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20.4.14 0559
The W - Baseball - MLB Hall of Fame Class of 2013
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It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 1 day
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.05
NOBODY!

No Players Elected for First Time Since 1996


    A winning candidate did not emerge from the Hall of Fame balloting conducted by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America and verified by Ernst & Young. There were 569 ballots cast, the third highest total in the history of the voting, but none of the 37 candidates in the 2013 vote gained mention on the required 75 percent for election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame.

    Craig Biggio, who totaled 3,060 hits and was a seven-time All-Star while playing three positions (catcher, second base, outfield), topped the ballot with 388 votes – 39 shy of the 427 needed for election. His total reflected 68.2 percent of the electorate, which consists of BBWAA members with 10 or more consecutive years of Major League Baseball coverage. Five blank ballots were among those submitted. Other players named on more than half the ballots were pitcher Jack Morris with 385 (67.7 percent), first baseman Jeff Bagwell with 339 (59.6), catcher Mike Piazza with 329 (57.8) and outfielder Tim Raines with 297 (52.2).


What an absolute joke.



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graves9
Frankfurter








Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.11
Absolute disgraceful. The writers have just killed the Baseball hall of fame. I can't tell you how angry I am not to see Mike Piazza and Jeff Bagwell get into the hall of fame when they are there is no proof that they did steroids, but hey Mike Piazza had backne and that's a smoking gun according to asshole writers. Bagwell was one of the best first basemen ever and he and the greatest hitting catchers in Piazza got fucking jobbed because of the era they played in. Schilling,Trammell and Raines not getting in is a joke as well. I would have voted for Bonds and Clemens, but you knew they had no shot. The ridiculously overrated Jack Morris getting much more votes than Piazza makes me wanna puke. Fuck the writers just fuck them! Good job taking a stand writers twenty years too fucking late!

(edited by graves9 on 9.1.13 1428)
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 5 min.
ICQ:  
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.44
Player A Top 10 WAR: 8.3, 6.4, 6.1, 5.3, 4.9, 4.5, 4.1, 3.9, 3.1, 3.0
Player B Top 10 WAR: 7.3, 6.6, 6.3, 6.1, 5.9, 5.3, 3.6, 3.5, 3.4, 3.4

Player B beats him seven times. Player B also got on base more often than Player A.

Player A is Tony Gwynn, first ballot Hall of Famer.

Player B is Tim Raines, shut out again.





"You can't put a price on integrity"
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.46
I think I mentioned this in an earlier thread on this board, but there were were about a dozen guys that I would've voted into the HOF. I had seven names --- Raines, Piazza, Bagwell, Biggio, Trammell, Schilling, Martinez --- even without getting into the steroid guys, plus I'm definitely open to arguments for Smith, McGriff and Walker. It's also ridiculous that Jack Morris was maybe the 19th-most qualified guy on this ballot and he got the second-most votes.

I totally agree that Piazza and Bagwell should've been no-brainers and it's absurd that Raines and Trammell have been made to wait this long. The BBWAA really needs to overhaul its membership given the number of old-timers who a) proudly announce they don't watch/care about baseball anymore and b) announced this fact while submitting their blank ballots.



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00

It's crap like this that made me stop watching baseball several years ago ...
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
Y!:
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.08
    Originally posted by graves9
    Absolute disgraceful. The writers have just killed the Baseball hall of fame.
\

It's ONLY one year of elections, and surely the Veterans Committee will put someone in so there is an induction this summer.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
graves9
Frankfurter








Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.11
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by graves9
      Absolute disgraceful. The writers have just killed the Baseball hall of fame.
    \

    It's ONLY one year of elections, and surely the Veterans Committee will put someone in so there is an induction this summer.
All the old timers say that they don't want the steroid guys in or the assumed ones and I can't ever see Clemens and Bonds getting in and the Hall of Fame is already losing tons of money. Yeah maybe my whole the HOF is dead is a bit much, but it's damaged. Anyway here is a great write up on Piazza http://www.amazinavenue.com/2013/1/9/3853470/mike-piazza-and-empty-halls
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 293 days
Last activity: 293 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.62
The really important question: Who the hell voted for Aaron Sele for the Hall of Fame?
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 265 days
Last activity: 226 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by graves9
      Absolute disgraceful. The writers have just killed the Baseball hall of fame.
    \

    It's ONLY one year of elections, and surely the Veterans Committee will put someone in so there is an induction this summer.

They already have. Jacob Ruppert, who owned the New York Yankees from 1915 to 1939; Hank O'Day, who was an umpire from 1895 to 1927; and Deacon White, who played professional baseball from 1871 to 1890.

But I lean towards agreeing with graves9. Wikipedia says the following players will join the ballot next year: Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Kenny Rogers, Frank Thomas. The number of plausible candidates is going to get bigger and bigger, and with the 10 player vote limit, it's going to be harder and harder for anyone to get elected.

Other thoughts:
The 5 writers who submitted blank ballots should be removed from the BBWAA. I saw a writer say that he couldn't decide, and therefore he did not submit a ballot at all. If you want to take that position, that's the thing to do, because it doesn't negatively affect all players like a blank ballot does.

I also don't get the 106 people who voted for Dale Murphy. You knew he wasn't getting in. Even the guys who started with middling percentages who eventually got in (Bert Blyleven, Bruce Sutter) were at 50% of votes by their 9th year on the ballot. If you don't have that level of support by then, you're not getting in. That goes for Don Mattingly and Alan Trammel also. They are not going to get in, and making it so that they stay on the ballot another 2 years isn't going to make them feel any better.

Finally, as I've seen other people do, I wonder what the thought process is of the (at least) 8 people were who decided Roger Clemens belongs in the Hall of Fame, but Barry Bonds does not.

Despite not getting in, Piazza and Biggio have to feel great today, because they should be elected within the next two years.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 1 day
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AIM:  
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.07
How does a blank ballot work? I'm guessing if you don't submit a ballot then it doesn't count but submitting a blank ballot means the vote counts, thus it does nothing but decrease the percentages of all the candidates? Is that right?



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
kwik
Summer sausage








Since: 5.9.02
From: Norwich, NY

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 4 hours
AIM:  
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.39
    Originally posted by Quezzy
    How does a blank ballot work? I'm guessing if you don't submit a ballot then it doesn't count but submitting a blank ballot means the vote counts, thus it does nothing but decrease the percentages of all the candidates? Is that right?


That's exactly it. They sent out over 600 ballots. You need to be on 75% of RETURNED ballots to get in, so a blank ballot knocks your total down a bit. That, coupled with the asinine "No one is a first-ballot Hall of Famer" attitude that some writers have was a factor.

As mentioned though, next year creates quite a logjam. I think Jack Morris is in his final year of eligibility next year, so if you assume the players over 50%, you get Biggio, Morris, Bagwell, Piazza, Raines. That's 5 right there. Glavine, Maddux, and Mussina should all get votes, and now you are already at 8 of your 10 maximum names. Are the Bonds and Clemens votes protest votes for one year only, or is that going to be long term? The ballot is going to be awful top-heavy next year.



Rush4Life
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Tacoma, WA

Since last post: 13 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.22
This is completely lame. You have plenty of legit guys (Edgar Martinez anyone?) who would be fine additions in the Hall. Whatever... I don't watch baseball all that much anymore.



Chuck Norris drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls.
Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.87
Sooo...

Bonds and Clemens were great, great players, but they admitted to using steroids. So they don't get in. I don't agree with that, but I can understand it.

Bagwell and Piazza get in on the merits, but they MIGHT have used steroids, and it would be totally wrong if they get in and Bonds and Clemens don't, and then they're proven to be users. Even worse, IMO, since they're essentially convicting without evidence. But maybe I can sorta see it.

Then, what about Biggio? 3000 hits is supposed to get you in, right? Granted, he played in a high-offense era--but no one really thinks he did steroids, do they? Or are we just thinking that anyone who was a hitter in that era did them? Because if he was clean, and so many other guys were dirty, his 3000 should be pretty legit, and the fact that he was never thought of as one of the game's best hitters should be due to all the roid guys around him.

And if so, then shouldn't Curt Schilling's numbers be even more impressive? Am I wrong here?

(edited by Peter The Hegemon on 11.1.13 0554)
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 1 day
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.40
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon


    And if so, then shouldn't Curt Schilling's numbers be even more impressive? Am I wrong here?

    (edited by Peter The Hegemon on 11.1.13 0554)


He has brought Rhode Island to the brink of bankruptcy.



-- 2006 Time magazine Person of the Year --
FuellyFuelly
-- July 2009 Ordained Reverend --
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 293 days
Last activity: 293 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.62
    Originally posted by Zeruel
      Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon


      And if so, then shouldn't Curt Schilling's numbers be even more impressive? Am I wrong here?

      (edited by Peter The Hegemon on 11.1.13 0554)


    He has brought Rhode Island to the brink of bankruptcy.






We were there long before Curt.
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 5 hours
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.29

    Then, what about Biggio? 3000 hits is supposed to get you in, right? Granted, he played in a high-offense era--but no one really thinks he did steroids, do they? Or are we just thinking that anyone who was a hitter in that era did them?


The justifications (none of which I agree with) appear to be

- everyone in the era is guilty, if not of using then of not doing enough to stop it

- "we have this hunch Bagwell used, and Bagwell and Biggio were friends so maybe he did too"

- Biggio was one of the greatest baseball players of all time, but he wasn't one of the greatest greatest so we're forced to not vote for him on the first ballot



thecubsfan.com - luchablog
jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 215 days
Last activity: 4 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.94
Personally, I am ok with none of these guys being voted in, although I wouldn't complain too loudly if Piazza, Biggio, or Schilling made it at some point.

    Originally posted by graves9
    Absolute disgraceful. The writers have just killed the Baseball hall of fame.
I am pretty sure this happened two years ago when the writers decided that Bert Blyleven was one of the greatest baseball players in history (or in '98 with Don Sutton or '97 with Phil Niekro).

    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    Wikipedia says the following players will join the ballot next year: Tom Glavine, Jeff Kent, Greg Maddux, Mike Mussina, Kenny Rogers, Frank Thomas. The number of plausible candidates is going to get bigger and bigger, and with the 10 player vote limit, it's going to be harder and harder for anyone to get elected.

    Other thoughts:
    The 5 writers who submitted blank ballots should be removed from the BBWAA.
Did Wikipedia deem Kenny Rodgers as a "plausible candidate" or did you? Heck, might as well throw Moises Alou, Mike Timlin, and Joe Borowski on the "plausible candidate" list since they're also on the ballot. Additionally, if a writer submits a blank ballot, isn't that their way of stating, "I deem no one on this list as HOF-worthy"? That doesn't seem like the same thing as saying, "I just can't decide who to vote for".

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    The really important question: Who the hell voted for Aaron Sele for the Hall of Fame?
Probably one of the two writers that voted for Shawn Green.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.75

People who play the prerequisite number of years automatically quality to be put on the ballot.

The stupidest thing I've heard this week around the HOF is a sports talk radio host who suggested that if Bonds and Clemens never get voted in, they should sue for slander and/or defamation of character.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine presents



RUSSIAN FLAG BURIAL - an examination of 1984 mid-south



Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 265 days
Last activity: 226 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21
    Originally posted by jfkfc
    Did Wikipedia deem Kenny Rodgers as a "plausible candidate" or did you? Heck, might as well throw Moises Alou, Mike Timlin, and Joe Borowski on the "plausible candidate" list since they're also on the ballot. Additionally, if a writer submits a blank ballot, isn't that their way of stating, "I deem no one on this list as HOF-worthy"? That doesn't seem like the same thing as saying, "I just can't decide who to vote for".


It was wikipedia. I'm sure a fan of his just threw him into the list at some point.

It's true that might be what a writer is saying, but if that's the case, then no one will be worthy for quite a while. And therefore I'm prepared to dismiss their opinion.
jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 215 days
Last activity: 4 days
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.94
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
      Originally posted by jfkfc
      Did Wikipedia deem Kenny Rodgers as a "plausible candidate" or did you? Heck, might as well throw Moises Alou, Mike Timlin, and Joe Borowski on the "plausible candidate" list since they're also on the ballot. Additionally, if a writer submits a blank ballot, isn't that their way of stating, "I deem no one on this list as HOF-worthy"? That doesn't seem like the same thing as saying, "I just can't decide who to vote for".


    It was wikipedia. I'm sure a fan of his just threw him into the list at some point.

    It's true that might be what a writer is saying, but if that's the case, then no one will be worthy for quite a while. And therefore I'm prepared to dismiss their opinion.
So if a writer thinks that no one on THIS LIST is HOF-worthy, then that automatically means that they should think that no one is HOF-worthy on THIS OTHER LIST?? The mere presence of Greg Maddux on THIS OTHER LIST should convince you otherwise....unless you're going with "If Piazza and Biggio don't get elected, then NO ONE should get elected." Then, while you might be completely silly, you'd at least be consistent.
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