As expected, New York Yankees pitcher Mike Mussina has decided to retire, according to a baseball source with knowledge of the situation. Mussina informed the Yankees last week he would give them a decision by the end of this week.
Mussina, who turns 40 next month, spent the last eight seasons with the Yankees after pitching for the Baltimore Orioles for the first 10 years of his career. His 270 wins rank second among all active right-handers, behind only Greg Maddux. In the final start of his career, he pitched six shutout innings against the Boston Red Sox to finish off the first 20-win season of his career.
With no championships, one 20-win season, and 30 wins shy of the big "300" plateau, it'll be hard to make a HOF argument for Mussina. He might make it eventually, but it'll be a long while.
Hard to believe Mussina was one of the first lucrative Yankee free agent signings (that yielded a grand total of zero championships) of the decade. Seems like so long ago.
Loved Moose. Loved having him on the team. NOT a Hall of Famer.
I had just bent down to tighten my nuts, and there was a double yellow line, see? And next thing I knew, there was policeman behind me. He put a sticker on my helmet and tried to clamp me.
He has more wins than: Sandy Koufax Bob Gibson Dizzy Dean Don Drysdale Bob Feller Whitey Ford Catfish Hunter Bob Lemon Juan Marichal Jim Palmer Hoyt Wilhelm
Originally posted by StaggerLee270 wins ISNT a HOF Career?
He has more wins than: Sandy Koufax Bob Gibson Dizzy Dean Don Drysdale Bob Feller Whitey Ford Catfish Hunter Bob Lemon Juan Marichal Jim Palmer Hoyt Wilhelm
ERA+ for those guys Sandy Koufax - 131 Bob Gibson - 127 Dizzy Dean - 130 Don Drysdale - 121 Bob Feller - 122 Whitey Ford - 133 Catfish Hunter - 104 Bob Lemon - 119 Juan Marichal - 123 Jim Palmer - 126 Hoyt Wilhelm - 146 (and 221 saves)
Mike Mussina - 123
I honestly did not know how this would turn out when I started looking for the numbers.
Originally posted by StaggerLee270 wins ISNT a HOF Career?
He has more wins than: Sandy Koufax Bob Gibson Dizzy Dean Don Drysdale Bob Feller Whitey Ford Catfish Hunter Bob Lemon Juan Marichal Jim Palmer Hoyt Wilhelm
Was there any point where, if you were discussing the topic "who is the best pitcher in baseball right now?" you would have even mentioned Mussina? I think just about everyone on that list would have been in that conversation at some point. Gibson and Koufax, if not others, clearly were the answer to that question during part of their career. (An exception for Wilhelm, who wouldn't probably have come up in that conversation, but almost certainly was the best reliever of his time.)
Originally posted by StaggerLee270 wins ISNT a HOF Career?
He has more wins than: Sandy Koufax Bob Gibson Dizzy Dean Don Drysdale Bob Feller Whitey Ford Catfish Hunter Bob Lemon Juan Marichal Jim Palmer Hoyt Wilhelm
If wins are your criteria, then he can't get in until Bert Blyleven does.
Mussina just doens't stand out compared to his contemporaries (no Cy Youngs, 4 All-Star games). Not just Clemens (7 Cy Youngs, 1 MVP, and 10 All-Star games) (who might not get in because of the steroid issue), but Randy Johnson (5 Cy Youngs, 10 All-Stars), Greg Maddux (4 Cy Youngs, 8 All-Stars), Pedro Martinez (3 Cy Youngs, 8 All-Stars), Schilling (no Cy Youngs, 6 All-Stars), Glavine (2 Cy Youngs, 10 All-Stars), and Smoltz (1 Cy Young, 8 All-Stars).
Do all these guys deserve to get into the Hall? Mussina has the 2nd-worst ERA+ of that group, behind only the 118 of Glavine.
Mussina is probably better than Morris, but neither are HOF-worthy in my book. Granted, I'm more of a small-Hall kind of guy, but still, I don't think Moose ever got further than the Very Good threshold and into the Great threshold.
Originally posted by StaggerLee270 wins ISNT a HOF Career?
He has more wins than: Sandy Koufax Bob Gibson Dizzy Dean Don Drysdale Bob Feller Whitey Ford Catfish Hunter Bob Lemon Juan Marichal Jim Palmer Hoyt Wilhelm
Was there any point where, if you were discussing the topic "who is the best pitcher in baseball right now?" you would have even mentioned Mussina? I think just about everyone on that list would have been in that conversation at some point. Gibson and Koufax, if not others, clearly were the answer to that question during part of their career. (An exception for Wilhelm, who wouldn't probably have come up in that conversation, but almost certainly was the best reliever of his time.)
Unfortunately, longevity will often take the place of greatness. You can be great for a short period and get in to the Hall or you can be 'pretty good' for a long period and still get in, without ever being the best at any given point of time. Which discounts the HOF for only letting in 'the best'. When Craig Biggio retired, most analysts said that he is a shoe-in for the HOF, but was he ever the best player on his team, let alone in the league? Maybe on his team a few times, but his popularity and longevity far outweigh his greatness. Same with Moose.
Biggio caught over 400 games in his first four seasons, and then was a SB / HR threat for the next 10 years. He was always one of the top guys at his position. Second Base just isn't a sexy position.
Originally posted by Peter The HegemonWas there any point where, if you were discussing the topic "who is the best pitcher in baseball right now?" you would have even mentioned Mussina?
I've always asked this question in any HOF discussion. There was a time where Moose was a premiere pitcher, and while I came to enjoy him as a Yankees fan, I may think of him as "a VERY good pitcher" rather than "an all-time great".
Originally posted by Mr. BoffoNot just Clemens (7 Cy Youngs, 1 MVP, and 10 All-Star games) (who might not get in because of the steroid issue), but Randy Johnson (5 Cy Youngs, 10 All-Stars), Greg Maddux (4 Cy Youngs, 8 All-Stars), Pedro Martinez (3 Cy Youngs, 8 All-Stars), Schilling (no Cy Youngs, 6 All-Stars), Glavine (2 Cy Youngs, 10 All-Stars), and Smoltz (1 Cy Young, 8 All-Stars).
Do all these guys deserve to get into the Hall? Mussina has the 2nd-worst ERA+ of that group, behind only the 118 of Glavine.
You know, you could make a realistic case for each of these guys getting into the HOF, as over the course of their careers, each was an elite pitcher....and not stating that just to make a case for Moose.
You wanted the best, you got... Out of Context Quote of the Week.
"Two men enter. One man leaves...with groceries." (SchippeWreck)
Originally posted by It's FalseWith no championships, one 20-win season, and 30 wins shy of the big "300" plateau, it'll be hard to make a HOF argument for Mussina. He might make it eventually, but it'll be a long while.
The conventional wisdom seems to be that no one's gonna hit 300 again any time soon, so that plateau's out of reach for anyone. Although I wouldn't put it past baseball writers to hold someone to an absurdly high standard. The fact that he compares well with other Hall of Famers means I say yes, but he'll have to wait it out.
Originally posted by StaggerLee270 wins ISNT a HOF Career?
He has more wins than: Sandy Koufax Bob Gibson Dizzy Dean Don Drysdale Bob Feller Whitey Ford Catfish Hunter Bob Lemon Juan Marichal Jim Palmer Hoyt Wilhelm
All of these pitches dominated the game for most or all of their careers. Mussina wasn't even the best pitcher on his team a lot of times. He was very good, but not Hall of Fame, good. He never dominated and he was mediocre in the post season.
I had just bent down to tighten my nuts, and there was a double yellow line, see? And next thing I knew, there was policeman behind me. He put a sticker on my helmet and tried to clamp me.
All of these pitches dominated the game for most or all of their careers. Mussina wasn't even the best pitcher on his team a lot of times. He was very good, but not Hall of Fame, good. He never dominated and he was mediocre in the post season.
From the Baseball Writer's Association Hall of Fame Rules Page: #5 Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played. http://www.baseballwriters.org/HOF_rules.html
Never once does it say that dominating the game was a prerequisite. THE PLAYER'S RECORD is the first thing mentioned. His RECORD shows he won more than a good number of people IN the HOF.
As far as post season, nearly half the players in the HOF never made it there.
All of these pitches dominated the game for most or all of their careers. Mussina wasn't even the best pitcher on his team a lot of times. He was very good, but not Hall of Fame, good. He never dominated and he was mediocre in the post season.
From the Baseball Writer's Association Hall of Fame Rules Page: #5 Voting — Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played. http://www.baseballwriters.org/HOF_rules.html
Never once does it say that dominating the game was a prerequisite. THE PLAYER'S RECORD is the first thing mentioned. His RECORD shows he won more than a good number of people IN the HOF.
As far as post season, nearly half the players in the HOF never made it there.
And how these selections are made is nebulous at best. Rules or no rules.
I agree with an earlier post. he shouldn't get in before Bert Blyleven.
I was thinking that Moose had at least 2 more good years left in him. Money was obviously not a factor in a possible return and kudos to him for wanting to spend a lot of time with his kids.
Originally posted by StaggerLeeHe shouldn't get in before Blylevin, who shouldn't get in before Morris.
This argument doesn't make much sense to me. Blyleven was better than Morris in pretty much every conceivable statistical category. Game Seven of the 1991 Series was just one game (albeit a great one).
This would've been quite the pair of deadline deals...in 2005. You'd think the Yankees could've found a more reliable arm than Wood, but it seems like several teams wanted hefty prices for their star relievers (Capps, Downs, etc.)