post: 22 days
Last activity: 1 day
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15
    Originally posted by odessasteps

    The latest spin by the pro- side seems to be that the con- side did a great job of using the words "publicly financed stadium" even if most of the costs were going to come out of the stadium users' pockets and big business.

    This reads as "people weren't smart enough to see who good the deal was and the people screaming about schools and roads can't figure it out."


If the money comes out of big business in the form of higher taxes, that is the definition of publically funded stadium. If the money comes out of the users' pockets, then the team owners should pay for the stadium since they will reap the majority of the benefits and since it is such a good deal.

I understand that no one wants to put their own money up if they think the government will fund it. However, if it really is such a good business deal and will make a lot of money, then someone will fund it. The fact that no one is stepping up to do it is all the evidence we need to see the economic merit of this deal.

Lastly, if blocking the deal really is against what the public wishes, then that will be reflected in the next election. I don't know diddly about DC civic politics (other than 'bitch done set me up'), but my guess is that Cropp will be the next mayor.
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 56 min.
Last activity: 56 min.
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by Corajudo
    but my guess is that Cropp will be the next mayor.


That crackhead has a better chance of being mayor again. All the religious folk in DC have forgave him for his sins and would gladly put him back in the office again.




The Catastrophic Annihilation War Room
And now, for a limited time only, THE BAND IS OUT ON THE FIELD!!!"

Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1185 days
Last activity: 982 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
The team may also never play in DC:

    Originally posted by David Nakamura and Thomas Heath, 12/20 Washington Post
    Baseball sources said Norfolk is considered a primary alternate home for the former Montreal Expos franchise if the Washington baseball deal falls through. Sources said Norfolk is attractive because it is in the same time zone as Washington and is more easily accessible to other National League East division cities than such other candidates as Las Vegas and Portland, Ore.

    Will Somerindyke, chief executive of Norfolk Baseball Co., said yesterday that Norfolk will wait to see what happens to the District's deal before renewing its bid.


    Originally posted by Peter Gammons
    Right now, if the deal does not get re-negotiated, Bud Selig is not going to play at RFK, and the word around baseball is that the Nationals will play the next two years in Norfolk, Va. Would they be called the Norfolk Vicks?



(edited by Grimis on 20.12.04 0744)


And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men....that's the meaning of Christmas, Charlie Brown.
- Linus van Pelt
JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.63
The hard part for the stadium agreement is out of the way....it truly is a Christmas miracle.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6739059/

(edited by Blanket Jackson on 21.12.04 1312)


""We may boo Santa Claus and throw frozen batteries in the end zone, but we don't throw $7 beers. We don't waste those."
-Spurs forward and Philadelphia native Malik Rose, speaking on the Pacers-Pistons incident
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3505 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Washington DC government on the local level makes Washington federal government seem almost competent... With the exception of the Redskins, does any DC franchise have any sort of success.



smark/net attack wienerville advisory holds at ORANGE alert - High (JBL is STILL WWE champion and now smarks arch enemy HHH is the World Champion. Major red threat, but the undercard seems okay. The alert holds... for now)- 9/19
JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.63
    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    Washington DC government on the local level makes Washington federal government seem almost competent... With the exception of the Redskins, does any DC franchise have any sort of success.


Well, there was that year that the Capitals got served in the Stanley Cup Finals...and if this counts as a franchise, there was the near-dynasty that Georgetown basketball had during the Thompson-Ewing-Alonzo-Iverson era.



(edited by Blanket Jackson on 21.12.04 1500)


""We may boo Santa Claus and throw frozen batteries in the end zone, but we don't throw $7 beers. We don't waste those."
-Spurs forward and Philadelphia native Malik Rose, speaking on the Pacers-Pistons incident
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.28
    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
    Washington DC government on the local level makes Washington federal government seem almost competent... With the exception of the Redskins, does any DC franchise have any sort of success.


Let's not forget your 1924 World Series Champion Washington Senators.



I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. She's a Georgetown sophomore, speaks fluent Italian, always cleared the table when it was her turn. What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My Chief of Staff Leo McGarry insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly says he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town: touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean. Leviticus 11:7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Does the whole town really have to be together to stone my brother John for planting different crops side by side? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering for wearing garments made from two different threads? Think about those questions, would you? One last thing: while you may be mistaking this for your monthly meeting of the Ignorant Tight-Ass Club, in this building, when the President stands, nobody sits." --- President Jed Bartlett, The West Wing
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 56 min.
Last activity: 56 min.
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
Baseball is back. Cropp and Mayor Williams just held a joint press conference to announce that.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1950948




The Catastrophic Annihilation War Room
And now, for a limited time only, THE BAND IS OUT ON THE FIELD!!!"

Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3505 days
Last activity: 1925 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
      Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher
      Washington DC government on the local level makes Washington federal government seem almost competent... With the exception of the Redskins, does any DC franchise have any sort of success.


    Well, there was that year that the Capitals got served in the Stanley Cup Finals...and if this counts as a franchise, there was the near-dynasty that Georgetown basketball had during the Thompson-Ewing-Alonzo-Iverson era


Can't bring myself yet to call college sports "a franchise" even though most major college sports are certainly ran like them... Speaking of DC sports, how on earth did a Mark Rypien QB led team win a SuperBowl, that must have been one heck of a defense, oh well that's another story

But getting on topic. Nice they have a place to play, so are they going to bother trying to find an owner.



The Thrill sayz "a snapshot taken in mid-air when Santa's magic sack finally bursts"... Ahh a mental image for the festive season.
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