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The W - Movies & TV - Man of Steel (Page 2)
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by lotjx
      There were five different ways for that to end and none of them had to make Superman into something he is not.


    But Superman already is that.


    Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
    Mark Waid agrees wholeheartedly (bleedingcool.com), but follow down the article and we see Superman has killed before, specifically Zod, in the past. The precedent is there.

    Also, didn't Superman kill Doomsday at the same time Doomsday killed him? The memory of that story was always Superman died but didn't Doomsday also die by Superman's hand simultaneously?

    In my view, there was no way to ultimately stop Zod except to kill him. There's no prison on Earth that can hold him, the Kryptonian ships were destroyed so no tech from there could hold him, the Phantom Zone was destroyed when Krypton was... what was Superman to do in the time he had and the circumstances he was in? Throw Zod into the sun? That would only make him more powerful? Bury him in the Earth or in the moon? He'd just come back and wreak more havoc.

    There is no room in the universe for General Zod. Letting him live would have ultimately continued to endanger Earth. To me, it was the right call. I endorse Super Neck Snap.



God, I love Mark Waid. My problem is the sheer brutality of it. I did argue with friend that it has been done before and I am sorta ok with it. Both times there was literally no choice and when it happens in the movies, its one of my favorite Superman scenes. A lot of it has to do with the way it was filmed and rather ambiguous it is too. The Williams theme is perfect for that scene too when it happens in the old movies. Which is my other problem with this film, Hans Zimmer is a shit composer on these superhero films. Superman needs the rising theme of hope not a theme that keeps steady and never climaxes. Zimmer is the girl who only goes so far to give out hand jobs of composers. I want to fucking feel like I orgasm musically like Williams and Eflamn pulled off.

The real problem is the writers could have ended it 20 minutes early and the scene does not feel like there was no choice. It was more lets make Superman edgy which is a total fail. He doesn't need to be edgy, the audience needs to be reminded that he is cool without the darkness. I am sorry if this is not vague enough for people, but I still have no idea how to do spoiler tags.




(edited by lotjx on 15.6.13 0127)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
The Goon
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.21
Another Smallville connection: Mackenzie Gray, who plays Jax-Ur in the movie, was a Lex clone on Smallville.

Article (no real movie details)
BOSsportsfan34
Pepperoni








Since: 2.1.03
From: MA

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.94
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Guys, please talk about Man of Steel. I'd love to hear more opinions about it, pro and con. I'm a lot less interested in the thread being jacked for what DVDs you have and haven't seen.


Went to see it this morning and I thought it was very good.



"I like this Ray Lewis fellow. He would do well in my era. Men who killed other men were an integral part of 1880s base ball." - Old Hoss Radbourn

Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.50
    Originally posted by odessasteps

    For people that want a more archetypal Superman, I believe all of the Dini/Timm Superman:TAS are still on Netflix.




That series is fantastic. Overshadowed by Batman, but as good IMO.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
      Originally posted by odessasteps

      For people that want a more archetypal Superman, I believe all of the Dini/Timm Superman:TAS are still on Netflix.




    That series is fantastic. Overshadowed by Batman, but as good IMO.


Yup. We all like cartoons. Now, how about talking about Man of Steel?

I saw it for the second time and for the first time on IMAX 3D and it was an even better experience. The storytelling felt less disjointed and flowed smoother for me, and the action was even more spectacular. It of course helped that there were no "surprises" but it holds up nicely as a complete experience. Your mileage may vary.

I am very happy to leave the beloved ghost of Christopher Reeve behind and race behind this new Man of Steel.



"Cody, I mustache you a question." - The Miz
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Since: 17.6.02
From: Whitehouse Station, NJ

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#26 Posted on
I watched this movie with a huge happy grin on my face (Like I did with Avengers) I just was able to shut off all previous knowledge, get sucked in and enjoy it for what it was.

GRL
Frankfurter








Since: 13.7.02
From: Austin

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.14
    Originally posted by John Orquiola


      Yup. We all like cartoons. Now, how about talking about Man of Steel?




    I think your point would be better made if you tweeted this concern, then came back here to the W and posted THOSE tweets here.

    As for Man of Steel, this was the loud and punchy Superman movie I've been waiting for. Cheesy lines and absent chemistry between him and Lois aside, it was clear Snyder nailed it from the beginning scenes on Krypton as far as visuals were concerned.

    And I'd pay to see a solo Faora movie today. Twice.


    (edited by GRL on 16.6.13 1121)
oudom
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Since: 12.1.12

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.00
Yay, the movie made $125.1 million (thr.com) this weekend. Already more than Green Lantern's lifetime domestic gross.

Surely Faora survived, right? She is invulnerable under the Earth's yellow sun.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
Goyer is rumored to been hired for Justice League which is said to be ready for....2015. Yeah, I don't know if I would put any movie into that summer.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.38
There was such an air of inconsistency with this movie that pretty much jarred me from start to finish. You can't have it both ways with this kind of movie or this kind of character. You can't have him try to make a big show out of saving a couple of bystanders while causing billions of dollars in property damage...which is likely killing thousands of others in the process. In that sense, this movie was carelessly thought out.

This may one of the worst depictions of Jonathan Kent I've ever seen. Through no fault of Kevin Costner's, who did the best he could with what he was given. But Jonathan Kent was kind of a dick and he's one of those characters that should NEVER be thought of that way.

On the other end of the spectrum, Russell Crowe's Jor-El was damn good, even though his lingering appearances reeked of "Russell Crowe is contractually obligated to appear in this movie for more than 10 minutes."

And Henry Cavill did the best he could. I think with a better script, he could be a truly iconic Superman. As it is, he's merely "good" in the same sense that Brandon Routh was merely "good."

I don't have a problem with the major character-breaking moment in the climax in itself. But if you're going to violate a major staple of the character in such a manner, then dammit, make it MEAN something! Don't have him give a primal scream for 30 seconds and then immediately forget about it in the next scene and never mention it again! That's when it gets hackneyed!

And finally, to have a GOOD Superman movie, it has to be as much about Clark as it is about Superman. There was never any kind of dichotomous tone set for Clark and Superman and that really hurt this movie. The Nolan Batman movies worked because they worked to establish both Batman and Bruce, while Man of Steel...tried to create some kind of weird Clark/Superman hybrid that never really gelled.

(edited by It's False on 16.6.13 1145)

StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.92
This is not "a movie adaptation of a Superman comic". Its a movie based on a comic book. Just like Nolan's Batman wasn't exactly like the comics(from what I've heard, I don't read comics) this was a solid movie with great performances by everybody involved. Loved the action. As for the Zod question, yes Superman did something unimaginable, he immediately reacted with remorse and sadness.

I did laugh out loud when superman was sent crashing into the 100 days without a workplace injury sign.



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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Goyer is rumored to been hired for Justice League which is said to be ready for....2015. Yeah, I don't know if I would put any movie into that summer.


No, there won't be a Justice League movie for 2015. The only thing greenlit by Warner Bros. is Man of Steel 2 with no release date announced. Warners was never as confident as Marvel Films was going into the master plan of an Avengers movie. Warners was holding its breath hoping Man of Steel didn't flop. It didn't, so now they're free to move forward on a shared movie DC universe with confidence that the audience will be there to support it. But it doesn't seem like they have anything ready as another DC movie to get into theaters two summers from now. It won't be like how Marvel had a movie or two every year from Iron Man 2 onward into Avengers, at least not until Warners figures out what their strategy is.

    Originally posted by oudom

    Surely Faora survived, right? She is invulnerable under the Earth's yellow sun.



Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
She's in the Phantom Zone with the other Kryptonians except Zod. There's no yellow sun in the Phantom Zone. The bigger question is whether Christopher Meloni is alive in the Phantom Zone.



    Originally posted by It's False
    This may one of the worst depictions of Jonathan Kent I've ever seen. Through no fault of Kevin Costner's, who did the best he could with what he was given. But Jonathan Kent was kind of a dick and he's one of those characters that should NEVER be thought of that way.


Maybe it's just my 23+ year fandom for Kevin Costner talking, but I don't get that criticism. Man of Steel was a different way of looking at Jonathan Kent. Jonathan Kent was a normal man dealing with a son who is something extraordinary and unprecedented. He had to protect his son and keep the Biggest Secret In The World - his son is an alien, meaning there are aliens, and all that means. But he's just a Kansas farmer trying to raise and protect his family, and he was doing his best. He's not some high minded philosopher, he didn't always know what was exactly right. He was frightened too, of what the world would do to his son if they found him out. Everything for him was about protecting Clark and molding him to not use what he can do do harm others. That makes him a dick? He was just doing his best. That's one of the themes of Man of Steel. Everyone trying to work out what would be the right thing to do. No one just automatically knows, except Jor-El, who's always right. All of the humans have to muddle through and figure out what's best, and that includes Clark Kent, who's human at heart.

(edited by John Orquiola on 16.6.13 1610)

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Since: 20.3.02
From: California

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.38
Forget Justice League. Just do World's Finest. The draw is in a live action Superman and Batman existing in the same world. All of the other characters just get in the way, except maybe Wonder Woman.

Although, the name is corny, so they should probably call it something else.


Saw it yesterday and wasn't a big fan. It just felt like a lot of "stuff" happening without any real meaning. The visual palette Synder used was cool looking, but the fights felt like a jumbled mess. The only part, action-wise, that I liked was that extended flying through buildings shot with Zod.

I agree with the assessment that they should have built up Clark as much as Superman. This felt more like it was all about Superman with a little bit of Smallville Superclark. Which wouldn't have been so bad as a "first mission" story, except that the only way to have it work was for Lois to know that Clark was Superman, which I think will bite them in the ass in sequels, unless he wipes her memory with a magic kiss or something.

A big part of the fun of the Superman character is the pseudo love triangle, and they really can't do that now. That's a big part of what makes Superman a relatable character, the idea that Lois loves Superman, but thinks Clark is a dork even though he's really Superman. They can't do that now and that's the heart of the character in a lot of ways.

The other big thing I didn't like was all of the destruction caused to the city. I know, it's not Superman's fault and he is just Baby Superman in this one so he can't save 'em all, but it just had no weight. Actually, a TON of destruction can be cool... if there's meaning and a sense of loss to it, but here, it felt like nothing but cool visuals. It should be HORRIFYING when it happens. I never really felt that.

Forget about terraforming the earth, thousands of people die with each thrust those giant machines gave off. I know there's an even bigger threat looming, but that's still terrible in and of itself, and it's barely acknowledged.

Also, Jenny Olson might as well have just not been there. It's like they just threw in a scene in the third act because they forgot to give her something the whole movie. Fishburne was okay, though.

On the plus side, the visual style was good, the acting was great, and I like that it was Superman vs another superhuman and not some Lex Luthor real estate nonsense. Didn't really care for Amy Adams and I usually like her in stuff, but Cavill, Costner, Shannon, and Faora were all really good. There were no ghosts of Christopher Reeve or the Richard Donner version here. Superman is fully modernized and I hope it isn't another 8 years till the next Superman movie.


I don't see what the controversy is about over the ending:

Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
Zod was clearly about to kill people with his heat vision and Superman killed him out of defense for those lives. I don't see any inconsistency with the Superman character here in any version. He was directly saving people's lives.

I read about this going in and, based on descriptions, I thought Superman just outright killed Zod in a fight. Wasn't the case at all, and it made total sense for Superman to do what he did.

I honestly thought it would have been bolder, with all of the tweaks they made and the added "realism," to have Superman kill Zod in a straight up fight. The innocent people in the train station just felt like a convenient "out" to justify the killing.


(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 16.6.13 1551)
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.12
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2013/06/15/dc-vs-marvel-2015-cant-get-here-fast-enough.aspx

This says otherwise about Justice League vs Avengers 2.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73

I have mixed feelings about it. The first two acts of the 1978 Superman film are just about flawless. Unfortunately, it then descends into utter crap in the third act, completely abusing the willful suspension of disbelief for the audience in a way that completely damages the entire franchise. Man of Steel, conversely, has two fairly jumbled, sombre first acts. I've never seen a Superman universe where everyone was grumpy and unlikeable all the time. I find Amy Adams to be utterly overexposed and not terribly pretty, so I wasn't thrilled with her Lois.

Speaking of Lois Lane, her knowing who Clark Kent is before he comes to the Daily Planet is just utter and complete garbage. So much of the essence of Superman lore is her not knowing, and figuring it out. And I figure this means in the sequel we'll get another actor playing Clark Kent as "dreamy dude who happens to wear glasses", instead of as in inept klutz, as Reeve brilliantly played him. So that annoyed me pretty much.

Too much glaring product placement, too. And last gripe, what's with the language? Kids are bound to watch a Superman movie no matter how violent you make it, so why put in a line like "Are we done measuring dicks?" which has no place in a Superman movie, ever. Ugh.

All that being said, I liked just about everything else in the movie, loved the initial Krypton sequence, loved Crowe as Jor-El (he's no Brando, but who is?), loved the new Supersuit, the way he launches himself to fly, best planet explosion I've ever seen, loved the scale of the fights except for like thousands of people dying and everyone being cool with that. For a launchpad film, maybe the fights were a little too epic, actually. But they were visually an experience I've almost never had at the movies. I guess all that stuff I hated would make it seem I disliked the film; I really didn't. It was enjoyable, but tonally I just didn't "get" it. So bleak. Christopher Nolan needs a puppy.





Quiet, Or Papa Spank!
oudom
Kishke








Since: 12.1.12

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.00
    Originally posted by John Orquiola

      Originally posted by oudom

      Surely Faora survived, right? She is invulnerable under the Earth's yellow sun.



    Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
    She's in the Phantom Zone with the other Kryptonians except Zod. There's no yellow sun in the Phantom Zone. The bigger question is whether Christopher Meloni is alive in the Phantom Zone.




Yeah, I mis-remembered what happened to Faora at the end. Went to watch it again this morning and loved it more the 2nd time. They did not show the title of the movie at the beginning, only at the end.
Mr Heel II
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Since: 25.2.02

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.09
I really liked Crowe's Jor-El...and that's about it. This felt like a generic action flick with a Superman theme tossed in.

Amy Adams had absolutely NO business playing Lois Lane.
Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.69

I really enjoyed this flick, but I'll agree about Amy Adams as Lois Lane ... I just wasn't feeling it.
treborrv
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Since: 21.1.04

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#39 Posted on
I agree about the low rating on Rotten Tomatoes - I mean, it's not a perfect movie but jeez, it's still pretty good and has everything you could want out of a summer blockbuster / potential tentpole / superhero movie.

TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.57
I won't go see this in theaters specifically because of the Rotten Tomatoes rating. You guys have tempted me with your discussion of it, but my rule of thumb is, if it is below 70 percent on Rotten Tomatoes, I don't pay to see it in theaters. That just seems to be my magical cutoff where (with some exceptions, of course) almost everything rated higher I end up enjoying, and almost everything rated lower I have not enjoyed. I was disappointed by that rating, because I was really looking forward to this movie, but too many times I've either been told or convinced myself that this time, the critics got it wrong, and almost every time, it turns out the critics were right. So I'll be waiting until I can download uh, buy it on DVD.

There's probably something to be said for confirmation bias - I see the rating on Rotten Tomatoes before I go see the movie, and that probably impacts my expectations going in and thus how I receive the movie. But even looking back at movies I watched before Rotten Tomatoes existed or I knew what it was, that 70 percent figure is still a pretty significant cutoff.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 17.6.13 1401)
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