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The W - Baseball - McGwire Used Steroids in 1998
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hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.58
    Originally posted by McGwire (hosted.ap.org)
    I wish I had never touched steroids. It was foolish and it was a mistake. I truly apologize. Looking back, I wish I had never played during the steroid era.
    ...
    I never knew when, but I always knew this day would come. It's time for me to talk about the past and to confirm what people have suspected.
    ...
    I remember trying steroids very briefly in the 1989/1990 offseason and then after I was injured in 1993, I used steroids again. I used them on occasion throughout the '90s, including during the 1998 season.


Not that it's that surprising, but it's at least good for him to be admitting it.



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StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.53
Maybe this makes me cynical, but this out-of-nowhere admission makes me wonder what his agenda is. Maybe it's merely that he was going to be back in the spotlight with the Cardinals all season long so he wanted to get it out of the way so it wouldn't be a distraction. Or maybe he's looking for some kind of sympathy or pat on the back?

But yeah, clearly no big surprise about the info itself.

- StingArmy
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 105 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.20
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    Maybe this makes me cynical, but this out-of-nowhere admission makes me wonder what his agenda is. Maybe it's merely that he was going to be back in the spotlight with the Cardinals all season long so he wanted to get it out of the way so it wouldn't be a distraction.


I don't think it's really out of nowhere. A whole lot of people, including his best buddy LaRussa, have said that taking the hitting coach position with the Cards means he's going to have to speak to the media at some point, and speaking to the media will inevitably lead to questions about steroids, so McGwire was going to have to either settle the doubts or prepare to be a distraction to the team all season.

This isn't a new thought for me (nor am I the first person to say it), but with indictments and perjury investigations lingering for multiple players, McGwire's "not talking about the past" was probably a pretty smart decision. I really don't care that players used steroids. Considering that clearly a very high majority of players were using or used at some point throughout the years McGwire played, I can't gather the energy to be outraged at them all. Good on McGwire if he is sincere about wanting to get them out of the game, and if he's not, oh well.
thecubsfan
Scrapple
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 5 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
This was a very smart move on his part. There will probably be a lot of media wanting to ask him questions the first day of camp, and now he can address them if he wants, or just say his statement was all he wanted to say. Either way, he gets this out of the way and can move on.

This is classic, too:

    Originally posted by ESPN
    In an interview with ESPN's "Baseball Tonight", La Russa said he didn't know McGwire had used steroids until the slugger had admitted using performance-enhancing drugs in the phone call to the manager earlier Monday.


Riiiight. Always the lawyer.

(edited by thecubsfan on 11.1.10 1443)


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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.91
I wonder if this will move him above 25% in the HOF voting. Because that's the only real reason I can see that he'd ever come clean.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.47
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I wonder if this will move him above 25% in the HOF voting. Because that's the only real reason I can see that he'd ever come clean.


too late to adopt the andy pettite model.



Mark Coale
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ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.47
This is to allow him to head to spring training and move on. Gee, McGwire used steroids. I am just schocked.



Perception is reality
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.48
McGwire did an interview with Bob Costas that appeared on MLB Network tonight. I only saw highlights of the full interview, but have seen in the wall-to-wall coverage that he's saying he only used steroids to recover from injuries, that he denies Canseco's book where he says Jose and Mac used to shoot up in the bathroom after batting practice on the A's.

He confirmed that there was an arrangement with Congress where "I'm not here to talk about the past." = Taking the 5th to avoid possible prosecutions for perjury.

That LaRussa didn't know a thing until he told him this morning. (Somehow I don't imagine this 'shocking revelation' is going to change TLR's mind about who he wants for his batting coach.)

And McGwire is saying that steroids had no effect whatsoever on his performance. Total denial that he got any sort of an edge. Denials as Costas pushed back against him a few times on that point.

And about this saying he did it because of the wear and tear of the long seasons? Pal, that's why Frank Thomas didn't pass you on the all-time HR list, and why Griffey didn't pass all-time HR leader Hank Aaron. That's performance-enhancing in and of itself, in my book.


    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I wonder if this will move him above 25% in the HOF voting. Because that's the only real reason I can see that he'd ever come clean.


From what reactions I've seen early on, he's only solidifying the sentiment against his candidacy. Probably as much for the denials as him making it clear that he used, and he used throughout the whole second half of his career. None of the "I just experimented once" excuse that others have made.



TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.20
I'm shocked that people continue to believe that only the handful of players who have been outed were using steroids during the past 20 years. I mean shocked.

    Originally posted by TheOldMan
    From what reactions I've seen early on, he's only solidifying the sentiment against his candidacy. Probably as much for the denials as him making it clear that he used, and he used throughout the whole second half of his career. None of the "I just experimented once" excuse that others have made.


So McGwire's previous denials were laughable (I agree), but ... other players' claims that "they only experimented" are not? Amazing. And if you DON'T believe it, then what's the difference between those guys and McGwire (other than McGwire has gone ahead and admitted what he did)?

Oh, also, do you believe Barry Bonds' claim that he didn't know what was being put into his body?

There is no reason to keep Mark McGwire out of the Hall of Fame that doesn't also keep out Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriguez, and pretty much anyone else. In fact, *I* would agree with McGwire's claim that he didn't have an edge, but from the opposite direction: It couldn't have made him WORSE for sure, but EVERYONE WAS DOING IT.

EDIT: I mean, I guess it's possible to think McGwire simply on the merits of his performance doesn't deserve to get in, though I think that's crazy. But no steroids-related argument is valid unless you apply it to all of them.

EDIT 2: Also, I love how he's asked specifically about Canseco's claims, implying that Canseco has some credibility in the matter, but people STILL ignore Canseco's estimate that 90 percent of major league players from his time were juiced up. Which is it - does he know what he's talking about or not?

(edited by TheBucsFan on 11.1.10 2312)

(edited by TheBucsFan on 11.1.10 2313)

(edited by TheBucsFan on 11.1.10 2315)
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 161 days
Last activity: 128 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.47


    I mean, I guess it's possible to think McGwire simply on the merits of his performance doesn't deserve to get in, though I think that's crazy. But no steroids-related argument is valid unless you apply it to all of them.


I'd be one of those people. Of course, you have to wonder if he wasn't really on something all the way to his winning Rookie of the Year.

Also, the thing with Canseco is odd. He's had a lot right, but also a lot wrong.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 148 days
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.48
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    So McGwire's previous denials were laughable (I agree), but ... other players' claims that "they only experimented" are not? Amazing. And if you DON'T believe it, then what's the difference between those guys and McGwire (other than McGwire has gone ahead and admitted what he did)?


Actually, on that point I was answering StaggerLee by passing along what I was seeing from the MLB Network analysts reacting to the interview, not so much stating my own opinion. But since you ask, I don't believe the players who got caught, and almost uniformly swear that it was just once - they were just 'experimenting'.

For the question of McGwire getting into the HoF, I think his admission that he used over the last decade or so of his career takes away any willful ignorance/benefit of the doubt some voters might have been willing to extend.

(That said, I have no earthly idea where you get the notion that I was buying any of those arguments.)

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Oh, also, do you believe Barry Bonds' claim that he didn't know what was being put into his body?
      Originally posted by TheOldMan
      And about this saying he did it because of the wear and tear of the long seasons? Pal, that's why Frank Thomas didn't pass you on the all-time HR list, and why Griffey didn't pass all-time HR leader Hank Aaron. That's performance-enhancing in and of itself, in my book.



Did you even read my post??




spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
The problem with McGwire's HOF credentials is that he has given us a clear line of demarcation for his career, and looking at his career you can see he only plays at a HOF level once he begins using steroids.

According to McGwire he started using them after the 1993 season. His career line up to that point was 249/359/509 with a HR every 16.7 PA. Pretty much equal to the line of his fellow bash brother Jose Canseco.

After he started taking roids, his line going forward was 277/429/674 with a HR every 10.8 PA. Those are HOF numbers.

I think that's the difference between a guy like Bonds, or Clemens, versus McGwire and why McGwire is not a slam dunk case. Bonds was playing at a HOF pace before any accusations of steroid use entered the discussion for him. McGwire however shows a dramatic and immediate change once he begins taking steroids, and that forces me to have to at least downgrade his performance during that time, and assume that he only became a HOF-worthy player due to steroids.




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JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
Here's my favorite part:

Costas: If Cardinal hitters ask you about PED?

MM: It's the stupidest thing I ever did. There's no reason to even go down that road. It's an illusion. Look what I have to do. I'm sitting here because of a stupid mistake.


Now, he said he started taking them in '93, because he was so injured he was GOING TO RETIRE.

MARK McGWIRE ANNUAL SALARY

1993 Oakland Athletics $4,000,000
1994 Oakland Athletics $3,000,000
1995 Oakland Athletics $6,925,000
1996 Oakland Athletics $7,050,000
1997 Oakland Athletics $7,150,000
1998 St. Louis Cardinals $8,928,354
1999 St. Louis Cardinals $9,358,667
2000 St. Louis Cardinals $9,333,333
2001 St. Louis Cardinals $11,000,000

TOTAL $66,745,354

So, that's roughly $67 mil that he wouldn't have earned if he wouldn't have taken steroids, by my math. I'm sure he feels like it was really "stupid".



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Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.42
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    MM: Look what I have to do. I'm sitting here because of a stupid mistake.

I hate when people refer to something they did for several years as a singular mistake. He willfully did it on a continuous basis. He looks like an idiot denying it ever enhanced his performance. Few argue that steroids gave him the hand-eye coordination to hit a baseball, but if you've already got that, obviously increasing your speed and strength is going to help hit them farther. And hitting lots of 'em real far is the only reason anyone ever gave a shit about McGuire.

Baseball didn't have a coherent steroid policy until 2002, and the original policy was designed to help cover it up. The biggest hypocrites in all of this are the league. Deep down, even they know after the lockout of 1995 the sport was hurting, and the home-run race saved the game.





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Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.66
I think we're already sort of through the looking glass on steroids, and the next generation of users (Manny, A-Rod) aren't being treated nearly as harshly by the public and in all likelihood won't be treated as harshly by future HOF voters. It seems like it'll be just the last group of stars (McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Clemens, Bonds) who will be forever tarred by these accusations, which is unfortunate since all five of these guys should be in the Hall. Even Clemens, who is easily my least-favourite player of all time.

If Gaylord Perry can get into the Hall despite openly using an illegal pitch, why can't the Steroid Five get in despite using substances that weren't actually banned during their playing days?



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StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.91
The local NBC affiliate (ksdk.com) has a online poll that is running 99% with people saying if you used steroids, you should be barred from the HOF. Is this the sense out in the rest of the country?
Guru Zim
SQL Dejection
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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.32
Web Poll
Should any baseball player who admits or is found to have been using performance enhancing drugs of any kind ever be voted into the Hall of Fame?
Yes, but only if they admit it early. 1 Votes
Yes, it does not matter to me. 201 Votes
No way. 151 Votes
353 Total Votes

Not a huge sample right now, and it is definitely not 99% like you said.




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Since: 2.1.02

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.20
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Web Poll
    Should any baseball player who admits or is found to have been using performance enhancing drugs of any kind ever be voted into the Hall of Fame?
    Yes, but only if they admit it early. 1 Votes
    Yes, it does not matter to me. 201 Votes
    No way. 151 Votes
    353 Total Votes

    Not a huge sample right now, and it is definitely not 99% like you said.


The poll is clearly being manipulated. I looked shortly after StaggerLee posted that because I found it hard to believe, and the votes were something like:

Yes, but only if they admit it early. 1 Votes
Yes, it does not matter to me. 2 Votes
No way. 151 Votes

... Now, approximately 200 straight votes have gone for the middle option. I know, shock, an Internet poll is useless. In any case, there is clearly not 99 percent consensus in any direction on this issue.
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    I think we're already sort of through the looking glass on steroids, and the next generation of users (Manny, A-Rod) aren't being treated nearly as harshly by the public and in all likelihood won't be treated as harshly by future HOF voters. It seems like it'll be just the last group of stars (McGwire, Sosa, Palmeiro, Clemens, Bonds) who will be forever tarred by these accusations, which is unfortunate since all five of these guys should be in the Hall. Even Clemens, who is easily my least-favourite player of all time.

    If Gaylord Perry can get into the Hall despite openly using an illegal pitch, why can't the Steroid Five get in despite using substances that weren't actually banned during their playing days?

The drugs were banned. They simply did not have a testing program in place, or a punishment program. Obviously the honor system was not exactly the best mechanism for enforcing this.

I would argue on McGwire and Sosa being hall worthy. With Sosa not only is there the obvious issue of the corked bat, and the likely steroid usage, but really his entire career is based on 5 good years, which all things considered are almost certainly due to illegal substances. Unlike Clemens, Bonds, and even Palmeiro who were putting up HOF-trajectory careers long before anyone suspects them as using steroids. Sosa on the other hand from 1989-1997 put up a career OPS of 777. That is not even all-star team worthy, let alone HOF worthy. Then suddenly, at age 29, he puts together a five year stretch with a OPS of 1046. And then pretty much falls off the planet. That to me is not HOF worthy.



2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.46
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    Maybe this makes me cynical, but this out-of-nowhere admission makes me wonder what his agenda is.
    - StingArmy


That's exactly what I was thinking when I first heard the news, and then an ESPN guy asked another, "How do you think this'll effect the voting for the Hall of Fame?" And then I said, "Yup, that's it."



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