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The W - Pro Wrestling - Monday Nitr...er...Monday Night iMPACT! 01/04/10 (Page 2)
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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 536 days
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.87
While waiting for next week's shocks of the One Man Gang, Jimmy Valiant and Konga the Barbarian (with the Maestro forming a line behind him) to appear, the best shock will be Ed Leslie being the man under the mask.
Thought they'd really take a shot at Bret Hart being on the other show by having Sting repel from the rafters to the ring.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.58
I caught the last hour, so I missed most of the Nitro stuff. Yet, I kept my TV locked on AJ/Kurt. TNA won the night in my house. I also don't see rehashing the NWO as bad as rehashing Montreal. After reading the reviews the idea that Kofi's push is dead, Jericho is off of Raw and no real women's division isn't going to make me tune into Raw. TNA now has Jeff Hardy, a legit worker and they also have Ric Flair for mic work. WWE featured a stroke victim who can not take a shot to the head. Bret/Vince maybe good on paper, but I question the reality of having this match also 3 months of Bret bitching isn't going to pop ratings. As bad as TNA was, it wasn't as awful as Raw's present and future looks.
Spiraling_Shape
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Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.92
I watched the first hour and then flipped during RAW commercials.

    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    I really enjoyed the Pope's interview. It's the first time I've seen him with that gimmick. It's good stuff, although I had no idea who Orlando Jordan was until they told me afterwards.


I thought Burke/Pope was totally underutilized by the WWE and showed a ton of promise and charisma on ECW, and this was the first time I saw him with his new gimmick too. I'm not sure exactly what it IS, but it was different. But...Orlando Jordan? The man needs no introduction apparently? (But he does need an energy drink in his hand to appear on screen before him!)

Oh Jeffrey Nero...can't you just stay home and out of the spotlight? At least until after your legal issues? (and this is coming from a long-time fan of both Hardys... I just want the guy to be safe and healthy) Also, my girlfriend correctly pointed out that his new haircut made him look like Mark McGrath.

Don't-call-me-Val-Venis-but-I'm-doing-the-same-gimmick? The Nasty Boys? Sean Waltman & Scott "I-ate-Steven Segal" Hall?! *shudder*



"Unless you did something unspeakable with a cactus, 'Shaqtus' is not a real word." - Santino Marella
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 2 days
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Yet, I kept my TV locked on AJ/Kurt. TNA won the night in my house.


What a shocking development!


    I also don't see rehashing the NWO as bad as rehashing Montreal.


Number of times Bret has returned to address Montreal: 0.
Number of times Hogan has returned to rehash the nWo: I think we've all stopped counting.


    TNA now has Jeff Hardy, a legit worker and they also have Ric Flair for mic work.


TNA now has Jeff "Two Strikes" Hardy, who's quite possibly looking at some prison time this year, and a 60 year-old who's only joined TNA because WWE won't let him wrestle.


    WWE featured a stroke victim who can not take a shot to the head.


TNA featured a guy who can't do his signature move any more because of a bionic hip, a guy whose sole contribution to wrestling in the past six years was a sex-tape with Chyna, a guy who no-showed the company last time he was booked due his alcohol problem and a guy who hasn't had a good match since he joined the company eighteen months ago. I'll take the stroke victim, please - at least he's fresh.

Hey man, you get the wrestling product you deserve.

(edited by Amos Cochran on 5.1.10 0759)
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 2 days
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.73
(deleted by Amos Cochran on 5.1.10 0758)
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 29 min.
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
TNA did more to alienate me in the first 30 minutes of the show than I thought was even possible. Open by talking to the fans waiting for the show? A cage match that ends in DQ? Jeff Hardy, a legitimate scoop for them even with the legal problems, getting knocked down to the midcard? These are not good indicators for the rest of the night. I mean, would it even have killed them to have the cage go to a finish, and have Hardy challenge the winner, leading to an actual feud and match? I was gone after the first hour, only popping back in during RAW's commercials, and I didn't see anything then to make me regret my decision.
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 9 days
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.57
I participated in my first ever WAR tonight, as Nitro for me aired the night after Raw. My unfiltered Twitter commentary was probably excessive (I count almost 100 posts), but if you're interested, a summary can be found here: http://hansen9j.livejournal.com/317192.html

Raw was basically unremarkable for me with the exception of Bret Hart, but it didn't need to be remarkable. TNA needed to take this opportunity for all it was worth, and instead we got:

-A fuck finish in the opening spotfest
-An opening spotfest that doesn't work on TV anyway, as the cameras can't see through the cage in the wideshots
-Homocide being embarassed by being unable to climb out of the cage
-Hogan talking about all the young talent in the company, but never NAMING the talent or really giving the talent a chance to shine
-The debuts were such a mix of has-beens and never-weres. I have no problem with Val Venis getting a steady paycheck. But him debuting on this episode sent a bad message, that Val Venis being on TNA means something. But at least he's shown himself to be a capable performer? Why is Orlando Jordan on my TV? Why should I care about Orlando Jordan?
-And it's been said before, but the Angle/AJ match was not what it should have been. You can kick out of moves, but you need timing and drama. I might be opening up a recently opened can of worms, but Shawn Michaels didn't kick out of three tombstones, he kicked out of one. And he didn't pop up from the pin attempt and act like nothing had happened.

Basically, we seem to have three (3) feuds/angles coming out of this episode. Foley vs. the NWO, Nasty Boys vs. Team 3D, and The Pope~~! vs. Orlando Jordan. Why am I supposed to watch the next Impact?



It is the policy of the documentary crew to remain true observers and not interfere with its subjects.
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dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 9 days
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.63
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I also don't see rehashing the NWO as bad as rehashing Montreal.

Well we haven't seen Bret, Vince and HBK share the same air really since 1997, so it's vaguely intriguing at least to see how it plays out.

The nWo, on the other hand, has been done, done and done again and then when they were done doing it they done did it one more time. It's a little stale.


    After reading the reviews the idea that Kofi's push is dead
He just went back-and-forth for ten minutes with one of the biggest heels in the WWE Universe! He won't win the title any time soon, but he's hardly floundering.

    Jericho is off of Raw

At least until the next draft/trade/nefarious shenanigans.

Besides, I'm in the minority but Jericho's schtick was getting a bit old for me with him being on both shows. Hypocrites....gelati​nous.....parasites......

Lather, rinse, repeat. Gotcha. You can have too much of a good thing.


    TNA now has Jeff Hardy, a legit worker and they also have Ric Flair for mic work. WWE featured a stroke victim who can not take a shot to the head.

Or TNA featured a drug addict with form for the fuck up who was one strike away from WWE oblivion*, while WWE featured a massively popular guy who hadn't been seen for years.


    Bret/Vince maybe good on paper, but I question the reality of having this match

It'll either be a short squash or they'll wrestle by proxy, I'd wager.


    As bad as TNA was, it wasn't as awful as Raw's present and future looks.

I respectfully disagree. TNA just loaded up an already bloated roster with a bunch of guys almost all of whom have their best years behind them, and if the Bret/Vince thing tanks WWE could walk away from it with ease while TNA would find it rather harder to walk away from their deal with Hogan et al.

To each their own and that though.

*Not meant as a fair and balanced assessment, just saying if you reduce Bret Hart to "stroke victim who can't take head shots" a similarly damning description of Mr Hardy (or any number of other TNA debutants last night) could be put forward.

EDIT - Amos Cochrane went and made much the same points as me whilst I was posting. What a smart fellow he must be. Not meaning to pile on though, just didn't see the point in deleting after wasting a good part of my lunch hour typing that.

(edited by dMr on 5.1.10 1329)
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 8 hours
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.71
Punk's promos are probably diluted now as they seemed to be all about setting up a Jeff Hardy return. I think they have to keep feeding him Matt so the WWE can pretend the crowd means him when they chant "Har-Dee."



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
rv581
Goetta








Since: 2.12.02

Since last post: 1540 days
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.36
Have you ever watched a movie that's set in the past about young, wild-eyed kids? And these kids are youthful, vibrant & full of possibilities? But then at the end of the movie, the scene fast-forwards to the present -- and in the final few scenes, they show those same young, hopeful kids as old, decaying farts in their twilight years? I really HATE that. It depresses the fuck outa me.

That's what this show felt like.

I grew up on the NWA product & always felt a greater connection to WCW than WWF/E... but man, some of these guys just haven't aged well.

I'm sad.





"Who ate my sandwich???"
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
I watched TNA all the time back in the weekly PPV days. I've tried watching Impact, but never could get into it beyond some of the Knockout division stuff. So a few thoughts from a relatively new viewer:

- The difference in production values between WWE and TNA is staggering to me. Everything just looks brighter and cleaner on Raw. TNA is a dark, dank looking place, but not in a gritty ECW Arena sort of way, but in a "we can't afford more lights" sort of way. Also the cage in that opening match is very hard to see through.

- For a company called "Total Nonstop Action" they sure did have a gap of over 40 minutes between wrestling action in the first and second hours. Yes they had the Ric Flair surprise, but after a while just having people talking grows wearying.

- I want to hire Hulk Hogan as my investment counselor, since apparently he can magically turn owners into non-owners by sheer force of will or something. Though at least this clears up the previously convoluted TNA power structure where at one point seemingly 5 people were in charge in one way or another (Foley, Jarrett, Carter, Cornette, Brooks).

- They absolutely HAVE to get out of that building. As much as CRZ has his show ruined by Hebner, that's what the fans do to me. The constant self-aware chanting is just painful. And the "who needs Bret" chant was just funny, since if Bret Hart appeared there last night they would have talked about how it was the biggest coup in wrestling history. Yes they bring energy to things, but when everyone is over, and everyone is chanted for, and everyone is a crowd favorite, then no one is any of that.



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Hokienautic
Toulouse








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.16
I guess it's just wishful thinking to hope that all these new old stars are just on short-term deals, with the plan being to toss 'em all aside relatively soon? I didn't see the show (either show, though I DVR'd Raw; had a couple volleyball matches) but from the report I read about Impact, it seemed that Hogan's position was left up in the air. Or was the final scene of the night supposed to be the revelation of where he "really" stood?

While a few of the additions certainly could at least make SOME sense, I just can't comprehend ANYone thinking The Nasty Boys or Sean Waltman were a positive addition to any show. What are the odds that all the lame-ass additions are there only to hammer home the "going with the young guys" point when Hogan tell 'em all they're not needed? Hell, some wrestlers in TNA were already getting lost in the sheer numbers. Add in another DOZEN guys, and it's even worse, I think.
i before e
Chorizo








Since: 17.10.03

Since last post: 1458 days
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.61
I watched TNA tonight with a combination of low expectations and high hopes. All I want out of this deal is for there to be some legit competition to Vince so that the WWE will start putting out a better product. If said competition can put on a good show as well, I'll consider that a bonus. I kind of liked Impact tonight, if only for the frantic energy it brought. DVRing it and switching back and forth through the two shows probably helped.

What I liked:
The unintentional comedy of the cage match. Watching Homicide try desperately to pull himself out by any means necessary, including using his neck muscles made me laugh my ass off. Why design a cage that is virtually inescapable? People aren't going to be impressed about how difficult it is to climb that thing.. well maybe now the will be but that's not the point. No one tested that thing out before hand? Now that's some funny stuff!

Jeff Hardy's return. For the current generation of fans, the Hardy jump had to be the equivalent of the Luger Jump of 95, maybe Hardy is even a bigger star than Luger. I like stuff like that. It was a genuine holy S*** moment for me.

Flair and the rest of the surprise appearances.

Styles vs. Angle. Great match for free TV. I didnt think it was the best match in the world, but I like the idea of going out with a good quality main event between two top stars.

What I didnt like:
-The cage match as opener. They were un-opposed in the first hour. Substitute a really good 15 to 20 minute singles or tag match between any of the cage competitors and book the rest of the hour the same way as it was, and they really would have come off great. Instead, we got typical TNA, which is not what you want.

-Short matches! Some matches should be short because they would suck if the went long, but not every match on the undercard!!!

-Almost too much going on. It felt like you got a match, debut, someone getting knocked out back stage, vignette, debut, match, debut, backstage knockout, vignette... rapid fire. That can be a good thing, but it came off a little chaotic at times.

-The ridiculous amount of commercial breaks killed their momentum a couple of times.

I dont know, I think they accomplished their goal, which was to create buzz and get some new fans to tune in during their regular time slot. They also advertised that new show, which is a plus. They just dont have the firepower to sustain a head to head battle.. yet. The WWE is at its most vulnerable point in years, so TNA has a shot. It'll take a better effort than this to get the job done.

By the way, did anyone catch the TNA commercial during RAW? "What are you guys doing? Tune in to TNA on Spike TV RIGHT NOW!!" Never saw that before..
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 28 days
Last activity: 12 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.57
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    I guess it's just wishful thinking to hope that all these new old stars are just on short-term deals, with the plan being to toss 'em all aside relatively soon? I didn't see the show (either show, though I DVR'd Raw; had a couple volleyball matches) but from the report I read about Impact, it seemed that Hogan's position was left up in the air. Or was the final scene of the night supposed to be the revelation of where he "really" stood?

    While a few of the additions certainly could at least make SOME sense, I just can't comprehend ANYone thinking The Nasty Boys or Sean Waltman were a positive addition to any show. What are the odds that all the lame-ass additions are there only to hammer home the "going with the young guys" point when Hogan tell 'em all they're not needed? Hell, some wrestlers in TNA were already getting lost in the sheer numbers. Add in another DOZEN guys, and it's even worse, I think.

I am with you, and hope that some of these guys were just there for the night. The young guys did get their fair share of the spotlight, as we saw ODB, Morgan/Hernandez, and AJ all go over established veterans. I was glad to see that, and really enjoyed the main event. But having the Nasty Boys, Hall, and Venis on a wrestling show in 2010 is embarrassing. If they are gone in a few weeks that’s fine, but the Nasty Boys seem to be setting up a match with 3D, and Hall appears to be a part of the Hogan/Foley angle for the time being.

To be fair, WWE has 4-5 main event guys in their 40s, but at least most of them can still go. I will wait and see how Impact plays out over the next few weeks, as there were enough positives last night to keep me interested.





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Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.46
Clearly the lows of TNA were worse than anything on WWE but I thought there were a lot of good things as well.

Angle/Styles/Flair - I don't want to see Flair wrestle ever again but if he gets involved in this feud as a character then it could be great for Styles. Not only getting the rub from Flair but remember how much he improved on the mic from working with Christian? I love Christian, but I'm pretty sure Flair can teach him even more.

Dinero/Wolfe - Don't remember who, but one person made it sound like Wolfe was being buried. I don't see how one loss is being buried. Dinero has gotten a strong push from day one. Seemed to me like they were pushing Dinero by letting him get a clean win against a guy coming off a feud with Angle. Wolfe was introduced to TNA about as well as anybody could so I don't see any reason (so far) to think they are just going to abandon him. I'm looking forward to a possible feud here. Both are young, both are new, both can work, both can talk.

Hardy/Homicide - I feel the same way about Hardy as Wolfe. Why does showing up after a X Division match mean Hardy is going to be a midcarder? It seemed clear to me he was there to start a feud with Homicide. Yeah, Homicide hasn't been pushed to the moon like Hernandez but he has been pushed lately and it seems like TNA wanted to do something with him and didn't know what. Now they have something for him to do. I'll never understand people that complain about stale wrestling and the younger guys never getting pushed. Then when a young guy gets pushed against a veteran they complain that the veteran has been demoted to midcard. How are they suppose to push young guys without them facing veterans?

Women's Tag - Has there ever been a great women's tag team match in the history of the WWE? Their singles matches are bad enough but their tag matches are usually hideous. Big props to all four of these girls. I loved Tara back in the WWE days but I think all four of these girls have passed her by.

Abyss/Joe - It wasn't a good match but if Joe needs somebody to brawl with at the next PPV until he gets his title shot then I'm sure they can come up with something.

Yeah, there was too much Foley. There was too much Hogan and there is no need for the Nasty Boys, Orlando Jordan or the nWo but TNA is actually using their young talent. None of them were made to look bad tonight at the expense of an old guy. They've got completely new and fresh feuds that could actually be good. So at least for one week more I look forward to that. On Raw all we are guaranteed is that next week we'll get more boring Hart interviews, more Vince, more DX, more Orton, more Cena and more Hornswoggle. I'm not sure how that is supposed to excite me.

    Originally posted by i before e

    The unintentional comedy of the cage match. Watching Homicide try desperately to pull himself out by any means necessary, including using his neck muscles made me laugh my ass off. Why design a cage that is virtually inescapable? People aren't going to be impressed about how difficult it is to climb that thing.. well maybe now the will be but that's not the point. No one tested that thing out before hand? Now that's some funny stuff!



They didn't test it out beforehand because they've done this match before. Homicide was just a poor choice to be in it I guess. I'm pretty sure everybody in the match except for Homicide has scaled it pretty easily in the past. Shelley did hang around doing nothing for a while but I think that was just a screw up. Someone was probably supposed to knock him down sooner and didn't so he didn't have anything to do.

    Originally posted by Hokienautic

    While a few of the additions certainly could at least make SOME sense, I just can't comprehend ANYone thinking The Nasty Boys or Sean Waltman were a positive addition to any show.


Actually I remember Waltman's last run in TNA not being bad. I'm not saying they should hire him, just that I wouldn't put him in the category of the Nasty Boys, Hall and Orlando.

    Originally posted by Hokienautic
    What are the odds that all the lame-ass additions are there only to hammer home the "going with the young guys" point when Hogan tell 'em all they're not needed?


That's what I thought at first when Hall/Pac and the Nasty Boys showed up but weren't allowed in the building. That Hogan was going to lay down the law and tell them they aren't invited. But then Hall/Pac clearly set up an angle with Foley and the Nasty Boys clearly set up an angle with Team 3D. I guess our only hope is that these angles only go to the next PPV, which is only in 12 days, but if they stick around longer than that then they might be there for good.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

Since last post: 329 days
Last activity: 329 days
AIM:  
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.87
I don't buy a lot of the negativity towards the show tonight. It all mostly seems to come from just being scared of a new Nitro because of a bunch of has-beens and never-weres showing up. Just being pissed they were on the show last night completely misses the point of WHY they were on the show. Lemme explain, while also looking at this "they forgot to push their young talent" bit:

TNA's First Hour, the Steel Asylum was good, definitely hurt by the non-ending. But there ws a point to the non-ending; Homcide as the unpredictable nutjob. And last I checked, Homicide is a TNA original creation and not a WWE cast-off. Also, he's a "young guy". As for the match, it was the X Division doing their X Division thing, which is good to showcase but there should've been more of it. Hardy's return was good simply because it started setting the stage for "names" making surprise appearances.

Which of course was followed by Flair. For everything that can be leveled against the Hogan buddies tonight, none of that can be said for Flair during the show. He was there, got the big surprise, got a buzz going, and....appeared in two segments, never said a word, and instead put over the young talent especially AJ Styles.

ODB/Tara was pretty decent, although short, and lightyears better than the "lets have two fashion models wrassle" WWE nonsense.

2nd Hour, Hogan shows up. Starts a promo about "everyone earning their spot". Nash and Waltman come out to a nice nWo pop thing, they seem to think this is nWo all over again, Hogan tells them to fuck off. Nash comes out, tells Hogan that's not what he said, then Bischoff comes out, and he and Hogan send the rest of the nWo on its way. Sting's in the rafters not saying anything. Noticing a pattern here? I'll mention this again at the end, since it's relevant to the reason behind the cameos and retreads.

Pope (Elijah Burke) cuts an awesome promo, until he's cut off by...Orlando Jordan? That was dumb and the beginning of the nonsense cameos. Orlando Jordan, really??? But even still, Pope continues bringing it on the mic and then we have his match with Desmond Wolfe.

Pope/Desmond, while short, was about equal in time to the pittance of wrestling WWE hands out normally. And in the match, there were no two minute long chinlocks or punchy-punchy-kick segments. A good match, better than the current WWE TV crop, within the time limit.

Nasty Boys. Ugh. Absolutely, unequivocally a negative.

Kong/Hamada vs. Wilde/Sarita (c) - An awesome fucking match that the WWE could only dream about. Wilde and Sarita's stereo suicide dives and Kong/Hamada's finisher (while Hamada seemed to be noticeably favoring one leg), and this match was fucking awesome on all counts. The best part? This isn't even close to the best these four can put out. Hell, Hamada herself had two better matches on the Knockout's Eve special. But I'd put this match against any WWE men's tag match in the past year.

Raven/Stevie vs. Morgan/Hernandez - Squash match to hugely put over two TNA "young guys", earning them a tag title shot.

Third Hour, Bischoff interrupts an AJ promo, making the AJ/Angle match for Genesis for tonight. AJ did good here. Later, Angle counter-promos and both have set the stage.

Val Venis. Refer to Nasty Boys.

AJ (c)/Angle - We may have just started the New Year, but we've got a match of the year candidate; and again, AJ and Angle can still even do better! Ends with Styles pinning off a 450, and so at the end of the night we've had Kurt Angle, Ric Flair, and HULK FUCKING HOGAN put AJ Styles over as one of the best wrestlers in the world today. Which seems like it should be really major, something concrete behind "we're looking for change and showcasing our young talent" and something TNA should get a big pat on the back for... but its being glazed over for a 30 second backstage segment that came after it.

So, that ending segment everyone's so pissy about. First off, the fact that it smacked of a nWo reunion and this is "bad because it's old" is hilarious when the WWE is showcasing Bret Hart vs Vince McMahon. Which I loved, BTW, but the point is nostalgia/old retreading can't be used as an argument when the competition is doing the exact. Same. Thing. Anyways, so there may or may not be the nWo again. That's the point! Go back to Hogan's arrival promo, where he informs them they have to earn a spot and Nash claims that wasn't how it was supposed to be. Obviously the storyline is going to be Hogan being torn between placating his old buddies, and doing the right thing for TNA as he's said and push those deserving. In the end, those cameos and retreads are going to be cast aside in a big moment that'll leave TNA's young guns on top. All the Hogan/NWO stuff I take as a neccessary evil. Because really, how could you bring Hogan into that promotion and NOT do it? The man has the most storied career in wrestling history. And part of that career is how the NWO angle got out of hand and became about backstage politics in real life. The average fan will most likely tune into this and say "uh oh, the NWO... holy fuck, look at Awesome Kong". The (stereotypical) smart fan is the one who's gonna bitch and moan about this show because it catered to everything they hate about Hogan. But that's the whole point, the force behind the storyline, yet nobody wants to see this simply because we all hate seeing the Nasty Boys back?

Whatever. The bottom line is, the arguments against TNA's special tonight are unfounded. There was an overarching storyline the entire night - that of Hogan's "change" and what it truly means, whether his old cronies getting hand-outs or the deserving young lions being showcased - as well as good-to-great actual wrestling matches put on. Were there annoying pointless cameos? Yes. Were there too many commercial breaks? Yep. Do they need to get the hell out of the Impact Zone in Orlando? Absolutely. But to call the show a "Nitro" that "didn't showcase the young talent" is patently absurd.

- Someone laid out Beer Money, the MCMG, and Rhino..
- Homicide's a nutbag and that was advanced and he might have been set up for a feud with Jeff Hardy. You know, the man who was the #2 face in WWE 3 months ago and who was rumored to return for a big Wrestlemania match with CM Punk.
- The Pope cut a very good promo and scored a major upset over Wolfe in a very nice match which hopefully leads to a better match.
- Morgan and Hernandez were put over hard and won a Tag Team Title shot. Nothing revolutionary but a pretty standard means to say that they're people of note, especially when the entire story was that Hogan and Bischoff gave the locker room a mandate to prove themselves and they did so convincingly. This is somehow negated by the fact that Morgan won with one devastating and well hit finisher?
- The newly formed tag team of Kong and Hamada had a great match to win the Tag Titles and start a natural feud with the daredevil and skilled tag workers need to find a way to take down the devastating power team.
- ODB won back the Knockouts Title and Tara attacked her advancing that story and possibly Tara's loosening grasp on sanity.
- AJ's masked attacker returned and attacked him again.
- AJ and Angle's long simmering feud was resolved by a decisive match end, something they haven't had in their last 2 encounters.
- AJ/Angle was watched by Flair for an unspoken reason but which seemed to imply Flair's interest in one or both of them going forward.
- AJ was put over as one of the best in the world by Angle, Flair, and Hulk Hogan.

(edited by BoromirMark on 5.1.10 1329)



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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.85
BoromirMark, the complete absence of Mick Foley, strip poker, Jeff Jarrett and Bubba the Love Sponge in your post, combined with a one sentence gloss off for BOTH the Nasty Boys (who, keep in mind, were in multiple segments) and Sean Morley (and a near-brushoff of Orlando Jordan) doesn't exactly dissuade me from the opinion that you're seeing what you want to see and ignoring the rest.

Good luck to you with this show, but I have real doubts that there won't be a greater and greater percentage of the stuff you'll have to avoid mentioning the longer Hogan sticks around. We'll see how compelling your argument is in a couple weeks.

(edited by CRZ on 5.1.10 1245)


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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by BoromirMark
    I don't buy a lot of the negativity towards the show tonight. It all mostly seems to come from just being scared of a new Nitro because of a bunch of has-beens and never-weres showing up. Just being pissed they were on the show last night completely misses the point of WHY they were on the show. Lemme explain, while also looking at this "they forgot to push their young talent" bit:

Saying this isn't Nitro even though it was almost exactly like Nitro is like saying it isn't raining, there's just water falling from the sky.


    TNA's First Hour, the Steel Asylum was good, definitely hurt by the non-ending. But there ws a point to the non-ending; Homcide as the unpredictable nutjob. And last I checked, Homicide is a TNA original creation and not a WWE cast-off. Also, he's a "young guy". As for the match, it was the X Division doing their X Division thing, which is good to showcase but there should've been more of it. Hardy's return was good simply because it started setting the stage for "names" making surprise appearances.


But it wasn't good. It was 4 minutes of random spots, a guy getting his foot stuck in a cage, and half the time not being able to see a damn thing happening because the cage is so visually problematic.

As for Hardy's return, the way he was segregated into what was treated as a throw-away part of the show (Hardy appears twice more for a minute or so combined, nothing else about Homicide mentioned again) tells me, as a viewer, that this is not particularly important, certainly not nearly as important as any of the things involving Hogan/Bisch/NWO/Fole y/Jarrett/Lashley. When the only person on this show who has actually made anyone money in this half of the decade is Jeff Hardy. So it really is a head scratcher to me why you debut him in this way.


    Which of course was followed by Flair. For everything that can be leveled against the Hogan buddies tonight, none of that can be said for Flair during the show. He was there, got the big surprise, got a buzz going, and....appeared in two segments, never said a word, and instead put over the young talent especially AJ Styles.

If Flair doesn't wrestle, and serves a mouthpiece that could be interesting. Problem is all the reports of why he came to TNA are because they will let him wrestle. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Though at this point, I'm not sure Ric Flair appearing helps your promotion as he is so used up by now, unless you're running Charlotte every week I don't know how much he brings to the table, and if it justifies the sense of "hey, here's yet another very old guy coming in."


    ODB/Tara was pretty decent, although short, and lightyears better than the "lets have two fashion models wrassle" WWE nonsense.


It was pretty much comparable to any match involving any combination of Mickie James, Beth Phoenix, Natalya, or even McCool at this point. ODB is just not very good. Tara is decent, but in general this feud showcases some of their least talented women.


    2nd Hour, Hogan shows up. Starts a promo about "everyone earning their spot". Nash and Waltman come out to a nice nWo pop thing, they seem to think this is nWo all over again, Hogan tells them to fuck off. Nash comes out, tells Hogan that's not what he said, then Bischoff comes out, and he and Hogan send the rest of the nWo on its way. Sting's in the rafters not saying anything. Noticing a pattern here? I'll mention this again at the end, since it's relevant to the reason behind the cameos and retreads.


The pattern seems to be dissension in the nWo and Sting in the rafters watching over all of it. Which I enjoyed when it built up to Starrcade '97. What it does establish is that the closer one is to Hogan in the scheme of things, the more important you are.


    Pope (Elijah Burke) cuts an awesome promo, until he's cut off by...Orlando Jordan? That was dumb and the beginning of the nonsense cameos. Orlando Jordan, really??? But even still, Pope continues bringing it on the mic and then we have his match with Desmond Wolfe.

    Pope/Desmond, while short, was about equal in time to the pittance of wrestling WWE hands out normally. And in the match, there were no two minute long chinlocks or punchy-punchy-kick segments. A good match, better than the current WWE TV crop, within the time limit.


    Nasty Boys. Ugh. Absolutely, unequivocally a negative.


We agree on Orlando Jordan's pointlessness and the ugh factor of the Nasty Boys. The match was decent, though they seem to have lost some of the momentum Wolfe had upon entering the promotion.


    Kong/Hamada vs. Wilde/Sarita (c) - An awesome fucking match that the WWE could only dream about. Wilde and Sarita's stereo suicide dives and Kong/Hamada's finisher (while Hamada seemed to be noticeably favoring one leg), and this match was fucking awesome on all counts. The best part? This isn't even close to the best these four can put out. Hell, Hamada herself had two better matches on the Knockout's Eve special. But I'd put this match against any WWE men's tag match in the past year.

We have no argument here. In many ways the Knockouts are the most unique weapon TNA has, and I hate to see them cheapen it with shitty Val Venis promos.


    AJ (c)/Angle - We may have just started the New Year, but we've got a match of the year candidate; and again, AJ and Angle can still even do better! Ends with Styles pinning off a 450, and so at the end of the night we've had Kurt Angle, Ric Flair, and HULK FUCKING HOGAN put AJ Styles over as one of the best wrestlers in the world today. Which seems like it should be really major, something concrete behind "we're looking for change and showcasing our young talent" and something TNA should get a big pat on the back for... but its being glazed over for a 30 second backstage segment that came after it.


The match was very good, but not quite the classic they are making it to be. Certainly the match of the night though. And how exactly did Flair put over A.J. at any point? By watching? Or going to his locker room? And the Hogan stuff about A.J. is hard to buy because they're so focused on "is Hogan good? Is he bad? Shades of grey rule!!!!" shit.


    So, that ending segment everyone's so pissy about. First off, the fact that it smacked of a nWo reunion and this is "bad because it's old" is hilarious when the WWE is showcasing Bret Hart vs Vince McMahon. Which I loved, BTW, but the point is nostalgia/old retreading can't be used as an argument when the competition is doing the exact. Same. Thing. Anyways, so there may or may not be the nWo again. That's the point!

It isn't bad because it is old. It is bad because it has been done to death. Hart v. McMahon was something we haven't seen in 12 years. We've seen so many nWo reunion events since then I can't even keep count. WWE did something no one has seen in a long time. TNA did something we've seen half a dozen times, with each time being lamer than the last.


    Go back to Hogan's arrival promo, where he informs them they have to earn a spot and Nash claims that wasn't how it was supposed to be. Obviously the storyline is going to be Hogan being torn between placating his old buddies, and doing the right thing for TNA as he's said and push those deserving. In the end, those cameos and retreads are going to be cast aside in a big moment that'll leave TNA's young guns on top.


Really? Considering all the same people involved NEVER pulled the trigger on this over the past 13 years, you think this time it is going to work out? Tell me, which side is the Millionaire's Club and which side is the New Blood? To have this sort of trust in people who have never shown any interest in anyone but themselves seems incredibly optimistic to me.


    All the Hogan/NWO stuff I take as a neccessary evil. Because really, how could you bring Hogan into that promotion and NOT do it? The man has the most storied career in wrestling history. And part of that career is how the NWO angle got out of hand and became about backstage politics in real life. The average fan will most likely tune into this and say "uh oh, the NWO... holy fuck, look at Awesome Kong". The (stereotypical) smart fan is the one who's gonna bitch and moan about this show because it catered to everything they hate about Hogan. But that's the whole point, the force behind the storyline, yet nobody wants to see this simply because we all hate seeing the Nasty Boys back?


The average fan has essentially gone away. The WWE has a bunch of young kids, and then the rest of us are old folks who will say "oh joy, the nWo, AGAIN!" The great wave of unwashed marks who drove the 90's boom have long gone.

But really this points to the essential problem with all this. What good is Hulk Hogan at this point in time? He really doesn't bring in new fans. He is unlikely to keep WWE fans who have grown up on Cena and HHH and such (hence my confusion at the minimal attention given to Jeff Hardy, the one guy those fans might stop to watch). Old fans have no faith in him at this point. Beyond the one-time publicity boost, what exactly does Hogan bring beyond the need to rehash old angles for the umpteenth time in the hopes this time will be different?


    Whatever. The bottom line is, the arguments against TNA's special tonight are unfounded. There was an overarching storyline the entire night - that of Hogan's "change" and what it truly means, whether his old cronies getting hand-outs or the deserving young lions being showcased - as well as good-to-great actual wrestling matches put on. Were there annoying pointless cameos? Yes. Were there too many commercial breaks? Yep. Do they need to get the hell out of the Impact Zone in Orlando? Absolutely. But to call the show a "Nitro" that "didn't showcase the young talent" is patently absurd.


It was Nitro for many reasons. For the overwhelming amount of angles (look at that list below, that is half a year's worth of stuff crammed into last night). It goes right back to the "everyone is good and bad" stuff that never worked. It goes back to all the old faces who just have very little left to offer. It is everyone talking about Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff and the nWo guys. It is great matches being overwhelmed by angle development involving poor wrestlers. It was half-formed storylines that will just as likely be dropped in a week as explored.

    - Someone laid out Beer Money, the MCMG, and Rhino..
    - Homicide's a nutbag and that was advanced and he might have been set up for a feud with Jeff Hardy. You know, the man who was the #2 face in WWE 3 months ago and who was rumored to return for a big Wrestlemania match with CM Punk.
    - The Pope cut a very good promo and scored a major upset over Wolfe in a very nice match which hopefully leads to a better match.
    - Morgan and Hernandez were put over hard and won a Tag Team Title shot. Nothing revolutionary but a pretty standard means to say that they're people of note, especially when the entire story was that Hogan and Bischoff gave the locker room a mandate to prove themselves and they did so convincingly. This is somehow negated by the fact that Morgan won with one devastating and well hit finisher?
    - The newly formed tag team of Kong and Hamada had a great match to win the Tag Titles and start a natural feud with the daredevil and skilled tag workers need to find a way to take down the devastating power team.
    - ODB won back the Knockouts Title and Tara attacked her advancing that story and possibly Tara's loosening grasp on sanity.
    - AJ's masked attacker returned and attacked him again.
    - AJ and Angle's long simmering feud was resolved by a decisive match end, something they haven't had in their last 2 encounters.
    - AJ/Angle was watched by Flair for an unspoken reason but which seemed to imply Flair's interest in one or both of them going forward.
    - AJ was put over as one of the best in the world by Angle, Flair, and Hulk Hogan.

Well, we can't say they weren't busy I guess!


(edited by spf on 5.1.10 1305)


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Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.62
I sure hope nobody in TNA actually scouts or anything, because it sure seems like the easiest way to counter the Tower of London is a simple push-off.

Speaking of counters, I was about to put my head into a wall if I saw AJ power out of yet another ankle lock. Kurt had something like fifteen attempts blocked before he decided to even try the grapevine? C'mon man.

I guess that was balanced by Abyss slowly dying in the coquina clutch.



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Since: 11.12.01

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.86
The whole nWo thing seemed a lot more interesting for the minute or two it seemed like Xpac and Scott Hall had bought tickets and weren't supposed to be there.

Then it just got boring, and I left the room.
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