It's been a LONG time since I did some heavy threading around here. But, I am on holiday this week, so here I am. I'm very pleased to tell you all that last week, I read the Raw Recap on the SmartMarks site, and the recapper dared any female fan to explain why Lita gets cheered after all this crap she did.
Well, leave it to me to accept the challenge. The fruits of my rational thinking made it the E-mail of the week! Read for yourself and bask in my tiring quest to make sense of it all!
A good argument, but I don't think there is a deep psychological reason why people like Lita. She was introduced during the boom, she used moves no other woman was seen doing in North America at the time, and it won her a special place in the hearts of the fans. She's a franchise player, now. She's an attraction that people come out to see, and when she's not there people will be disappointed that she didn't show. Like with the Undertaker*, no amount of bad matches can erase her status now.
*I am NOT saying she's as good as Taker, or as deserving. She's obviously not on his level, but in proportion to the inferior presentation of the women's division over the years, all things being relative after all, I think it's fair to consider Lita the "Undertaker of the women's division".
Hot Virgins-The World's Most Steadily Shrinking Commodity
With Lita, I'm reminded of something someone said about her once. She's the only female wrestler in WWE that hasn't had to put up with some kind of degrading storyline, like Trish Stratus barking like a dog for Vince McMahon, or Torrie Wilson being forced to make out with her "stepmother" Dawn Marie. And Lita has a unique look. I think the fans like her individuality. And, I guess it helps that she can't make them hate her like Trish can (because Lita can't talk very well).
NOTE: The above post makes no sense. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Excuse me for being a bit mean, but why does anyone like Lita? She's not one of the five hottest women in the company. She's not in the same league as Trish or Molly Holly as a woker. She can't cut a good promo or do anything else that makes her very likeable. I don't understand this phenomenon at all. Maybe she has some unique charisma that eludes me or something.
Meh...they blew their chance to turn Lita heel by having her saying she came up with everything all to get back at Matt for humilating her on his RAW Debut.
But I think the victim argument makes the most sense and now she's moved on from being a victim to a woman who takes matters into her own hands.
We've all seen it in any number of lifetime movies.
Chick gets raped or beaten by husband. She cowers and ultimatley she gains self respected and then kills the rapist or abusive husband and is loved by all.
But hey I like Lita because I still think she's hot. I like the whole punk chick look she has. Granted her skills are no where they once were, but she's still decent enough in the ring and that DDT and Sleeper she now uses are pretty good finishers.
Don't forget the Chyna factor. A while back, when Chyna was super over, she did everything she could for a while to give Lita the rub in a Big Sister kinda way, as if to let the fans know that Chyna thought Lita was the future of women's wresting or something.
Now, this might sound a bit harsh, but think about it.
Why do female fans like Lita? Some of Ringmistress's points seem to boil down to one thing. They identify with her. Is this a good thing? Probably not. Why? Well, for many reasons. She's a bad wrestler, so she's not that entertaining in the ring. She's a bad talker, so she's not that entertaining on the mic. And character-wise (okay, all this kayfabe), she's proven herself to be unfaithful, disloyal and careless.
Does anyone really look up to her as a role-model? (I guess they do if they really want to be unfaithful, disloyal, and careless.) Or do they just see in her some kind of celebrity justification for their own established or potential flaws? Like, hey, I might be a weak-willed, gullible, marble-mouthed punch-puller, but at least I've got a cool crop-top T-shirt and a mean looking scowl.
Girl power? I don't think so.
(edited by Stilton on 25.11.04 0135) The Goal: SLACK The Method: The Casting Out of False Prophets The Weapon: Time Control The Motto: "Fuck Them All of they Can't Take a Joke"
It's also worth pointing out that, when she beat Stephanie McMahon for the Women's title (shudder) about four years ago, Lita was one of the most over names in the company. And that was at the time that you had Stone Cold, Mankind, The Rock, DX, Hardyz, etc.
I'm not saying that she should be popular now just because of what happened in 2000, but she still probably has a decent following out there. And personally, if she would have kept at the "Stone Cold Lita" gimmick that she showed at Survivor Series, I think she'd have a chance to win fans over again.
Lita wasn't getting big reactions during the Kane storyline. They were chanting "slut" at her every week.
I think the reason Lita has started to be cheered so much lately is because Trish is a really good heel and has done a lot to antagonize her and the fans ("your a bunch of rednecks ... but you're still my fans."). Naturally they'd cheer for her to get hers. Plus they have the long history that people remember from the Attitude Era.
I'm just glad Lita has yet to drop anyone on their head in her latest return to the ring.
"When did they pass a law that says the people who make my sandwich have to be wearing gloves? I'm not comfortable with this. I don't want glove residue all over my food; it's not sanitary. Who knows where these gloves have been?" - George Carlin
Originally posted by StiltonDon't forget the Chyna factor. A while back, when Chyna was super over, she did everything she could for a while to give Lita the rub in a Big Sister kinda way, as if to let the fans know that Chyna thought Lita was the future of women's wresting or something.
Up until they feuded in 2001, when Chyna didn't want to be in the women's division in the first place so she outright refused to let any of the other girls look like they were in her league. She did almost everything possible to make Lita look like a chump.
I have to say it's true that Lita and Trish have been feuding on and off for a long time now without much resolution actually. It's also true that Lita WAS the only diva who hasn't done the degrading storyline thing that most divas eventually do. I'm going by a personal standpoint.
I agree with the rest of you guys on how Trish has been. It seems it was only after Christian she's become a better heel. I'll admit I was crazy happy when Lita beat Steph for the Women's title a few years back. But I guess it's more because of how a character evolves over time that really sours me on Lita now. Trish evolved, Lita's still stuck in Team Extreme (there is no Team anymore). Maybe that's the big reason why I've been more appreciative of Trish Stratus. She grew up, I guess.
Originally posted by BigSteveExcuse me for being a bit mean, but why does anyone like Lita? She's not one of the five hottest women in the company. She's not in the same league as Trish or Molly Holly as a woker. She can't cut a good promo or do anything else that makes her very likeable. I don't understand this phenomenon at all. Maybe she has some unique charisma that eludes me or something.
I made a post similar to this in another Lita thread a while back, and I recall being told by one poster that it was due to her "uniqueness" from the other divas, and shown a picture of her by another from her 'thong above pants' days. I guess the 2nd one was buyable in regards to the male fanbase. I'm glad someone else sees beyond the hype and ridiculousness(into the lack of real skill of any type and borderline looks), but yeah, those reasons I guess will have to suffice.
Wow RM you trying to decode Lita popularity, I think it would be easier trying to decode Revelations part of the bible lol. I really think the explanations falls on her fans more than anything. They are really different than normal wrestling fans, most wrestling fans have their favorites but have the ability to go with the flow as a wrestling character evolves from face to heel & having different characters & personalities. I think Lita fans have a difficulty of separating Amy & Lita... You guys all mentioned hints or at times giant neon signs of clues to a seemingly Lita heel turn these past months. The thing is you guys are wrestling fans & picked up on it. Lita fans ignore it to support her no matter what, it's funny how a few weeks ago in a match vs. Molly, Lawler tore her apart about what she did over the past few months & while it's all true he was kind of like "How the hell is she the face?"
This reminds me when Matt went to Raw, I just knew that even if they try there is no way he would be able to break away from Lita & be as independent as he was on SD. A lot thought I was crazy, I said "Just Watch". They tried, they had him feuding with Lita, had him in non-Lita related storylines but their fans are way too connected to them in a personal life manner that he can slam a steel cage door on her head & they would shrug it off... I got a real funny example, a friend of mine went to Raw about a year ago to the day. Matt was on Raw feuding with Lita. She was sitting next to a Lita fan who had this big Lita loves Matt sign. She made some friendly conversation. Asked when did you make the sign, LF responds "This week". She asked You do know Matt attacked her! LitaFan looked at her, rolled her eyes & said "That's just a storyline, they're still a couple in real life" HA my friend got TOLD
I do think this story kind of connects to why Lita is still popular even though she's done a lot of stupid stuff character wise. I could see Stilton or RM sitting next to this Lita fans & saying Wow she got pregnant by Kane the same week she was with Matt, accepting Matt's ring without telling him. That's pretty bad of her! As Lita fan responds "She's not really pregnant & she's still a real life couple with Matt!CHEER LITA!"... That's good & bad for her. Great for visor sales as you have a cult following who'll always cheer you. Bad for wrestling wise as you have to play this one character without any change, can't really say there's much change with this New Lita, it's Lita with less selling physically and facially(Just what Lita needs less ring-selling) It's horrible for the people around her as it's been proven that the Lita character will never be a good lead character to build a division around.
smark/net attack wienerville advisory holds at ORANGE alert - High (JBL is STILL WWE champion and now smarks arch enemy HHH is the World Champion. Major red threat, but the undercard seems okay. The alert holds... for now)- 9/19
Most Diva marks are the same, as I'm sure NHS is well aware, places like Stratusfied (he/she must visit there, surely?) show that those kinds of people are all fans of that diva first and then wrestling second - its not just limited to Lita marks.
Trish marks don't think 'face Trish' was as stale as 3 year old loaves of Hovis by the time her much needed heel turn arrived at WM and to this day many think she's a poor heel and better bland generic face. They long for her to go back being old face Trish - hardly "going with the flow" - I think NHS chats to too many Trish marks and fansite owners LOL. Her best matches are when she loses - why? Because she makes a better loser, esp. as a face, seeing her win got so blase and dull, but having her lose was like, cool man. Just read any column from any Trish fansite and then one from a Lita fansite - opposite arguements all the time and both through rose-tinted glasses and utter BS overall.
Why all the hatred between their fans? People are leaving forums because of this feud and the lies coming out as some form of propaganda.
Trish makes an incredible heel, one reason Lita is still the face - Trish marks seem to see that Lita should be heel but not appreciate the good work Trish heel does but only want Lita heel so that their darlings Victoria and Trish can be a tandem face team. Trish & Lita as a heel team, turning Molly a face would be best - have the swerve at the end of this fued being Lita joining Trish on the darkside.
Dat said, RM makes good points in her email to that site. Lita is popular and only Trish marks seem to resent it and see it as a bad thing - having support is not bad thing as we all know how easy to manipulate wrestling marks it is - support can be turned either way so easy these days. Peronsally I sea Lita as a female Edge - so similar - excpet NHS loves one and hates the other with passion. Edge is a poor wrestler, seller, talker, and the like, compared to his peers, yet someone up there likes him and he has his fans but many love to hate him. Both have had tthe same injuries and fair share of flack and blind support in equal measure but are so similar to me.
I ran, I ran so far away 'cos I want you to want me and I was angry when I met you, you stupid girl
I always find ratings discussion kind of interesting, especially with the "sky is falling" mentality that goes around the internet hacks. Television numbers now can't be compared to the numbers of even just 3 years ago.