***Keep in mind I have an obvious bias in this debate as an FSU student***
After Boston College controlling the tempo for the first three quarters of play and staying within one touchdown of Miami until the 4th quarter begins, Miami puts up two touchdowns in a row in the forth and starts jumping around with their typical "we're thugs, no one is even near as good as us" attitudes even though Boston College could have beaten them if they hadn't given up and thrown some dumb passes and completely ignoring the fact that freaking TEMPLE held their own against them for until the third quarter last week. Sure they beat Florida but Florida beat themselves just as much as Miami did as they seemed legitimately afraid of the hype that comes with Miami. At the risk of sounding like a bitter FSU student, from what I have seen thus far, Miami is just that, an overhyped team no better than ourselves, Texas or Oklahoma. Miami can carry that attitude of theirs as much as they want, but if they can't back it up convincingly against Temple and BC, then maybe they should be keeping their mouths shut and just playing football.
Sure I know we got off to a rough start against Iowa State and it scared me, but our last three games have just been one sided. The finishing scores may be unconvincing because we normally put our bench in when we get up by a good margin, but the scores when we pulled our starters were 30-7(virginia), 30-0 (Maryland) and Duke (48-3).
Now the world is predicting a blowout by Miami when we go down to the Orange Bowl in 20 days based soley on two average performances against mediocre teams and a win against UF where Rex Grossman should have won the MVP for the Canes. Am I saying we are gonna maul Miami? Of course not, they are a very solid football program, I just don't find them to be as head and shoulders above FSU and Texas as the media is painting them to be. We WILL give Miami the game of their season and who knows, the might just walk out with a W if they get too arrogant.
Florida State CAN win the national championship if several items fall into place. 1)We beat Miami at home. 2)We Destroy UF at our house on Nov 31st. 3)We put up strong showings in defeating Notre Dame, NC State and Georgia Tech. 4)Oklahoma or Texas eliminate themselves when the two teams meet.
It will be a hard battle, but I just get tired of hearing how good Miami is based on nothing but their own statements.
Can anyone tell me why Virginia Tech can't beat Miami? I know they have are limited to the amount of pressure they can put on them in the air, but man do they have a ground game. I think people are sleeping on VA Tech, and if they don't beat themselves, I believe they have a great chance of beating Miami. Don't sleep on NC State either. Even if they got lucky and ran the table, they wouldn't get a sniff of the national championship, they are still a dangerous team, and Phillip Rivers and T.J. McClendon are a nice one-two combo.
Hall: "Hey maybe we could have a few beers with the boys..." Nash: "I don't think thats such a good idea..."
We had Duke 48-3 before we rotated our starters out and they feebly threw up as much as they possibly could in the last 6:00 of play. I'm not saying we deserve to be #1, I'm just saying that a lot of people are talking mightly highly about a team that let Temple and Boston College hang around until the second half.
I agree that NC State is a team that should be scaring a lot of people right now and the second best team in the ACC in my opinion. Virginia Tech is also a hell of a good program and could theoretically take out miami if they catch them sleeping.
I despise Miami, but the diffence between Miami and Florida State will be the running game. Now Virginia Tech I think matches up to better against Miami because they have 2 running backs who can control the ball, plus the one real weakness for Miami has been the exchange in the punting game. The way Tech blocks punts, they could impact field position and help Tech knock off Miami in Little Havana. Also, don't put the Notre Dame game in the win column just yet for Florida State.
Thank you Mr. Wanz for the check, now you get an AWA World Title Reign. But be careful, my boy Greg is a heat machine.
Let's get my own bias out of the way, right up front. I'm a Miami alumnus twice over (undergrad and law). With that said, however, you sound like a bitter FSU student.
A few responses to some of the things you said...
Miami puts up two touchdowns in a row in the forth and starts jumping around with their typical "we're thugs, no one is even near as good as us" attitudes...
And we all know that Bobby's Little Baptist Boys never go strutting on the field, trash talking, and being all big and bad...
Sure they beat Florida but Florida beat themselves just as much as Miami did as they seemed legitimately afraid of the hype that comes with Miami.
Because when you put up 306 yards rushing (204 rushing yards by just one player) and an additional 202 yards passing (which is more than Florida had all game), it's because the other team beat themselves...
Miami is just that, an overhyped team...
Okay, with all due respect, I can't help but laugh at this coming from a fan of the same team that, after being heavily favored to win the 2001 Orange Bowl, got their butts spanked 13-2 by Oklahoma (and had there not been a breakdown by Oklahoma, FSU wouldn't have even scored that safety). And then there's FSU's 8-4 record from last year, when they lost to Florida and North Carolina on the road, and then lost to Miami (first home loss in ten years - previous home loss in 1991 to Miami) and North Carolina State at home. FSU's been overrated for years. It's only in the past few seasons that it's finally been shown to the college football world.
Miami can carry that attitude of theirs as much as they want, but if they can't back it up convincingly against Temple and BC, then maybe they should be keeping their mouths shut and just playing football.
So 23 and 32 point wins aren't convincing? Yeah, I'll concede that Miami was mentally out of focus for the Temple game, and up until the last few minutes of the second quarter, Miami played an absolutely horrible first half against Boston College. But when your smallest margin of victory after four games is 23 points, there's a little room to brag.
Sure I know we got off to a rough start against Iowa State and it scared me...
Can you help me out here? I think I'm missing something. You blast Miami for subpar efforts during part of the games against Temple and Boston College, and then you brush it off like it's no big deal when the Seminoles do the same. How is this not the pot calling the kettle Afro-American?
The finishing scores may be unconvincing because we normally put our bench in when we get up by a good margin...
What, and Miami doesn't do this, too? Try actually watching the games. By the third or fourth quarter, Willis McGahee and Ken Dorsey give way to their backups. Hell, the past few games, third-string running back Jarrett Payton's been getting carries and playing time in the fourth quarter. Temple didn't score its third touchdown until the fourth quarter, when all the backups were in. Boston College was held scoreless in the second half.
Now the world is predicting a blowout by Miami when we go down to the Orange Bowl in 20 days based soley on two average performances against mediocre teams and a win against UF where Rex Grossman should have won the MVP for the Canes.
Yeah, because Rex Grossman was on a defense that gave up over 500 yards. Maybe I'm not predicting a Canes blowout of FSU, but I still see Miami winning that one clean. And while I've already admitted that Miami was sluggish at times against Temple and BC, isn't it saying something that an "average performance" still gets us wins of 23 and 32 points, while FSU only brags about beating Duke, a team that's won 8 games since 1998 (and only 1 since 2000), by a score of 48-17. That's a margin of victory of 31 points - just about what Miami's been scoring against "mediocre" opponents.
Am I saying we are gonna maul Miami? Of course not, they are a very solid football program...
Okay. Let me get this straight. Miami's got its starting running back in NCAA I-A's Top 5 Players with Rushing Yards in Willis McGahee (who may outshine quarterback Ken Dorsey in making a play for the Heisman) - and this is a running back who entered spring practice as the number two back. Miami is currently three deep at running back, which will increase to four deep once Frank Gore is cleared to play. Their defensive line is so deep that they're constantly rotating players in and out to keep them fresh. Miami averages over 46 points a game, which makes them fourth in NCAA I-A in scoring. They've already convincingly beaten a then-ranked-Top-Ten team in Florida. They're currently riding a 26-game winning streak - longest currently in the country, and only three consecutive wins shy of tying Miami's former record winning streak of 29 games from 1990-1993. And they're only "very solid."
I just don't find them to be as head and shoulders above FSU and Texas as the media is painting them to be.
Texas and Oklahoma can definitely hang with Miami. FSU, on the other hand, has got plenty to prove if they want to beat Miami - a team they haven't beaten since 1999, when Kenney Kelly was starting at QB for the Canes (who has since quit the team to go back to playing minor league baseball).
We WILL give Miami the game of their season...
Uh, Tennessee and Virginia Tech might have something to say about that.
Florida State CAN win the national championship if several items fall into place. (list snipped)
Ask for the sun and the moon and the stars while you're at it, why don't you?
In conclusion - it's a good time to be a Canes fan, so GO CANES!!
(edited by RageRockrr on 23.9.02 0213) THE CONSPIRACY FAILS - Randomly Selected Wiener of the Day, August 13, 2002 "Thanks RageRockrr! You're the coolest!" - Excalibur05, March 10, 2002. "Thank you for bringing back a DEEP 80s memory, Rage. THANK YOU." - DMC, June 6, 2002. "Big Props to RageRockrr: '+ Oh, and three simple words: Optimus. Fucking. Prime.' You're DAMN right!" - Bizzle Izzle, August 7, 2002. (former remainder of sig file deleted due to space and bandwidth concerns)
Ok, I will also start off by telling you where I stand, I am a Florida Gators fan, therefore I hate both Miami and FSU equally and have no biasedness towards either.
Miami Well let's see, they did win the National Championship last year which has to count for something. They did lose some players but reloaded nicely. They destroyed my Gators, and while I like our chances if we somehow had a rematch in a bowl game (mostly because our linemen on both sides of the ball need some more games under their belt), I will admit they spanked us. Then we went out and beat the #4 team in the nation proving that Florida isn't a bad team, that Miami is just THAT good. And yesterday they ONLY beat Boston College by 32 points! OH NO! Wasn't this the same team they gave them their best game of the year last year? But this year they dominated them? Sure maybe Boston College isn't as good as they were last year but still Miami beating the crap out of them shows me something. A 38 - 6 win over Boston College is more impressive than a 48 - 17 win over Duke. Heck, it's more impressive than a 100 - 0 win over Duke.
Florida State Let's face it they stunk last year compared to their usual accomplishments. They haven't improved greatly in anything although I guess they are slightly better. I could see them winning the conference but I doubt they beat Miami and Florida and maybe one other conference loss. And as for not seeing antyhing great about Miami and how they only thing good comes from what they say about themselves. Well they have beaten FLORIDA. Who has FSU beaten so far this year? That's what I thought.
Virginia Tech I say the same thing about them every year, they play the weak Big East conference schedule and then don't even play hard non conference games (atleast Miami plays FSU every year, and Florida and Tennessee this year). So every year my standing is the same, you aren't a top 10 team in my eyes until you prove it. Virginia Tech has never in the last 10 years proved it to me. Every year they start off overrated in my mind, and they have never once proved me wrong. Maybe they can beat Miami, but I won't believe it until I see it.
Tennessee I think this is Miami's only change of getting a loss, and hopefullly i'm right because then we'll have one of those situations where Miami beat Florida, but Florida beat Tennessee, and Tennessee beat Miami. So who is better?? Don't you love controvesary?
As for anything about strength of schedule, Miami plays the hardest non conference schedule in the nation, FSU possibly second but both of them have extremely easy conference schedules, and Miami usually doesn't have a hard non conference schedule outside of FSU. So I don't think either one can complain about the other having a easy schedule.
Now Florida on the other hand. They play 4 teams in the top 10 (Tennessee might have dropped out of the top 10 this week but they'll be back up there), plus LSU, Auburn, South Carolina who could all be Top 25 teams, and Ole Miss who with Eli Manning could win any given game if he's on. Then a SEC Championship game on top of that. Try that kind of schedule. This is just one of the many reasons that Rex should have won the Heisman Trophy last year, but I won't get into that as that's a completely different subject.
(edited by Quezzy on 23.9.02 0957) Lance's Response:
Great heart shown by the vaunted Florida State defense in overtime. I know Bowden said after the game that a 42 yard field goal in torrential rains wouldn't be difficult, but perhaps the defense might have wanted to force Louisville to try the kick, instead of laying down on the first play. Hmm, Clemson, Miami, and Notre Dame next three on the Nole's schedule, possible 4 game losing streak.
Thank you Mr. Wanz for the check, now you get an AWA World Title Reign. But be careful, my boy Greg is a heat machine.
One out of two is not bad I don't guess. Tennessee actually struggled a lot more than I thought they would. Rutgers was up 14-7 at halftime, but should have been up by a lot more, they dominated the first half (a missed field goal cost them three, and bad time and time-out management cost them an opportunity for a touchdown at the end of the half, they ran out of time at the one yard line).
UT woke up in the second half, but Rutgers still managed to easily beat the point-spread.
Almost on the Kentucky picked. If either Kentucky's offense or defense had shown up, they would have won. But it wasn't meant to be. Florida played their best game of the season, outside of the awful special teams play.
While this year's UM team might not blow away opponents as well as they did last year, they're still the UNDISPUTED world champion (to borrow from WWE) of college football and are therefore the best until dethroned. We didn't play too well during the Temple and BC games, but the Canes tend to sleepwalk through games against lower teams.
Yo, it's me, it's me, it's (points to self) P-A-B!