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25.10.14 2025
The W - Current Events & Politics - Missile Defense: Now More Than Ever.....
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Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1272 days
Last activity: 1068 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
President Bush has started the process of deploying the National Missile Defense program in 2004. Click Here

This can't come soon enough. The threat of terrorists or rogue nations(North Korea, Iraq, etc.) to acquire long-range ballistic missile technology is coming very soon. It is thought that Iran will have an operational ICBM in a year or two. Just imagine the problems we could have if these delivery systems get coupled with a WMD?

I say it's about time, and frankly it's still several years later than it had to be.



What kind of disjointed society do we live in if Merry Christmas is Politically Incorrect?
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OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 18 days
Last activity: 5 hours
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#2 Posted on
I've got a better idea...

Why don't we genetically create a race of hyper-intelligent human/eagle hybrids. We make about 10,000 of them, and we completely educate them on thermodynamics, engineering, rocket science - whatever it takes, and we enroll them in the military. Now, their job is to patrol our skies, watching for any incoming missiles or what-have-you, and disarming them in the air before they can hit their targets.

It'd be cheaper than the "Star Wars" plan, and just as likely to work.



Welcome Christmas, bring your cheer
Cheer to all Whos far and near
Christmas day is in our grasp, so long as we have hands to clasp
Christmas day will always be, just as long as we have we
Welcome Christmas, while we stand
Heart to heart and hand in hand
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 1 day
#3 Posted on
I've got a better idea...

Because we think something can't possibly work, we shouldn't investigate it or try to save ourselves at all. When the missiles are detected we'll all put our head between our knees and kiss our asses goodbye!

That'll be even cheaper than the birds and at least as fatalistic. But at least no taxpayer money will have been wasted...no taxpayers left either, but eh...



11-3 NORTH DIVISION CHAMPIONS - Bring on the Bills!
Brett Favre = 4 time MVP!

vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 3036 days
Last activity: 249 days
#4 Posted on
Oddly, I'll take Plan C (cranlsn's) over the other two.

What some people forget is that the quaint notion of MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) as a nuclear deterrent swings both ways. The "If you nuke us, you get nuked back" concept helps keep OUR missiles from going OUT as much as it helps keep THEIR missiles from coming IN.

If the United States builds a defense (and, just for the sake of argument, I'll make the ridiculous assumption that it'd WORK PROPERLY) against missiles and doesn't share it with other nations, suddenly they have a massive advantage -- they can launch nukes at will without fear of nuclear retaliation. (At least not missile-based retaliation, anyway; it's hard to say what targeted nations might sneak into our country as payback.)

Do you REALLY want some of the people in the current administration -- Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al, the people who seem to think that invading the entire Middle East one nation at a time and taking it over is a Really Keen Idea -- to know (or even THINK) that they can launch nukes at will without fear of nuclear retaliation? Do you REALLY want to give them that option?

I don't.



"When I feel depressed, I sit under a willow tree by a cool river, and imagine that I am strangling a duck." -- Kotaro Sarai
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1272 days
Last activity: 1068 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29

    Originally posted by vsp
    Do you REALLY want some of the people in the current administration -- Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al, the people who seem to think that invading the entire Middle East one nation at a time and taking it over is a Really Keen Idea -- to know (or even THINK) that they can launch nukes at will without fear of nuclear retaliation? Do you REALLY want to give them that option?

    I don't.



They won't. Here's why...

The original Reagan plan for SDI was to be able to shoot down any incoming missile. An impossible and pointless task because even if you shoot down 95% of the incoming missiles, 25 million are still toast.

Modern day missile defense is not a deterrent against Russia or China. MAD takes care of that. It even, to a certain extent, should keep most rogue nations in check. It's the terrorists you have to worry about. Accidental launches(if that ever were to happen) would be a snap.

MAD would also stop any notion of running roughshod over smaller countries because the currently designed NMD system cannot stop a massive attack from Russia, or even a moderate attack from China.



What kind of disjointed society do we live in if Merry Christmas is Politically Incorrect?
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 1 day
#6 Posted on
Thank you Grimis. As for the other comment...do you really think that the other countries that have the capability aren't researching some type of missile defense?

Once one country has it, all others will follow. Whether it's us first or not. Do you want to be the one without any semblance of defense against attack, be it terrorist, accidental or otherwise?

Or do you think that we're the only country that would dare use such weapons...because all the other nations of the world are run by such moral paragons?



11-3 NORTH DIVISION CHAMPIONS - Bring on the Bills!
Brett Favre = 4 time MVP!

Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 85 days
Last activity: 85 days
#7 Posted on

    Originally posted by vsp
    What some people forget is that the quaint notion of MAD (Mutual Assured Destruction) as a nuclear deterrent swings both ways. The "If you nuke us, you get nuked back" concept helps keep OUR missiles from going OUT as much as it helps keep THEIR missiles from coming IN.


This isn't 1980 and we are not facing the Soviet Union. MAD kept the USA and USSR in check because neither the USA nor the USSR wanted to die.

Now, this is 2002 and we are dealing with crazy radical Muslims who want to kill each and every one of us, and they WANT to die so they can go get their 72 virgins and chill with Allah and Muhammed in heaven.

I am all for the idea of Missle Defense. It's just one of the tools we need to develop to protect ourselves from the crazy maniacs that want to destroy us. I also believe in sharing the technology with Russia to calm their nerves so MAD can once again apply to the two of us. I'd even be willing to deal with China, but they still supply arms to terrorist nations. If we have to give this to Israel we need to have Americans manning everything since the Israeli's sell just about everything we give them to the Chinese.




Maiden RULES!!!
OlFuzzyBastard
Knackwurst








Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 18 days
Last activity: 5 hours
AIM:  
#8 Posted on
Yes, but the crazy Muslims aren't launching missiles. When the crazy Muslims want to attack their enemies, they strap bombs to themselves and head into a nightclub, or hijack an airplane and crash it into a skyscraper. You're right - this isn't the USSR anymore.



Welcome Christmas, bring your cheer
Cheer to all Whos far and near
Christmas day is in our grasp, so long as we have hands to clasp
Christmas day will always be, just as long as we have we
Welcome Christmas, while we stand
Heart to heart and hand in hand
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 1 day
#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Yes, but the crazy Muslims aren't launching missiles. When the crazy Muslims want to attack their enemies, they strap bombs to themselves and head into a nightclub, or hijack an airplane and crash it into a skyscraper. You're right - this isn't the USSR anymore.


So that thing they shot at a plane recently...was that a terrorist with a bomb strapped to him? Did they shoot him out of a cannon?

Sorry for the sarcasm, but just because they haven't used missiles against or in the US doesn't mean the won't. They have used them in other areas of the world.



11-3 NORTH DIVISION CHAMPIONS - Bring on the Bills!
Brett Favre = 4 time MVP!

Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 85 days
Last activity: 85 days
#10 Posted on

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Yes, but the crazy Muslims aren't launching missiles. When the crazy Muslims want to attack their enemies, they strap bombs to themselves and head into a nightclub, or hijack an airplane and crash it into a skyscraper. You're right - this isn't the USSR anymore.


And 100 years ago we weren't using missles either. Give them some time. Or would you prefer we wait until Usama buys some missles from north korea, sneaks them into Mexico and nukes L.A.? Hell, MAYBE you liberals ARE waiting for something like that, just so you can cry that the Bush administration didn't do anything to protect the people like how the CIA and FBI are to blame for 9/11.





Maiden RULES!!!
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1318 days
Last activity: 84 days
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#11 Posted on
Well, first off, we already OFFERED the technology to Russia. They declined it.
Second, the damned thing will work. They have done 8 tests so far, and 5 were sucessful. Not GREAT, but to me it means that the design works and the bugs need worked out.
As far as MAD goes, I am sorry, but we are not nuking anyone without cause. The public won't allow it. They are there as a deterrent (you use a Weapon of Mass Destruction on us, you get nuked back strategy.)
Personally, I would rather have it there. We have the technology. To me, a Missile Defense system is safer than not having it. That is just fine by me! and, if every other nation is going to start flipping out "OH NO! THEY ARE GOING TO NUKE US!" They are demonstrating that a-they are not our frineds, or else they would realize that we are a peaceful nation by nation, and b-good- maybe those asshole countryies who take our aid and give us the finger the rest of the time will start acting a little more- politely shall we say?




3 out of 5 Statisticians agree- Statistics are all bull$hit!
"Pool-Boy"
Brian P. Dermody
Liverwurst
Moderator








Since: 20.9.02
From: New York, NY

Since last post: 940 days
Last activity: 362 days
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#12 Posted on
Hell, I could do without LA...



Modern Humorist
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1318 days
Last activity: 84 days
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#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by DJ Ran
    Hell, I could do without LA...

Well, So could I, but I would rather not deal with the fallout, living in Orange County...




3 out of 5 Statisticians agree- Statistics are all bull$hit!
"Pool-Boy"
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 85 days
Last activity: 85 days
#14 Posted on

    Originally posted by Pool-Boy

      Originally posted by DJ Ran
      Hell, I could do without LA...

    Well, So could I, but I would rather not deal with the fallout, living in Orange County...



This is the reason I do not want NYC to get blasted. If they go up in a nuke I am definitely in the fall out area, if not the initial blast radius itself.




Maiden RULES!!!
rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 584 days
Last activity: 199 days
AIM:  
#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by cranlsn

      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Yes, but the crazy Muslims aren't launching missiles. When the crazy Muslims want to attack their enemies, they strap bombs to themselves and head into a nightclub, or hijack an airplane and crash it into a skyscraper. You're right - this isn't the USSR anymore.


    So that thing they shot at a plane recently...was that a terrorist with a bomb strapped to him? Did they shoot him out of a cannon?

    Sorry for the sarcasm, but just because they haven't used missiles against or in the US doesn't mean the won't. They have used them in other areas of the world.




There is a BIG diffrence between a hand held Stinger rocket and an ICBM.


I think the ballistic missile defense system is a good idea. But I dont think it makes us any safer from terrorists. And I wish they would stop pushing it like it is. There are much easier and more practical ways for terrorist groups to kill lots of people if they so choose.





Ya know how e do it, big balling and big blingin'....
cranlsn
Liverwurst








Since: 18.3.02
From: Sussex, WI

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 1 day
#16 Posted on
I know there is a big difference between a Stinger and an ICBM. I was just trying to make a point. As weapons of mass destruction are becoming easier to obtain, especially for some oil rich nations that support Al-Qaeda, they will be using different methods of terrorism.

SCUD missiles for instance...not a big payload, but they could do a shitload of damage. And that IS something that a missile defense system could handily take out. And they are definitely within the realm of items that terrorists could get their hot little hands on.

So I'm sorry...I'm all for the do SOMETHING method, rather than wringing my hands, or sitting on them, while nutcases plot destruction and death for more Americans.





11-3 NORTH DIVISION CHAMPIONS - Bring on the Bills!
Brett Favre = 4 time MVP!

Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
From: MD

Since last post: 1272 days
Last activity: 1068 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
Also remember that these same SCUD missiles with mobile launchers can be launched from ships. Remember the whole thing about us finding ships off the coast with "possible nuclear material" etc? These bad boys can sit 100 miles off the coast unmolested, and launch those suckers without warning.

Then what? Whoops, I guess the folks in New York City will just have to die because at that point they don't have a prayer if they're the target.

It is better to do something to further minimize the chance of being whacked with a ballistic missile than do nothing but sit and be a sitting duck.



What kind of disjointed society do we live in if Merry Christmas is Politically Incorrect?
Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 1318 days
Last activity: 84 days
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#18 Posted on
Screw the differences between terrorists and nations at this point. If we get attacked, it does not matter by who- we still need to defend ourselves. And lets be honest, 2 years ago, if someone told you that we were going to be attacked by suicide plane hijackers, I think most people would think - No way! terrorists use car bombs and kidnap people....
I am in favor of defending outselves in any way humanly possible. I am sorry, Mutually Assured Destruction is NOT a good enough defense for me. Be it a nation with Mobile Scuds, ICBMs, or a terrorist who somehow gains access to either of these, I want to make sure that if any nutcase decides to launch one at us, we have a damned good chance of downing it before it even comes close.
I think one of the really scary things about this for other nations (like Russia) is its potential. If you think down the line, who says we can't expand this to a global network? This should appeal to anyone who is all for "Peace on Earth." Lets say we master the system- and spread it out so there is global coverage. Then quietly announce that all ICBM launches of any kind, at any one, will be shot down-
Wouldn't that pretty much render that form of nuclear attack pretty well obsolete...



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calvinh0560
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Since: 3.1.02
From: People's Republic of Massachusetts

Since last post: 563 days
Last activity: 46 min.
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
I am all for Missile Defense but it not really something that nations like Russia and China really have to fear. All these larger nations have to do is start up the arms race again and build enough missiles that when you launch then it will saturate the system and some will get past and hit the target. What missile Defense will do is stop smaller nations like North Korea from firing at us since they do not have the GNP to build enough missiles to overload the system.
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