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The W - Pro Wrestling - Matt Hardy thoughts (RAW, 4/19/04)
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ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
I never thought I'd ever again be excited to see Matt Hardy... well... get his ass kicked. But hey, Matt's a face now! Just pleasepleaseplease let him leave the Hardy Boyz-era gimmick alone and concentrate on being a face version of Version 1. I loved the way they built up Matt's internal conflict-- “This chick's not my girlfriend anymore, I'm a bad guy now, and Kane's not after me... is it worth it?” but I'm glad he made the honorable decision. It made him look very noble, if not particularly smart. Hey, he had plenty of time to grab a steel chair or something. I mean, if you're gonna get your ass kicked, at least give the guy hell before you do.

On the other hand... once again, Matt Hardy's a good guy, and hopefully he keeps his current gimmick with just some minor modifications because of the turn. Whether Matt's back with Lita remains to be seen. I'd like them to play it off like Matt's still not happy with Lita, but he couldn't just stand there and watch her get her ass kicked. So Matt took the sacrifice for her, and he'd do it again, and he'd like to be her friend again, but ix-nay on the ove-lay. The only thing an extended run with Lita would do is help Lita, and quite frankly, she ain't worth it. It'd only drag Matt down, and I think Matt's good enough to be a future world champion in a few years, I really do.

Another negative aspect of a long-term re-teaming with Lita is that you know if Jeff Hardy's even remotely cleaned up, WWE would love to throw him back into that mix. Jeff's another guy who's held Matt down for far too long.

Even though that entire segment took about three minutes, if that, and JR and the King didn't do a very good job putting Matt over on the mic for his noble sacrifice, I'm very curious about the long-term implications of all this. The total no-sell by JR and the King makes me concerned that maybe WWE doesn't intend for this to go anywhere. But if you ask me, they'd be making a big mistake. Matt Hardy's the first guy since Shane in November to deliberately put himself in harm's way against Kane. Certainly, that has to count for something.

Any thoughts?



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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.90
Agreed on the whole JR/King issue. Did they even mention Matt and Lita's past ONCE? They could have gotten this over as a Savage/Liz style moment, but JR and Lawler completely no-sold their past relationship.

I'm really wishing they hadn't paired Matt for a potential feud with Kane. Both guys have been damaged goods for the past few months and whoever loses this feud could be completely dead in the water.




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Since: 26.1.03
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.64
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    On the other hand... once again, Matt Hardy's a good guy, and hopefully he keeps his current gimmick with just some minor modifications because of the turn. Whether Matt's back with Lita remains to be seen. I'd like them to play it off like Matt's still not happy with Lita, but he couldn't just stand there and watch her get her ass kicked. So Matt took the sacrifice for her, and he'd do it again, and he'd like to be her friend again, but ix-nay on the ove-lay. The only thing an extended run with Lita would do is help Lita, and quite frankly, she ain't worth it. It'd only drag Matt down, and I think Matt's good enough to be a future world champion in a few years, I really do.

Unfortunately, I don't think WWE sees things the same way you (and I, frankly) do. I don't think pairing him with Lita will "drag him down" in WWE's eyes. Maybe our eyes, yes. But he can't be dragged down much further than he already is.

I mean, Matt Hardy was losing to Val Venis on HEAT the same night Lita was fighting for the women's title. So I don't think the pairing with Lita will drag him down too much.



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Since: 23.5.02
From: Oklahoma

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.78
Well, eke, while I agree with you (as usual) I don't think a feud with Kane can be a good sign.

Kane is "main event" material and I think they will use a lower card feud to re-establish his monstrosity versus help the lower card guy get over.

BUT.........(warning, blind optimism ahead)

Of course the closest JEFF Hardy ever came to getting over was his ladder match (and feud) with the Undertaker. He played the underdog role real well and actually had some people pulling for him.

Maybe Matt could have similar success versus Kane BUT stay clean and stable enough to have that success turn into something much better.



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Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 65 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.22
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    I never thought I'd ever again be excited to see Matt Hardy... well... get his ass kicked. But hey, Matt's a face now! Just pleasepleaseplease let him leave the Hardy Boyz-era gimmick alone and concentrate on being a face version of Version 1.


Well, I'll do what I can, but no promises...


Other than that, I think the WWE knows going back to a Hardy Boyz gimmick would be death to him now. I mean, how many times did they try and fail to get a singles career going for this guy before the V.1 thing started to work?


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Since: 21.3.04
From: Johnson City, TN

Since last post: 3571 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.48
I apologise in advance, but this is from the KANE thread.

Right away, Matt Hardy v.2 the face is gonna suck.

Matt is a great tag team face,
ALLA Ricky Morton.
Matt is a great single heel,
ALLA Ricky Morton.
Matt is a terrible single face,
ALLA Ricky..
UPDATED:
Hardy Brother.
Parts Unknown
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.74
I was on the edge of my chair last night during that segment, anticipating the Jeff run-in. I just knew any second I would hear "SQUEEEEEEL!!!" from all the teenage chicks in the crowd.
Not that I want Jeff to return, mind you, unless he turns up his intensity level about fifty notches and kicks the drugs.
I think Matt will work better as a face with Lita by his side. Honestly, what else are they doing?
Those of you who think the feud with Kane is doom for Hardy, I would second Salami's point and refer you to the long Hardyz vs. Taker feud from a couple of years ago, which culminated with the Jeff vs. Taker ladder match. All around, it was good stuff.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Norfolk, England

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.95
Personally, I'm just glad they remembered that Matt Hardy exists. Would rather they hadn't jobbed him to Val on Heat first, but still. It also seems a bit early to start saying they're going to pair him with Lita again quite yet - I'm just interested to see what they WILL do. And interest in the future direction of Matt is something I wasn't expecting to have yesterday, after all.

And someone just pointed out I'm W of the Day today. I'm truly honoured... even if here in Britain, we could quite easily make that mean something not entirely complimentary...
XManiac24
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Since: 2.3.04

Since last post: 3828 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
As far as JR and "The Kink," as Honky likes to address him, they both royally suck and have been sucking for quite some time in my view.

I cannot stand JR. Absolutely everything about him is annoying and fake. "By God! It's Kane! By God, he's the most_________in the history of this business! By God, my butt smells and I sound like Chief Wiggum on a Roid Rage, AHYEAAAAA!!!!"

The man speaks out of both sides of his mouth and cannot keep his history straight, or even his own opinions. What really convinced me that he has no concept of reality anymore is when I saw him on a Food Network show and he was talking about his BBQ Sauce and barbequing in general. And I quote...

"I believe that barbequing creates great opportunities for people to get together and become better (acquainted)."

I guess you would have had to have heard it, but it sounded to me like a BBQ Ross Report. As far as Lawler goes, his act is tired and outdated, and with all of the recent Bobby Heenan appreciation and attention...I think someone is starting to become a little insecure.



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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.07

I forsee and Matt & Lita vs. Christian & Trish feud in the near future ...

I, for one, would mind seeing Matt & Christian lock it up once more.




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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
    Originally posted by The Amazing Salami
    Of course the closest JEFF Hardy ever came to getting over was his ladder match (and feud) with the Undertaker.


Are you saying that Jeff Hardy was never over any other time? That's just insane. Hardy consistently got very good crowd reactions. At every live WWE show I've been to recently, for every 13 year old girl in a Hardyzzzzzz ugly necklace chain thing, there was some 13 year old boy dressed like a Hardy.



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ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 126 days
Last activity: 36 days
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
Well, it's true that Jeff was always over with the teeny-bopper crowd (at least after the Hardyz shucked the Brood gimmick), but I think what Salami meant was that the Undertaker match was the first match where people were like “Hey... this guy could become a great singles star.”

Most people watching that great ladder match saw several occasions in which, conceivably, Jeff could have gotten to the Undisputed Title belt. As for me, the match was kind of ruined for me by my cynical smarkism. I figured there was no way in hell they'd give Jeff the belt, and I was right. If I'd been a mark, thinking of wrestling as legitimate competition (or if I didn't know as much about the inner workings of WWE as I do), the match probably would've been more exciting to me, 'cuz I would've thought Jeff stood a chance in hell.

That's actually a compelling reason why it's ill-advised to give someone a World Title shot out of the blue. Because no one thought, for example, that Rhyno would beat Chris Benoit for the title a couple of weeks ago with no buildup. Of course, there was TAKA Michinoku's match against WWF Champion Triple H a few years ago, and TAKA came agonizingly close on occasion, but I still don't think anyone expected him to win the title. Not only due to the lack of buildup, but the fact that he didn't even speak English.

Anyway... I agree that from a certain vantage point, pairing Matt back up with Lita won't “drag him down”, per se... after all, Lita's been getting about 1000% more TV time than Matt recently (unless you're one of the 7 people who watch Heat). What I meant was that Lita will make him look bad in a charisma and wrestling ability kind of way. I remember Lita's agonizing attempts to be an actor during the Matt/Jeff feud in late 2001. “I'm not taking ANYONE's side!” (ugh)... And of course, we all know how depriciated Lita is in the ring. Not that she was that great to begin with.

Still, I'm exercising cautious optimism. I just wish they hadn't glazed over the whole segment the way they did. As soon as Kane left the ring, they went right to a “Stay Tuned for Our Main Event!” mini-promo. They didn't really expend very much effort in showing the aftermath.

But yet it still felt very different compared to the average Kane-Shit-Kicks-Joe-Jobber segment. The hesitation, the internal conflict, the face turn and the fact that Matt deliberately put himself in harm's way (when he had to have known he had no chance in hell) really says a lot to me. Now WWE has to resist the temptation to piss it all away. Hell... make up for glazing over it last night by putting a compelling video package together on the subject. No one can put together a video package quite like WWE.



“Chris Benoit, finally, is the Heavyweight Champion of this world!”
--Jim Ross, WrestleMania XX

Wiener of the Day Title History:

Won the title on 5/27/02 from Lunacy in a hardcore match; lost the belt the following day to wheresitat42 via offbeat shenanigans

Regained the title on 7/3/02 by pinning SKLOKAZOID in a triple-threat match; lost the belt the next day to NickBockwinkelFan via heel chicanery

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Eddie Famous
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 333 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.33

    Originally posted by eviljonhunt
    Are you saying that Jeff Hardy was never over any other time? That's just insane. Hardy consistently got very good crowd reactions. At every live WWE show I've been to recently, for every 13 year old girl in a Hardyzzzzzz ugly necklace chain thing, there was some 13 year old boy dressed like a Hardy.


There's over and then there's MAIN EVENT over and outside of the gimmicky tag team, neither of the Hardy's have been MAIN EVENT over. BTW that 13-year-old demographic probably isn't very highly prized among WWE advertisers...

Mideon got good crowd reactions....



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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

Since last post: 2987 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    BTW that 13-year-old demographic probably isn't very highly prized among WWE advertisers


Oh, that's why the ads during WWE programming are primarily for cars, community theatre and safe investments to begin planning for your family.



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Since: 17.4.04
From: New Jersey

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
I agree with about most of what's been said. What I'd like to add is similar to what someone else posted. I'm just happy that Matt Hardy is in a storyline I can follow. I hated hearing Matt's music hit just in time to job to some nobody (cept Jericho). I actually thought he had a chance against Venis on Heat. Wasn't Venis supposed to get cut ???


Jackson
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Since: 4.1.02

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
    Originally posted by eviljonhunt81
      Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      BTW that 13-year-old demographic probably isn't very highly prized among WWE advertisers


    Oh, that's why the ads during WWE programming are primarily for cars, community theatre and safe investments to begin planning for your family.


World Wresting Entertainment To Debut New Sunday Morning Television Program on
Spike TV

Debut of "The WWE Experience™" Marks Start of Initiative to Attract a New
Generation of WWE® Fans

STAMFORD, Conn., Apr 19, 2004 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- World Wrestling
Entertainment® will debut a new Sunday morning television program on Spike TV
called, The WWE Experience. The television program is the first step in a
multi-faceted campaign directed at attracting younger viewers to the WWE brand.

The WWE Experience will debut on Spike TV on Sunday, May 2, at 10 a.m./9C. The
one-hour TV-PG program, hosted by Todd Grisham and WWE Diva Ivory™, will
feature weekly edited wrap-ups of the action and storylines from both of WWE's
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"For years, we had a Sunday morning program, a tradition which ended in May 2001
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have that same opportunity with The WWE Experience."

Kurt Schneider, WWE Executive Vice President, Marketing, said The WWE Experience
is the start of a concerted effort to find more opportunities for younger
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key point-of-entry for a new generation of wrestling fans, and will serve as the
foundation for several initiatives that will appeal specifically to our younger
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 333 days
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.33

Yes, you certainly can tell the upswing in Stacker 2 sales among the Junior High set.

The core WWE advertsing audience is young adult (17 or 18) thru the mid-twenties. If the Hardys REALLY brought that audience in enough quantities to make a difference in TV ratings (remembering that live audience reaction means little to nothing to a company that can sweeten the audio to their TV audience) then they'd have made damn sure Jeff H was happy enough to stick around.

You have to remember, in this day and age, house show reactions don't mean a thing to an industry reliant on TV ads and PPV buys.


(edited by Eddie Famous on 21.4.04 0011)


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eviljonhunt81
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Since: 6.1.02
From: not Japan

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    The core WWE advertsing audience is young adult (17 or 18) thru the mid-twenties.


That's what they want, and I'm not denying that it does make up most of their audience, but the pre-teen set is quickly becoming the new "most sought after" group by advertisers. The reason that young adults (males, primarily) are so sought after by advertisers is their willingness to spend money. However, younger and younger kids are also beginning to be seen as a group that can and will spend large amounts of money on crap, so they are becoming a bigger and bigger deal to advertisers.


    If the Hardys REALLY brought that audience in enough quantities to make a difference in TV ratings (remembering that live audience reaction means little to nothing to a company that can sweeten the audio to their TV audience) then they'd have made damn sure Jeff H was happy enough to stick around.


I figured that was why they let him have that ladder match in the first place.


    You have to remember, in this day and age, house show reactions don't mean a thing to an industry reliant on TV ads and PPV buys.


    (edited by Eddie Famous on 21.4.04 0011)


I'm not just going on crowd reaction. The only people who sold more mercahndise than the Hardys (from what I would gather by simply being at live events) were Austin, Undertaker and maybe one or two more real top level guys. The Hardys moved merchandise, even after they were split up. To pretend like they weren't over with the crowd or an assett to the WWE is ridiculous.



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Since: 23.5.02
From: Oklahoma

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    I think what Salami meant was that the Undertaker match was the first match where people were like “Hey... this guy could become a great singles star.”.


Yes, that's exactly what I meant. "Over" as in big-time, out of the midcard, in the main event over. Not just crowd yells for you, sells merch over. Sorry for the confusion.



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Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    Yes, you certainly can tell the upswing in Stacker 2 sales among the Junior High set.

    The core WWE advertsing audience is young adult (17 or 18) thru the mid-twenties. If the Hardys REALLY brought that audience in enough quantities to make a difference in TV ratings (remembering that live audience reaction means little to nothing to a company that can sweeten the audio to their TV audience) then they'd have made damn sure Jeff H was happy enough to stick around.

    You have to remember, in this day and age, house show reactions don't mean a thing to an industry reliant on TV ads and PPV buys.


    (edited by Eddie Famous on 21.4.04 0011)


Dude, who do you think they're selling those action figures and toy wrestling rings to? (Besides a friend of mine who likes to recreate Pay-Per-Views in his room.)

I'd also argue that live reactions mean a hell of a lot, especially in terms of who they're gonna push. You think Eddie Guererro would have the title right now, if people hadn't been chanting his name at shows for the past six months? As for Jeff Hardy, I'll bet the ONLY thing keeping him around that last year were live reactions from Goth girls who listen to Type O Negative and the boys trying to nail them.

And if the WWE isn't paying attention to the crowd, as you implied, then they're dumb. I'm not doubting that they sweeten audio, but if they do that too much, they run the risk of operating in a vaccuum and end up pushing guys that NOBODY likes.



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