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21.6.18 1507
The W - Movies & TV - Nacho Libre
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The Vile1
Lap cheong








Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 3350 days
Last activity: 3081 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.93
Saw it last night.

My basic impression:

Jared and Jerusha Hess know jack shit about professional wrestling and lucha libre. One would think that making a movie where it's part of the subject means you have to do some research or study up on it. The presentation was inauthentic and very novice to me. The rules were totally wrong. I didn't know hitting someone with a dropkick means the match is over.

There's some funny stuff with Black here and there, but a lot of it falls flat. The wrestling aspects were just weak.

Fun cameos:


Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
Silver King as Ramses, the lucha libre champion that Nacho faces at the end.

The Human Tornado has a cameo as "El Snowflake."
Promote this thread!
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

Since last post: 455 days
Last activity: 339 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.44
You know when I first saw a preview for this movie I told myself, whether it's funny or not it'll be a delight to see the thread at some of these boards where the wrestling fans go so far as to give star ratings to the "matches" in it.

In other words I really don't think it matters how close to actual lucha they come for the general public, just that the movie is funny. Having not seen it yet I can't say if it is or not though.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 3324 days
Last activity: 3258 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.21
I really think it's silly to expect a rigourous reconstruction of Lucha Libre here. The movie stars Jack Black as a successful pro wrestler, fer Cripes' sakes.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
How did YOU get to see this movie early and I did not get see this movie yet? The world is not fair to me!

    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    I really think it's silly to expect a rigourous reconstruction of Lucha Libre here.


FWIW, Hess has been playing up "I really love lucha libre and especially the old Santo movies" in interviews, so you'd think it'd be something resembling it.



thecubsfan.com - CMLLBlog
The Vile1
Lap cheong








Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 3350 days
Last activity: 3081 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.93
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    I really think it's silly to expect a rigourous reconstruction of Lucha Libre here. The movie stars Jack Black as a successful pro wrestler, fer Cripes' sakes.


Successful is the last word you would use to describe Black's character for this movie.

I also don't think it's silly at all. I wasn't expecting it to be rigorous, but I simply got the impression that the Hesses really don't watch any wrestling at all and didn't do any homework.

Aren't military movies and other things supposed to have advisors and such for authenticity? Also, in other movies, or sports movies, they don't screw up the rules this badly.



    You know when I first saw a preview for this movie I told myself, whether it's funny or not it'll be a delight to see the thread at some of these boards where the wrestling fans go so far as to give star ratings to the "matches" in it.


Well the deal is, this is supposed to be a significant part of the movie. The sequences themselves get tiresome very quickly.



    In other words I really don't think it matters how close to actual lucha they come for the general public, just that the movie is funny. Having not seen it yet I can't say if it is or not though.


I think kids and families might like it. Shooting this movie in the style of Napoleon Dynamite doesn't do it any favors. There's a lot of juvenile toilet humor and farting that seems to be in there for the sake of the kiddies.
StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 20 hours
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
    Originally posted by The Vile1
    Aren't military movies and other things supposed to have advisors and such for authenticity? Also, in other movies, or sports movies, they don't screw up the rules this badly.


Maybe its me, but when I go to see a MILITARY movie, its usually, USUALLY an action/suspense movie where the action NEEDS to be realistic to help the movie along. Not sure this movie NEEDS that.

Plus, I never confused the previews for Nacho Libre for Hunt For Red October.
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1409 days
Last activity: 1409 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
      Originally posted by The Vile1
      Aren't military movies and other things supposed to have advisors and such for authenticity? Also, in other movies, or sports movies, they don't screw up the rules this badly.


    Maybe its me, but when I go to see a MILITARY movie, its usually, USUALLY an action/suspense movie where the action NEEDS to be realistic to help the movie along. Not sure this movie NEEDS that.

    Plus, I never confused the previews for Nacho Libre for Hunt For Red October.


NOTE: I didn't see the movie, so I don't know specifically what "rules" weren't followed. The person starting the thread didn't much elaborate beyond "dropkicks don't end matches."

THAT SAID, if you went to see The Natural, or Eight Men Out, or Major League, or any of the other billion baseball movies, and the guys were playing with five bases, or counted a ball bouncing over the fence as a homerun instead of a double, wouldn't you be a little annoyed, even though those things are pretty irrelevent to the point of those movies?

I'm not much of a Jack Black fan and I don't remember ever seeing a good movie in theaters involving pro wrestling in any way, so I'll probably pass on this flick. But if I did pay to see it I'd expect a little research, the most minor of research, to at least be apparent.
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

Since last post: 455 days
Last activity: 339 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.44
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      Originally posted by StaggerLee
        Originally posted by The Vile1
        Aren't military movies and other things supposed to have advisors and such for authenticity? Also, in other movies, or sports movies, they don't screw up the rules this badly.


      Maybe its me, but when I go to see a MILITARY movie, its usually, USUALLY an action/suspense movie where the action NEEDS to be realistic to help the movie along. Not sure this movie NEEDS that.

      Plus, I never confused the previews for Nacho Libre for Hunt For Red October.


    NOTE: I didn't see the movie, so I don't know specifically what "rules" weren't followed. The person starting the thread didn't much elaborate beyond "dropkicks don't end matches."

    THAT SAID, if you went to see The Natural, or Eight Men Out, or Major League, or any of the other billion baseball movies, and the guys were playing with five bases, or counted a ball bouncing over the fence as a homerun instead of a double, wouldn't you be a little annoyed, even though those things are pretty irrelevent to the point of those movies?

    I'm not much of a Jack Black fan and I don't remember ever seeing a good movie in theaters involving pro wrestling in any way, so I'll probably pass on this flick. But if I did pay to see it I'd expect a little research, the most minor of research, to at least be apparent.


While I understand, you must also notice the slight difference between the general public reaction to a baseball movie, a sport which 99.99999% of Americans know, to a Lucha movie, something I think perhaps half the people on this board understand and a couple more somewhere in North Dakota. I personally wouldn't be too worried about a backlash from the huge American lucha fanbase if I didn't get the facts right, but that's just me.

complaining about this is kinda like watching Naked Gun and bitching that the real cops don't act like that.
AWArulz
Scrapple








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 1 day
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.66
You know, thing brings up a good point - and I suppose it reflects on this as well. I don't think the international rules of tetherball were followed in Napoleon Dynamite either.

It's a frickin' comedy, for goodness sake. It's got to be more accurate than No Holds Barred.




We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.
The Vile1
Lap cheong








Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 3350 days
Last activity: 3081 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.93
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    You know, thing brings up a good point - and I suppose it reflects on this as well. I don't think the international rules of tetherball were followed in Napoleon Dynamite either.

    It's a frickin' comedy, for goodness sake. It's got to be more accurate than No Holds Barred.


Even Dodgeball established and followed the rules of dodgeball. That's all I have to say about the com-o-dee argument.

Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 829 days
Last activity: 89 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    You know, thing brings up a good point - and I suppose it reflects on this as well. I don't think the international rules of tetherball were followed in Napoleon Dynamite either.

    It's a frickin' comedy, for goodness sake. It's got to be more accurate than No Holds Barred.


But Napolean Dynamite wasn't marketed towards the international tetherball community though. At least a significant portion of Nacho's audience are supposed to be wrestling fans, who will be too distracted by the crap they made up to pay attention to the jokes. It's almost like the people making the movie said "This movie's going to be a flop, let's not even waste our time doing it right..."

And to compare a ball bouncing over the wall being a home run to this stuff isn't accurate either. The correct comparison to this movie would be if he was complaining that they DQ'd people for closed fists or something. That would be a minor thing and would be ignored by even most wrestling fans. Major League would have had to have something like "the bats were made of cheese" and "three teams play at once" to get these to the same level.

Establishing and following the rules of Dodgeball is what kept "Dodgeball" as a comedy and not two hours of complete stupidity.


Tribal Prophet
samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 1709 days
Last activity: 1701 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.87
Just remember the pro wrestling is a fake sport and has no actual rules except that you must do what the storyline tells you to do. I recall a match once where the first guy to do a powerbomb won. Granted, a dropkick is kind of ridiculous compared to a powerbomb. But I'd say that arguing the legitimacy of rules of a fake sport as seen in a comedy movie is equally ridiculous.



Ken Kennedy debuted a new finisher: Jeff Hardy fans will insist on calling it the Swanton Bomb, but it looks WAY more devastating when not performed by a 180-pound fruitcake.
-Rick Scaia 06.12.2006
The Vile1
Lap cheong








Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 3350 days
Last activity: 3081 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.93
    Originally posted by samoflange
    Just remember the pro wrestling is a fake sport and has no actual rules except that you must do what the storyline tells you to do. I recall a match once where the first guy to do a powerbomb won. Granted, a dropkick is kind of ridiculous compared to a powerbomb. But I'd say that arguing the legitimacy of rules of a fake sport as seen in a comedy movie is equally ridiculous.


Pro wrestling is not presented as "fake" in the movie. Nothing is ever said that you can win a match just by using a dropkick. It's just confusing that they have all these matches and they never establish what the rules are. And when they lose its like, WTF?! where was the pin, where was the submission?

Lucha-libre, pro wrestling, fake or not, there are set and established rules to win a match.

The movie never even touched on them so it was confusing when you don't even know what Nacho had to do in order to win the match.

Even if other sports movies aren't dealing with a fake sport, they follow the rules of said sport without these wacky and nonsensical happenings.
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 513 days
Last activity: 54 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.07

I've heard that the depiction of a Mexican monastery is very poor indeed. I don't see how anyone can make a movie, let alone a COMEDY for Groucho's sake and not make it as real as possible. Because we all know the reason people go to movies like this is to see realism, not escapism.

I bet you hated "A Day At The Races" because Harpo wasn't realistic as a jockey.





As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004
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As of 2/27/06: 202 pounds "I've lost a heavyweight"
As of 5/24/06: 216 pounds
AWArulz
Scrapple








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 1 day
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.66
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    But Napolean Dynamite wasn't marketed towards the international tetherball community though. At least a significant portion of Nacho's audience are supposed to be wrestling fans, who will be too distracted by the crap they made up to pay attention to the jokes.


Why is it you think this? Because Nacho had a couple ads on Raw? There are a heck of a lot of ads running and have run for Nacho - for example, the kids in my church are psyched for the movie - and I can tell you none of them care a whit about wrestling. Oh, now, they like Mucha Lucha or whatever it was a lot. I never saw that show, but my boy tells me it is a hoot.

They aren't psyched because of the appearance of Silver King, but because it's by the Napoleon Dynamite guys. I haven't seen it yet, but that's the same reason I'll see it. Not a Jack Black fan, so my expectations are low.




We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.
Cerebus
Scrapple








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 353 days
Last activity: 75 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.97
...and I was made fun of for how I thought about X3?

I know NOTHING about Lucha yet I find the Santo movies highly entertaining.
Mr Heel II
Lap cheong








Since: 25.2.02

Since last post: 108 days
Last activity: 7 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.89
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    It's a frickin' comedy, for goodness sake.
Actually, it's not a very good comedy either.

WOW was this bad.

WOW.

And I LOVED Napoleon Dynamite.
Dexley's Midnight Jogger
Pepperoni
Moderator








Since: 10.10.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 1599 days
Last activity: 1514 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.80
I thought the movie was pretty funny in a lot of parts. If you don't like Jack Black's regular sch-tick then you won't like this. The sound track was pretty good. A lot of beck songs and some sang by Black.
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 12 min.
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.46
I saw it last night. It's very funny, and Hess was able to rein in Black effectively.

As for not following the rules:
-the dropkick ended the match because Nacho was knocked unconscious
-the other matches were just showing them getting their asses kicked, implying that there were not going to be any further momentum shifts
-619 by the caveman!



Idle hand spend time at the genitals, and you know how God hates that.
BOSsportsfan34
Pepperoni








Since: 2.1.03
From: MA

Since last post: 818 days
Last activity: 149 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.84
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    ...and I was made fun of for how I thought about X3?

    I know NOTHING about Lucha yet I find the Santo movies highly entertaining.


It wasn't so much how you though of X3 then asking someone if they were "fucking retarded" for liking it.





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