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The W - Football - More shit from Jesse Jackson
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BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#1 Posted on



    CHICAGO (Ticker) - Rev. Jesse Jackson has demanded that the NFL investigate the hiring of Steve Mariucci, saying the Detroit Lions violated the league's policy requiring teams to consider at least one minority for coaching positions.

    The Lions targeted Mariucci as their coach after he was fired by the San Francisco 49ers on January 15 and did not conduct any other in-person interviews.

    "Steve Mariucci may be a fine coach, and may have emerged as the selection anyway," Jackson said. "However the selection process is flawed if no minority candidates were given serious consideration as the NFL's policy dictates."

    Under criticism by civil rights attorneys Johnnie Cochran and Cyrus Mehri for their practice of hiring minorities, the NFL implemented a comprehensive program to promote diversity in their coaching and front office ranks based upon recommendations of the NFL Committee on Workplace Diversity.

    Appointed by Commissioner Paul Tagliabue on October 31, the committee is headed by Pittsburgh Steelers owner Dan Rooney. Under recommendations of the committee, NFL team owners strongly agreed on the principle that any club seeking to hire a head coach will interview one or more minority applicants for the position.

    Rooney indicted the Lions on Tuesday, saying their search "fell short of what the committee recommends for all clubs as agreed."

    Jackson believes Rooney's comment on Detroit's selection process "in itself, is the smoking gun."

    Jackson urged for Detroit to be heavily penalized, including fines and disqualification from the upcoming college draft, or else "other teams will violate the hiring process."

    There are only three black head coaches in the league with the recent hire of Marvin Lewis by the Cincinnati Bengals.

    The Lions fired Marty Mornhinweg on December 27 with the intention of hiring Mariucci, who was born and raised in Iron City, Michigan.

    Meanwhile, the 49ers have gone through a lengthy interview process, interviewing numerous black candidates and two are among the finalists for the job - defensive coordinators Ted Cottrell of the New York Jets and Greg Blache of the Chicago Bears.

    "There were several black coaches available between the end of the season and when Mariucci was fired," Jackson said. "If Detroit was earnest, why were they not given an opportunity to interview for the job? Mariucci was the only coach to have an in-person interview. (Lions) General manager Matt Millen never named any other candidate for the job."

    Knowing that Mariucci was the likely coach, several black coaches refused to interview with Millen for the job, but Jackson believes that is irrelevant.

    "Would you interview for a job you already know is going to someone else?" Jackson said. "Would you allow yourself to be used by the Lions so they could get around the NFL policy? These men are not fools and shouldn't be treated that way."


Look at that last paragraph. Look at it. Throughout he's saying that the Lion's should have interviewed black canidates then he comes in with saying that black coaches wouldn't come in for an interview because they are not fools. The Lions FIRED their old coach to hire this Marriucci. They didn't fire him to get the best canidate possible.

Whether there should be more black coaches in the NFL or not is one thing, but this article disgusts me in so many different ways. Why doesn't Jackson take up a real cause.





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Since: 1.8.02
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#2 Posted on
I totally agree. The Lions attempted to interview at LEAST 5 black canditates, including Green, and they all declined.
I am sorry, the policy is racist in of itself. Get black coaches out there that win games, and there will be more of them in the league. Team owners could give a shit about skin color if their team is in serious Super Bowl Contention.
The "Rooney Plan" is racist and should be tossed. The Lions will now be Penalized because no black coach would interview with them?
Jesse Jackson is a tool.




TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
I wonder if a significant portion of black people agree with the shit Jesse Jackson puts out? I mean, the man is an idiot always looking for something to whine about, and he does more to hurt the image of his race than help it.
ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

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#4 Posted on
Whether or not they do agree with Jackson, you would think that most people would realize that worrying about 30 jobs is not going to do a whole lot of good for most of the African-American population, and is probably not worth the time and effort.
rockdotcom_2.0
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

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#5 Posted on
I debated seriously about jumping in this one... but I figured "what the hell..."


OK, pool boy its not as easy as having black coaches winning games. There just arent that many black coaches with head coaching jobs, in the NFL (3 of 32 at the moment) or college (only Ty Willingham at Notre Dame springs to mind) to feed a pipeline. .And for years qualified black assistants werent considered or passed over. Even former head men like Ray Rhodes and Art Shell, both outstanding head coaches at one time are never even mentioned with most of the new openings. Marvin Lewis shouldve gotten a head coaching job THREE years ago by all accounts but thats neither here nor there. The fact is the in a league thats 75% black the NFL wants more black head coaches. It makes sense....


BUT, Jesse Jackson is WAY off here. Millen let it be known he contacted several black candidates who all politely refused. It was Mariuccis job and I have no qualms with that. And I dont think that anybody that follows the NFL does either.


Jesse Jackson annoys me with his bullshit, and yes Id wish he would go away....
Guru Zim
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Since: 9.12.01
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#6 Posted on
    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    The fact is the in a league thats 75% black the NFL wants more black head coaches. It makes sense....


Does it make sense? I know a lot of programmers who can't lead a team of programmers. I know there are guys that can hang drywall that can't be the foreman. There are many musicians in an orchestra who can't be the maestro...

Are you so sure that being able to play football (at any position) is the same thing as being able to lead a team?

I would expect that the ability to coach would be something that maybe .1% of the population would be able to do, regardless of race. If this were the case, I would expect to see the breakdown of coaches fall along the same lines as the population breakdown. For the sake of my really bad math skills, lets pretend that its 3/30 for a second... that's about 10%, right? Isn't that about the % that blacks make up of America? Obviously white America is over-represented if you look at it like this, but it's not as bad as the 25% model. There should be more Hispanics, Chinese, American Indian, etc.

Now, I have agreed that white coaches are probably over represented - but maybe there is a good reason.

Some players in football are not there because they are the brightest guys - some of these guys are actually very not bright. I could point out players who have tried to smuggle large amounts of drugs, guys caught with hookers, etc. Should we really be considering these guys as equally likely to become the coach as someone who is a great guy in the community and is really intelligent? I'm not saying that this is a black / white distinction - but lets be honest - some guys would be in the NFL regardless of how smart they are. If you are a 400lb monster, or can run a 4.0 second 40, they will find a way to play you.

If there is a problem, I think it is in getting high school coaches and college coaches to really push bright, black athletes at the quarterback position. If there are kids that should be playing this poition at those levels, we should work to address it there. Until more black quarterbacks make it, I don't think we are going to see a lot of new black coaches.

So why aren't there more black quarterbacks? Are there really that many coaches out there who don't want to win, that would rather put their racist ideals ahead of being the best on the field?

The only reason I ask it this way is this... I can see a scenario where a lower income player may excel and become the best that they can because "Sports is the only way out.". A middle class person may approach sports completely differently - education might be emphasized at home because affluence is Just_within_their_reach if they could only excel at school or professionally. As more African Americans move to the middle class and higher, are we more likely to see bright African American youth dedicating everything to sports - or will they become the scholar / leaders of our communities instead of our playing fields?

In fact, I think you could probably make an argument that Affirmitive Action and scholarship programs are partially responsible for this gap. Bright black kids sometimes benefit doubly from being smart and from being a minority when it comes down to scholarships and opportunities in any kind of quota system. A potential future black coach might take the path to professional life - be it Doctor, lawyer, judge, or whatever - because the way might have been made a little easier. This takes him out of the pool of people that would be available to advance to become a coach. A white kid with the same abilities might have been denied those same inroads due to AA, and had to focus on making it in a different manner - possibly in sports.

Is this a rediculous argument? It's just something to think about. Every action does have an opposite reaction. Perhaps the lack of black coaches is the reaction to an increase of affluent, successful black Americans in other areas?

Am I spinning this? Maybe a little. I'd like to see a Samoan coach at some point considering the number of Samoans that have played the game... but maybe linesmen just dont make good future coaches. Maybe its going to take until we have a great Samoan quarterback before we see a Samoan coach. I'd like to see more Chinese guys playing football - and more Indians. Are you telling me out of almost 3 billion people they can't field 20-30 guys who could make it in the NFL? There may be some race problems in the NFL - but I'm not so sure that the coaching situation is one of them.





(edited by Guru Zim on 6.2.03 1848)


Your analogy is similar to:

"They already have cars that you can drive, why not blenders?"
"I can already write with my hands, why not my pancreas?"
"They already have beef that I can eat, why not granite?"

-- my new favorite quote from Slashdot comments.

Stephanie
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22

    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    CHICAGO (Ticker) - Rev. Jesse Jackson has demanded that the NFL investigate the hiring of Steve Mariucci, saying the Detroit Lions violated the league's policy requiring teams to consider at least one minority for coaching positions.
    {jump]
    "There were several black coaches available between the end of the season and when Mariucci was fired," Jackson said. "If Detroit was earnest, why were they not given an opportunity to interview for the job? Mariucci was the only coach to have an in-person interview. (Lions) General manager Matt Millen never named any other candidate for the job."

    Knowing that Mariucci was the likely coach, several black coaches refused to interview with Millen for the job, but Jackson believes that is irrelevant.

    "Would you interview for a job you already know is going to someone else?" Jackson said. "Would you allow yourself to be used by the Lions so they could get around the NFL policy? These men are not fools and shouldn't be treated that way."



Jackson doesn't even seem to maintain consistency from the beginning of his rant to the end. First, he rags on Detroit for not considering a minority coach. Then, when it's noted that several minority coaches were contacted, but declined the interview because they saw Mariucci's handwriting on the wall, Jackson blows that off as irrelevant and says those minority coaches will not be "used". I hate to tell him, but I believe some minority coaches will be "used" just to satisfy this little Affirmative Action program, and it's not truly going to make a difference in the long run.

Steph



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Sec19Row53
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Since: 2.1.02
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#8 Posted on
He'll only gain my acceptance if he criticizes the Colts for their move last year of hiring their targetted coach without interviewing any other candidates.

It's called reverse discrimination. You gotta be consistent, and he isn't.



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Pool-Boy
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Since: 1.8.02
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#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by Sec19Row53
    He'll only gain my acceptance if he criticizes the Colts for their move last year of hiring their targetted coach without interviewing any other candidates.

    It's called reverse discrimination. You gotta be consistent, and he isn't.


Actually, it is not "reverse discrimination," it is out and out racism.
Think about it- you are not allowed to hire ANYONE as a coach, unless you first interview a black man. How is this not a racist policy?
Damn it, I would think that if there was one place where racism was totally conquered, it would be sports. Damn if I was wrong...




Stefonics
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Since: 17.3.02
From: Queidersbach

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
First off, I don't agree with Jesse here. He's just wrong. I just want to get that out of the way.

Secondly, BucsFan, Jesse Jackson is not an "idiot". No matter how you slice it, the man does have some intelligence. Call him a liar. Call him a fraud. But you cannot call him an "idiot".

Third, there is absolutely no such thing as "reverse discrimination". Discrimination, when used racially, entails that one race is held down by another. Please God, show me how Whites are held down by Tony Dungee being hired as the head coach in Indianapolis. You can't. As rockdotcom said, there are currently 3 Black coaches in the NFL. Out of 32 teams. That does not constitute a majority.

Fourth, come on Pool-Boy. You're going to cry racism concerning affirmative action (which is just a "going through the motions" joke anyway)? You have GOT to be kidding me. Black men have no power in the front office of any sport. That is just the way it is. Am I pissed off about that? Hell yeah, I'm fuckin outright heated. But racism? Generations upon generations of Black people have experienced real racism, not this bullshit sport-based bias. When someone finally decides to enforce a rule that tries to even the odds a little, White people cry racism? HA! That might be the funniest fucking thing I've heard all year.

Pool-Boy, Sec19Row53 neither one of you is any better than Jesse Jackson right now. You're both throwing theories against the wall and seeing what sticks. You are calling the kettle black, and you're both pots. Jackson said it's racist to not interview Black men for head coaching jobs. You're both saying it's "reverse discrimination" and outright "racist" when the Colts didn't interview any White coaches for their job. All three of you are wrong. This has nothing to do with consistency. This has to do with a man who is quickly losing his relevence across the nation trying to "fight the good fight" one more time in order to assure his legacy (which includes that of a liar; I'll be damned if he held Martin Luther King Jr. in his arms as he died as he has said so many times in the past).



Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.
-Malcom X
TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
"Please God, show me how Whites are held down by Tony Dungee being hired as the head coach in Indianapolis."

The same way blacks are being held down by Steve Marriuchi being head coach in Detroit (as people have already said).
shockdown
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Since: 28.12.02

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#12 Posted on
Hold on...I'm about to jump back and forth over the fence here, so bear with me.

Do I think the number of black players in the league should be the justification for hiring more black coaches. Not really, because it really should be about who is more qualified. Hell, if you were to apply this argument all over, then by that regard, we should have more predominantly foreign-born coahces in the NHL, since many of the players are foreign (of course, some wiseguy is probably gonna say that there ARE a lot of foreign-born NHL coaches, in which case, consider me properly chagrined).

The problem for me is that while the truly talented should rise to the top, it doesn not happen that way in regards to the hiring of black coaches. Art Shell & Dennis Green sit on the sidelines. Sherman Lewis & Marvin Lewis have to wait forever for their chances. Ray Rhodes gets fired after a .500 season in Green Bay, while other coaches with worse records keep their jobs (and I remain convinced that had not Mariuuci been available, Millen would have kept his word, and Marty M. would still be the Lions' coach). Meanwhile, guys like Mortenweig, Dave Campo, Mike Riley, Chan Gailey, get their chances. Would Sherman Lewis be a better coach than, say Dick Lebeau? Maybe, maybe not. All I know is LeBeau got his chance -- Lewis, who is equally qualified, if not more so, did not. And it's not like these black coaches have tanked compleltely in the chances they did get. Art Shell took the Raiders to the AFC championship game (and I believe they were in the playoffs frequently as well). Ray Rhodes guided an Eagles team that had no business winning 5 games to 2 consecutive 10 win seasons and the plaoffs (and this is comming from an Eagles fan that is happy with Andy Reid). Look at Tony Dungy with The Bucs and the Colts. Look at Herman Edwards, and what he was able to get out of a Jets team that isn't really that talented. That's all I'm saying -- if you can continue to hire the white guys with no proven track record, or even continue trading around the ones who do (Holmgren, Parcells, Schottenheimer), so can at least to give the qualified black coaches out there a shot. (Living in the DC area, I have this conversation often with Redskins fans when I tell then that the 'Skins could have tried this approach by hiring Terry Robiskie, Ray Rhodes, or here's a shot -- Doug Williams, who has a link to the franchise -- and they would have been no worse off then they were with Spurrier this year, and for a lot less money, at that).

That being said, does Jackson have a point? Not in this particular case. If this were the jacksonvilel or San Fransico situations, then it would be different. I do believe the Rooney rule should apply to those teams who are clearly seen as not having a select candidate, like those two team, and Cincinnati,; those teams are looking up and down and combing all the ranks of coaching. But in situations like Detriot & Dallas, you're dealing with two organizations who knew the man they wanted. In that case, I don't consider an insult to those black coaches who were availble -- if a team has its heart set on one guy, that's the guy they should get. If they are legimately in a situation where the team is searching all over, then I think they should have to give black candidates serious consideration.

Of course, I'd like to see more teams do what Baltimore has done, and get some brothers up in the front office, where the REAL power is. That, to me, would be more satisfying then seeing 15 Black head coaches getting hired next year.



Power flows to the one who knows how -- desire alone is not enough.

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Pool-Boy
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Since: 1.8.02
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#13 Posted on
Here is why saying that my opinions are a case of the pot calling the kettle black is simply invalid-
I do not feel race should be a factor in determining ANYTHING. PERIOD.

Any time you make a ruling of any kind that regulates anything haveing race as a factor, it is racist. Jesse Jackson is a racist. He is also an extorionist, but that is a topic for the politics thread.

You are always going to have situations where one person is the top canditate for a job. While Jackson was pointing out angrily that the Lions did not interview any black people, they also did not interview any other white people. If you want to look at it statisically, they extended an offer to interview one white coach, and at lease five black coaches. What about all of the other white coaches that might have wanted the job? Didn't they deserve the same consideration as the black coaches that were asked to interview based on their race?

The fact is that Mooch was the ideal man for the job. The Lions recently tore down their team, and a man who previously worked very closely with Mariucci was the one who was rebuilding the team. They have similar styles. The Lions want a west coast offense, and that is what Mariucci is good at. Mariucci came for the Forty-fricken-niners for god's sake, where he had a great record. And he has demonstrated that he CAN rebuild a team in dire straights. To claim that a team is racist in its policies because they admit openly that the best man for the job, who happens to be white, was the lead canditate for the job, is just plain wrong.

You want to stop racism? Stop bullshit like this policy, where race is thrown into EVERYTHING. The solution is not pointing out a person's race, the solution is FROWNING upon pointing out someone's race as a job qualification.

And if I have to hear the "real racism" crap one more time, I may burst. Racism is racism, whether it is picking someone for a job due to their race, or being lynched for your race. Just because whites in the NFL who apply for coaching jobs are not being taken out and beaten does not make the racism OK. You do not solve the problem of racism by implementing racist policies towars a different race, and EXCUSING it because "oh, it is not as bad as it was for our ANCESTORS, so it is ok." That is the worst kind of hypocricy, and it solves NOTHING.

People need to stop giving so much credibility to men like Jesse Jackson, who are glory-hounds. If you want to solve racism, look to the men that are blazing forward in spite of race, who suceed not because of their race, but because of their skills and character, and rally behind them. Affirmative Action will not make the world a better place. It will just make it a more angry, less efficient place.




Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by shockdown
    Of course, I'd like to see more teams do what Baltimore has done, and get some

Thank you for this racist comment....

Anyhoo, want to know why the Ravens have those guys in the front office...they were the BEST CANDIDATE FOR THE JOB REGARDLESS OF RACE. If he was black, so be it. Same for if he was white, Hispanic, Martian, animal, or vegetable.

If Jesse Jackson wants to take up a cause to prove to us that he is not a racist, he should fight to get my 5 foot 9 white ass to play center for the Lakers.



Americans are a resolute people who have risen to every test of our time. Adversity has revealed the character of our country, to the world and to ourselves. America is a strong nation, and honorable in the use of our strength. We exercise power without conquest, and we sacrifice for the liberty of strangers. Americans are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity.
- President George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, 1/28/2003
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Since: 9.12.01
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#15 Posted on
Okay, okay, let's keep this out of the F-O-O-T-B-A-L-L board, please.



©CRZ™
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#16 Posted on
What's w/ all the Ray Rhodes mentions? While Rhodes is a very good defensive coordinator, he can't head coach his way out of a wet paper bag. He took over the Eagles, and his record (IIRC) got worse every year, then took over a Green Bay team w/ arguably the best QB in the league, and missed the playoffs.

Any team that hires him as a head coach would be making a mistake.

Rhodes's yearly record w/ the Eagles:
10-6
10-6
6-9-1
3-13

Rhodes is hardly the guy you'd want to hire to rebuild your team.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 10.2.03 1026)


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Dave: Oh, I know what you mean. I've been to Canada.
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Since: 28.10.02
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#17 Posted on
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall several teams pursuing Marvin Lewis after Baltimore's championship season, with him declining the offers.



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Grimis
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Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by Hairy Caray
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall several teams pursuing Marvin Lewis after Baltimore's championship season, with him declining the offers.

Most teams had already hired their coaches by the time the Ravens won. That and the fact that apparently when he went to interview with Buffalo he came into the interview relatively unprepared, expecting to be handed the job. Gregg Williams came in with his shit together and won them over.



Americans are a resolute people who have risen to every test of our time. Adversity has revealed the character of our country, to the world and to ourselves. America is a strong nation, and honorable in the use of our strength. We exercise power without conquest, and we sacrifice for the liberty of strangers. Americans are a free people, who know that freedom is the right of every person and the future of every nation. The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity.
- President George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, 1/28/2003
redsoxnation
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#19 Posted on
Its always funny to hear Jesse Jackson complain about jobs when he has never had a real job in his life.
Now, back to football. Where are all the cries that there are not enough white wide receivers and defensive backs? And when a white defensive back appears, he becomes a target of ridicule.



The Public Demands: Nuke Mecca.
rockdotcom_2.0
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

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#20 Posted on

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Its always funny to hear Jesse Jackson complain about jobs when he has never had a real job in his life.
    Now, back to football. Where are all the cries that there are not enough white wide receivers and defensive backs? And when a white defensive back appears, he becomes a target of ridicule.



Most politicians like Jesse Jackson have never had a "real" job in their lives, including our president. And the only reason Jason Sehorn gets ridiculed is because he SUCKS. And he has a hot wife.
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