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31.10.14 0219
The W - Pro Wrestling - Murderer?! COOL!
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BRUTLE
Linguica








Since: 27.8.02
From: Staten Island, New York

Since last post: 4387 days
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#1 Posted on
Alright, I can't believe this huge anti-murder angle movement here by the "Internet Folk". Wrestling is fake, we all know it. A great point was made about CSI being about murder, and how is this different? When people defend wrestling against the naysayers, they ALWAYS use the excuse "Movies are fake, but you enjoy them...and WE can't watch wrestling BECAUSE it is fake? It's entertaining, and thats the bottom line". Now the same excuse isn't valid for you wrestling fans? It's entertainment, and it can be justified....

Kane is not Triple H. Nor is he Hulk Hogan, or The Rock, or anybody else. Kane HAS a psychotic history. Look at the man!! He wears a mask and freaky ass bondage gear! Think about how it looks when you say "a murder angle has gone too far". LOOK AT KANE! He was burned to near death in a fire that killed his mother and father! This is all part of (in my opinion) the GREAT explanation to the Undertaker/Paul Bearer/Kane history. This is just the latest chapter. Kane is not a one-dimensional fool doing "Kane-aroonies". He has a dark, deep history, and we need to know more about it, from a character standpoint. If this was The Rock or something, then OK. That would be stupid and over-the-top. But this is one of the most troubled characters in the WWE's history. I KNOW I speak alone on this, but I am looking forward to the revealing of this portion of Kane's past. Sorry!
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Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

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#2 Posted on
Interesting thought... Maybe I will have to reconsider... Though my gut still tells me that a "MURDER!" angle belongs on a show like CSI... and not a wrestling show...



Craig Reade
"Pool Boy"

Detroit Lions! 1-3!
On the road to oh and sixt... Wha?
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 18 days
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#3 Posted on
If WWE had truly top flight writers who might be capable of dealing with all the nuance needed for such a storyline, I might think this could rock. However, considering the current propensity to swing the sledgehammer of plot wildly about themselves, I really don't think anything good can come of this storyline.



Let Cincy have Jauron:
Green Bay34, Chicago 21
Bears go to 2-3 (bye week, thank God)

Simba
Frankfurter








Since: 7.8.02
From: Boston, MA

Since last post: 2512 days
Last activity: 2120 days
#4 Posted on
I agree with a lot of points you make from a storyline perspective. The main problem I have is that they pretty much abandoned his "hellfire and brimstone" side and basically made him a "lovable freak". No mention of his past has been made (to my knowledge) in quite some time. I don't even think they've mentioned that he's UT's brother in quite a while. I'm all for continuity, but you just can't conveniently add or subtract MAJOR character details whenever you feel like it.



Sign #1,342 that I watch too much wrestling: I have a framed photo of WWE Headquarters in my living room. Chixdiggit.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1437 days
Last activity: 345 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
See this thread's twin for my thoughts on the CSI comparison.

Brutle, I think you might have a point with Kane being a dark character. But it's not gonna work, because you're expecting a team of monkeys to write Dickens. It ain't gonna happen.

(Okay, this post was really an excuse for a Simpsons reference. "It was the best of times... it was the BLURST of times!! Why you stupid monkey!!")



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex

"Was he no-selling?" - Me
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 487 days
Last activity: 487 days
#6 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    See this thread's twin for my thoughts on the CSI comparison.

    Brutle, I think you might have a point with Kane being a dark character. But it's not gonna work, because you're expecting a team of monkeys to write Dickens. It ain't gonna happen.

    (Okay, this post was really an excuse for a Simpsons reference. "It was the best of times... it was the BLURST of times!! Why you stupid monkey!!")






You mean Vince has finally hired the random booking monkey that used to book WCW? Oh well, at least the monkey is further evolved than Russo was during his tenure in McMahonland.



I want you to know, I agree with everything I've just said.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1437 days
Last activity: 345 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Ha ha!! I think that should be a new character on RAW. The random booking monkey could spin the "Wheel of Plot" and that would decide the direction of the show for the week. Then next week, we do it all over again!

"Bubba Ray, tonight you'll be feuding with..."

*spin*

"Howard Finkle, because you..."

*spin*

"made fun of..."

*spin*

"his slight speech impediment!"





"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex

"Was he no-selling?" - Me
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2683 days
Last activity: 2682 days
#8 Posted on
LOL! Brutle, you certainly have a damn good point (touche` to my thread). The way the murder thing came about though, right after the great TLC match left a bad taste in my mouth, so I vented the frustrations. But, I'm willing to see what happens first, then I'll find out if I was right or not.

Ringmistress



Ringmistress - A bitch among heels.
Parts Unknown
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

Since last post: 58 days
Last activity: 1 day
#9 Posted on
Here is the reason why the angle sucks: We know how it will end. Kane will be absolved and HHH will get heel heat for accusing him. This has been a recurring angle in wrestling for years, just with different players and stakes - remember Flair's photos of Elizabeth feeding him strawberries?

There's only one way, IMHO, that this angle could work: if it turned out that HHH was right and Kane was a murderer and he became a psychopathic telekinetic magical zombie again.

But that ain't a-happenin.



"Oh, i'll never understand this emptiness...but I'll never really try and understand, I guess." - Whiskeytown, Sit and Listen to the Rain
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 14 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by Parts Unknown
    Here is the reason why the angle sucks: We know how it will end. Kane will be absolved and HHH will get heel heat for accusing him.


So you go into movies expecting the criminals to win? You play video games expecting the villian to take over the world? Entertainment by default is derivative. It's not about how it's going to end, it's about what happens in the meantime. When is the last time something in any medium of entertainment actually ended in a way that nothing else has before? The movie Memento is the only thing I can think of and I don't especially want to see a show start with Kane beating HHH for the title and end with HHH spilling coffee on Kane to setup a title feud.


Simba: The mentioned Kane as The Undertaker's brother a few episodes ago when "a relative of a Smackdown talent" was going to jump ship and they were debating who it might be.


And Ringmistress, I initially felt the same way. The ending of the show pissed me off and left a bad taste in my mouth but then I realized I was letting 30 second ruin over 2 hours of a show that I enjoyed.
Teppan-Yaki
Pepperoni








Since: 28.6.02

Since last post: 945 days
Last activity: 915 days
#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    Ha ha!! I think that should be a new character on RAW. The random booking monkey could spin the "Wheel of Plot" and that would decide the direction of the show for the week. Then next week, we do it all over again!

    "Bubba Ray, tonight you'll be feuding with..."

    *spin*

    "Howard Finkle, because you..."

    *spin*

    "made fun of..."

    *spin*

    "his slight speech impediment!"




*NOW* I know where I've seen this before; pogo.com's "Primetime Pitch," which is done in conjunction with Jellyvision (makers of You Don't Know Jack) is the same way. Have a premise, a plot twist and one or two stars, and make a show.

In this case, AsteroidBoy made the primetime show "Finkle, Dinkle Do!"



"People say, how can I help on this war against terror? How can I fight evil? You can do so by mentoring a child; by going into a shut-in's house and say I love you."
George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Sept. 19, 2002
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
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#12 Posted on
They could go all social commentary on us and have Kane get imprisoned for the murder of young Katie Fick and put on Death Row, despite his continued pleas of innocence. Kane will need to find a way to get his message out there, so he can become a prison journalist and tell his story, and then all sorts of washed-up TV celebrities can show up on Raw and support him. That would be deep stuff.

Also, they need to extend this angle past No Mercy so Survivor Series can have a rematch against HHH where the court has decided that Kane's life hangs in the balance, and if he beats HHH, he'll be allowed to live, but if he loses to HHH, he'll be put to death for the murder of Katie Fick.

This has legal precedent in wrestling - I refer you to the strange case of Meng, Monster The, who was sentenced to death for the murder of Brian Knobbs on the April 12, 2000 Thunder. Meng disappeared from television after throwing Knobbs to his death over a 30 foot balcony. Later, on the October 2, 2000 Nitro, Meng was given a chance to wrestle Bill Goldberg under a legal ruling that (as explained by Meng) would allow Meng to live if he killed Goldberg at the legal behest of Vince Russo. (Meng lost and was, presumably, executed by the state.)

Anyway, then the ads for the Survivor Series PPV could feature clips of the HHH/Kane saga thus far, as well as Kane on Death Row, and the song for Survivor Series that the ads would be set to could be "Murder Was the Case" and the ads could end with Kane saying "I'm innocent! I'm innocent! I'm innocent!" like Snoop on the Video Music Awards in '94. Alternately, they could just use that live version of the song and have Snoop saying "I'm innocent!" over images of the imprisoned Kane. Whichever best reflects the drama of the angle.

So you see, with possibilities like this or HHH having set everything up ten years ago to fool Kane, it would be crazy not to wait and see how awesome this is going to be.
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 14 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#13 Posted on
Ok, I don't know about anyone else but I'm going to jump on the bandwagon early and turn a damn profit. Who wants to buy a FREE KANE bumpersticker?

And Dr. Unlikely: Should we expect to see Rage Against the Machine reform to perform on Raw soon?
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1437 days
Last activity: 345 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Dr Unlikely, that's why you're by far my favorite poster on this board.

I'm guessing that they're now auditioning young boys from the Bronx to play the scrappy kid who hooks up with a group Canadian do-gooders to clear Kane's good name in 20 years. Kane will be awarded an honorary World title belt, upon his release from prison. A bulked-up Edward Norton will play him in the movie.

(coincidence? Ah, but what's the name of his tag-team partner!)



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex

"Was he no-selling?" - Me
The Great Thomas
Sujuk








Since: 17.6.02
From: Miami, Florida

Since last post: 3384 days
Last activity: 3384 days
#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by InVerse
    The ending of the show pissed me off and left a bad taste in my mouth but then I realized I was letting 30 second ruin over 2 hours of a show that I enjoyed.
My sentiments exactly.

On a related note, aren't you glad that Trippulaytch's promo ONLY lasted 30 seconds?





American Diversity.
deadbeater
Morcilla








Since: 12.2.02
From: Parts unknown

Since last post: 4379 days
Last activity: 4379 days
#16 Posted on
The promo should have lasted 3 MINUTES. Where are they when we really need them?



"Business has just picked up" says JR. Then right on cue, Molly enters the arena! Never was JR any better in introducing someone. --Raw 7/15

You want the title? Keep your clothes on!!!
Tragic1
Chourico








Since: 2.1.02
From: Rolling Meadows, Illinois

Since last post: 4378 days
Last activity: 4369 days
#17 Posted on

    There's only one way, IMHO, that this angle could work: if it turned out that HHH was right and Kane was a murderer and he became a psychopathic telekinetic magical zombie again.

    But that ain't a-happenin.



You mean like when Paul Bearer accused The Undertaker of killing his parents and horribly scarring his longlost brother in a fire some 20+ years ago? :)



Heck is for people that don't believe in Gosh.
Ubermonkeys
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02
From: Michigan

Since last post: 3526 days
Last activity: 3400 days
AIM:  
#18 Posted on



(edited by Ubermonkeys on 8.10.02 2118)


Cole says Raye is A buck sixty-five. Dat one cheap ho!

BRUTLE
Linguica








Since: 27.8.02
From: Staten Island, New York

Since last post: 4387 days
Last activity: 4385 days
AIM:  
#19 Posted on
In response to Simba and Ringmistress:

Simba: You're right that they have abandoned his "hellfire and brimstone" character, but I think that's what makes this all the better, actually. With Kane saying this is the happiest he's ever been, it's a perfect time for Triple H to come along and bring up a dark secret that nobody would see coming...think about it....if he was still the Kane of 1998, and somebody came out and said "Hey, you're a murderer!", I would say "No shit! Look at the friggin monster!" By showing that Kane has moved on, it opens the door for a shocking secret to come out that wouldn't be shocking 4 years ago.

Ringmistress: Even though I am trying to support this storyline, I do agree with you that it lessened the shock of the TLC match. I do see that more people are accepting the concept of this angle, just not the timing of the announcement.

I can appreciate others' opinions of this angle being crap, but I hate when people say they 'know how it's gonna turn out'. Ever since Jericho won the Undisputed title, I am never gonna say never with the WWE. They throw in JUST enough off-the wall surprises that once in a while I'm surprised how things turn out. And this could still be one...keep hope!....I just think it's funny because this has to be a record....THIRTY SECONDS into an angle, and most of the "Internet Folk" have canned it and ripped WWE a new arsehole. Wowww.
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#20 Posted on
The problem here is three fold. But before I break it down, let me say that I think the murder angle could word. I think that Brutle has a idea here, but here's why I think it won't.

1. Kane is, for reasons I can't fully understand right now, a babyface, and babyfaces don't kill people. I don't see how Kane will be able to pull it off, if the storyline is that he actually killed a person.

2. Kane is much better than he was (Working with the Book helped..), but he's a stiff actor. This is going to take some hard work and backstage viginettes to get this over and it's my opinion that Kane doesn't have the stuff to make it happen. Trips is better, but he's not that good either. Now, the 'Taker... I think Mean Mark does an awesome job on this sort of stuff. Too bad the players aren't 'Taker and Angle. Maybe Slick Ric can bring it home - but he's not the greatest at this acting crap either. Maybe I'll be impressed by Kane.

3. Gonna be tough on the live audience. Raw's live and there have to be a lot of back-stage and off-site things on this - will they sit still, make noise, go dead?

4. OK, I said 3, right? The Raw writers are pretty lame on dialog. This is going to take dialog and delivery. Delivery is up to the Dentist and Jean-Paul. Dialog is what the writers have to come up with. Have you checked out some of the existing stuff to date? A bit slow....

My 2 cents



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- ekedolphin, September Match Jukebox... (2005)
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