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The W - Baseball - MVP discussion time....
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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.24
Who should win the MVPs this season?

I think Rolen or Pujols in the National League and the American league, I have absolutely no clue.

Ideas? Suggestions? Arguments?



Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.

Doe, Ray, Me, Fa, So, La, TITO SANTANA!
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Gugs
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Since: 9.7.02
From: Sleep (That's where I'm a viking)

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.51
David Ortiz. End of discussion.



Bush/Cheney '04: Four more wars! Four more wars!
Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Miguel Tejada. Seriously...



spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.95
If the Tribe somehow comes from the very pits of hell to take the AL Central then I say it's Travis Hafner or bust for the AL MVP.



HELP IS ON THE WAY!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - George W. Bush 8/5/04

kazhayashi81
Potato korv








Since: 17.6.02
From: Buenos Aires, Argentina

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.95
I'd say you can't just pass off either Michael Young or Hank Blalock....





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Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.75
Geez, since everyone's looking at this objectively..BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

NO ONE is a runaway favorite in the AL. Here are AL rankings for the people mentioned and Vlad Guerrero (Minus the Texas players mentioned. Hank Blalock??? The guy's batting .269 for pete's sake!):

Player BA HR RBI H OPS
Ortiz 13 1 2 13 4
Tejada 8 12 1 3 11
Hafner 5 12 4 27 3
Guerrero 4 8 5 5 5


I like Guerrero so far, but if Cleveland hangs close and perhaps wins the division, I'd take Hafner. Ortiz and Ramirez are too close for one of them to win. And, of course, Ichiro is on that record-breaking pace.

But since everyone's picking their hometown hero (except for spf), then I'm taking Pudge. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! I can't even type that without laughing.




(edited by Reverend J Shaft on 16.8.04 1359)
Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
Rolen should get the NL award, but him, Pujols, and Edmonds could cancel each other out and let Barry Bonds or Adrian Beltre sneak into the race.

As far as the AL goes...They just gave the MVP award to a non-playoff guy last year, so I don't think that they will again this year, unless it's from a team like the Indians or Rangers. I think Vlad could win it, he's certainly been deserving of it in the past, and is putting up the numbers to win it.



spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.95
    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
    But since everyone's picking their hometown hero (except for spf)

There's really no one on the Sox who deserves it, even if they win the division. Konerko has had a great year, but not MVP worthy. Valentin has been huge for them but totally spotty and hitting something like .230 or so. Hell, if I had to vote for who the MVP of this team was right now I would say either Aaron Rowand or Shingo Takatsu. And jeebus knows neither of them deserves it.

I know some people are religiously opposed to the idea, but if the A's take the West, what about Mulder?



HELP IS ON THE WAY!
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - George W. Bush 8/5/04

Gugs
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Since: 9.7.02
From: Sleep (That's where I'm a viking)

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.51
    Originally posted by spf2119
    I know some people are religiously opposed to the idea, but if the A's take the West, what about Mulder?


If we're letting pitchers in, then the answer moves from "David Ortiz, end of discussion" to "Curt Schilling, and everyone knows it."



Bush/Cheney '04: Four more wars! Four more wars!
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.34
    Originally posted by Grimis
    Miguel Tejada. Seriously...


Why? He is not having the best season on his own team, let alone the entire league.

If I had a ballot right now at this very moment:

1. Manny Ramirez, Red Sox
2. Vlad Guerrero, Angels
3. Travis Hafner, Indians
4. Melvin Mora, Orioles
5. David Ortiz, Red Sox
6. Gary Sheffield, Yankees
7. Miguel Tejada, Orioles
8. Carlos Guillen, Tigers
9. Hideki Matsui, Yankees
10. Johan Santana, Twins (starting to seriously run away with the AL Cy Young and everyone's still focused on Mulder and Schilling)

And for the NL

1. Barry Bonds, Giants
2. Albert Pujols, Cardinals
3. Scott Rolen, Cardinals

Look:

AB BB HR RBI AVG OBP SLG
Bonds 299 168 31 72 .353 .605 .774
Pujols 433 61 36 87 .321 .405 .642
Rolen 409 54 28 102 .328 .411 .614


So how about no on Rolen and Pujols are better than Bonds? They aren't even in his league. As good as both of them are, he is REMARKABLY better. It's really quite absurd.

And past them it doesn't really matter, although it's worth noting the National League has a much stronger group of MVP and Cy Young candidates than the AL does.

(edited by ScottChrist on 17.8.04 0312)


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Whitebacon
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
    Originally posted by ScottChrist
    And past them it doesn't really matter, although it's worth nothing the National League has a much stronger group of MVP and Cy Young candidates than the AL does.


If anyone else besides Jason Schmidt wins the Cy Young this year, it will be a travesty. And Johan Santana is the dark horse candidate for the Cy, even though he shouldn't be.



Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
    Originally posted by ScottChrist
    Why? He is not having the best season on his own team, let alone the entire league
But it's not a player of the year award(don't we have this discussion Every year?)

Tejada makes the Orioles go. This team would be thirty games under .500 without him the way he plays. That's why he beat out everyone else to win the MVP in '02...

And you could make an argument for Melvin Mora as well.



SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.34
    Originally posted by Whitebacon
    And Johan Santana is the dark horse candidate for the Cy, even though he shouldn't be.


See, kind of. Only because no one's paying attention. The darkhorse is really Joe Nathan IMO.

More fun with pre tags!

IP ERA WHIP K W-L
Santana 166 3.25 1.01 190 12-6
Schilling 168 3.60 1.16 143 14-6
Mulder 177 3.71 1.23 119 15-4


After a slow start, Santana has been like Big Unitcito.



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Whitebacon
Boudin blanc








Since: 12.1.02
From: Fresno, CA

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
    Originally posted by ScottChrist
      Originally posted by Whitebacon
      And Johan Santana is the dark horse candidate for the Cy, even though he shouldn't be.


    See, kind of. Only because no one's paying attention. The dark horse is really Joe Nathan IMO.

    More fun with pre tags!

    IP ERA WHIP K W-L
    Santana 166 3.25 1.01 190 12-6
    Schilling 168 3.60 1.16 143 14-6
    Mulder 177 3.71 1.23 119 15-4


    After a slow start, Santana has been like Big Unitcito.


That's why I say he shouldn't be. He's been one of the top five pitchers in baseball for the better part of this season. He's just forgotten about because of the team he plays for, Nathan too. That guy is putting up phenomenal numbers, better than Gagne last year even, except for his one blown save, and probably fewer K's.



StaggerLee
Scrapple








Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.24
    Originally posted by ScottChrist
    1. Barry Bonds, Giants
    2. Albert Pujols, Cardinals
    3. Scott Rolen, Cardinals

    Look:

    AB BB HR RBI AVG OBP SLG
    Bonds 299 168 31 72 .353 .605 .774
    Pujols 433 61 36 87 .321 .405 .642
    Rolen 409 54 28 102 .328 .411 .614


    So how about no on Rolen and Pujols are better than Bonds? They aren't even in his league. As good as both of them are, he is REMARKABLY better. It's really quite absurd.


How is OBP figured? Are his walks, most of which are intentional, granted, but are they included in his OBP? If so, then look at the other numbers a little closer. Bonds has 31 homers and 72 RBI. Rolen has 3 less homers, yet has 30 more RBI. Pujols is just solid. There was a story in the Post Dispatch about comparing stats for teams, and this Cardinals team offensively is in the top 4 of the past like 50 years or something like that.

ANYHOW, I am not even a Cardinals fan, I should really be trying to convince you all that Gary SHeffield should be the AL MVP, but thats an excercise in futility.

(edited by StaggerLee on 16.8.04 2014)


Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.

Doe, Ray, Me, Fa, So, La, TITO SANTANA!
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 1272 days
Last activity: 606 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.34
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    How is OBP figured? Are his walks, most of which are intentional, granted, but are they included in his OBP?


Yes. He's on base sixty percent of the time. He gives his team a chance to score in sixty percent of his at-bats. He RARELY makes an out.


    If so, then look at the other numbers a little closer. Bonds has 31 homers and 72 RBI. Rolen has 3 less homers, yet has 30 more RBI. Pujols is just solid.


Bonds has done that in 110 less official at-bats than Rolen and 134 less than Pujols. His numbers are astonishingly better than two guys who are having great, and in any other world MVP-caliber, seasons.



dotcom // cubs.org // let's go hero
jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 43 days
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87
    Originally posted by Grimis
    But it's not a player of the year award(don't we have this discussion Every year?)
Didn't Arod throw this arguement out last year?

IMO, Vlad, Manny, Hafner, Ortiz, or Shef. If you throw in the teams that go nowhere, include Huff, Suzuki, or Pudge.

In the NL, Bonds, Pujols, Drew, and Beltre. No one else could possibly warrant consideration past those 4.



"Richard Grieco, you see right through me."
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.30
If a Yankee were to win, I'd say Matsui, mainly because he's the bat I fear most in that line-up. However, A-Rod and Sheffield will cancel him out.
Ramirez went bad for a month, so I doubt the voters go for him. However, if Ortiz does what he did last season and throws the Red Sox on his back for 6 weeks to finish at .315 45 145, it would be tough for him not to get the award.
Mulder's problem is that he's having a very good year, but he's not having a historic season. Historic seasons are the only way pitchers get the MVP.
If the Orioles are within 5 in September, then Tejada gets into the mix. The difference between this year and '02 for him is he went lights out on a team that won 20 in a row and he helped carry to a division title. Battling Tampa for 3rd doesn't have the same imagery.
Vlad is always a strong contender. Of course, it will be interesting to see how he reacts in late season games that have everything riding on them.
Thus, due to financial interests, I take Ortiz as A.L. MVP, as unless he carries the Red Sox to the playoffs and beyond, I lose money.
In the N.L., the Cardinals cancel each other out. Bonds wins easily if the Giants make the playoffs, as without him, they are the D-Backs. If the Giants fade, J.D. Drew could be a dark horse contender.



Still pondering why there was no public backlash for Jimmy Hart's advocation of self canibalism on the first Wrestling Album.
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.81
They should give the AL award to a guy from a playoff team this year. Since the Yankees are the only sure bet playoff team as of now, it should be one of them.

While Matsui and A-Rod are great at compiling numbers, the MVP of this team is Sheffield. He has carried them this year. He has been great in the clutch with 15 GWRBIs while playing with a bad shoulder.

I'm also not a fan of players from one team cancelling each other out. Since it looks like Pujols and Rolen are the top two, they should finish 1-2.
Corajudo
Frankfurter








Since: 7.11.02
From: Dallas, TX

Since last post: 51 days
Last activity: 2 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.84
    Originally posted by skorpio17
    They should give the AL award to a guy from a playoff team this year. Since the Yankees are the only sure bet playoff team as of now, it should be one of them.

    While Matsui and A-Rod are great at compiling numbers, the MVP of this team is Sheffield. He has carried them this year. He has been great in the clutch with 15 GWRBIs while playing with a bad shoulder.

    I'm also not a fan of players from one team cancelling each other out. Since it looks like Pujols and Rolen are the top two, they should finish 1-2.


So, since the AL MVP should be from a playoff team and the AL MVP should be a Yankee, then the Yankees will be the only AL playoff team? That is what I gathered from your post. Heaven forbid that the MVP put up massive numbers down the stretch to carry his team on his back to a playoff berth.

Also, it doesn't suprise me to see an argument for clutch hitting in a post like this. I think that my brain just fell asleep in a fit of self-preservation...
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