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The W - Pro Wrestling - Making it a triple threat cripples WWE's chance in making the main event mean something long term (Page 2)
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CRZ
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
Hey, here's an idea. On your first day here, try to NOT start a flamewar by making what you think are brilliant comebacks. How's that sound? Great.



CRZ
ParagonOfVirtue
Salami








Since: 20.8.03
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.24
My post isn't about the politics behind the main event or how it will affect the push or title reign of Chris Benoit or how HBK's inclusion in the main event is because he's a Kliqster for life..or ANY of that.

I'm simply saying that a triple threat main event, with one established and past-his-prime babyface being inserted into what could have been a superheel vs an underdog babyface one-on-one match loses the epic quality of a Wrestlemania main event. The chance WWE had to mark this match as a new chapter has been hurt considerably. I know the average mark doesn't care about this, but some of you underestimate how important the hardcore fanbase is to the wrestling business.
XManiac24
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Since: 2.3.04

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Sure, thing Boss...but really, my comebacks aren't brilliant...just backed up...but cool..I won't cause trouble...but how am I suppose to defend my post when people take it out of context and or really don't have a clue to as to what they are saying..I have often been confused about that in the world of the message board.

(edited by XManiac24 on 2.3.04 1438)
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
    Originally posted by XManiac24
    Sure, thing Boss...but really, my comebacks aren't brilliant...just backed up...but cool..I won't cause trouble...but how am I suppose to defend my post when people take it out of context and or really don't have a clue to as to what they are saying..I have often been confused about that in the world of the message board.

    (edited by XManiac24 on 2.3.04 1438)
Well, for starters, I think you could have left "shut your mouth or break your fingers" out.



CRZ
XManiac24
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Since: 2.3.04

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Ahhh...see, I like you already, Boss. You at least gave me a reason, sweet...I'll keep my defenses shut mouthless and break fingerless...
SKLOKAZOID
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Since: 20.3.02
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.79
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    "I don't think it's worth my money to order this match. Just my opinion. I could be wrong, but why risk it?"

    I sincerely hope that you're not judging the show's value based on this one match. I don't think that's the wa to aproach it, ya know? Not after the effort that's been put in across the board.


If the one match is the main event of the pay-per-view, there is a lot of weight put on it, which can make or break a Pay-Per-View. You may view it differently, and if you like what you see, fine. But, I like to view WWE as a whole and not focus on the one part I like and pretend like all of the crappy stuff isn't happening. That's just not the way I approach it as a fan. If the top of the card is crap, then the undercard is pointless.

The top match on the card makes a huge difference, because it's the match that takes up the majority of the attention.

Granted, for the last 3 WrestleManias, WWE has taken a very weak "Everyone gets a Main Event!" approach, most notably last year with it's watered-down Brock/Angle, Rock/Austin, McMahon/Hogan main events. Because the attention was so dilluted and the stories for at least two of those matches were not strong, people didn't really care to see last year's WrestleMania.

So, while it's hard to tell what exactly the "Main Event" this year, the Triple Threat Match seems to be more prominent than the WWE Title match and Brock/Goldberg, and rightfully so. It has the Royal Rumble winner and the most dominant champion of the last 4 years involved in it. And, for some reason, HBK, too.

Brock/Goldberg is a dream match for some, Eddie/Angle is a dream WWE Title match for others, but they've just been introduced for the show in the last two weeks. Eddie/Angle was subtley hyped since January, but we'll see how high it gets on the card.

In any case, if most of the weight is going to be put on this Triple Threat match, then if it's a weak match, then the organization will look comparatively week, no matter how good the matches on the undercard are. What are those midcarders all fighting for in the storyline? The chance to main event. If the main event has no real value, then it isn't worth fighting for.

If the main event isn't worth much, then you just have a bunch of random good/great matches happening on the undercard that ultimately lead nowhere. What was Benoit fighting for all these years if he's just going to end up helping HBK carry HHH to great match? That isn't a very good career goal.

There's a Benoit or two on the undercard at WMXX, too. But, what's the point if the end goal is futile?
samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.20
Damn, can't yall just wait until you actually see what happens in the match to start bitching about it? You've got no idea whats going to happen, nobody does. What the hell is the point is arguing about the historic significance of a match TWO WEEKS BEFORE IT EVEN HAPPENS!

I for one will be sitting back and letting the WWE entertain me like they always have. This isnt the freakin apocalypse.



my smackdown create-a-wrestler will beat yours anyday

beliee dat cracka
ges7184
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Since: 7.1.02
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
If we really wanted to follow storylines long-term, we will see that the problem is not that Michaels has been put into a three-way match with Benoit and Triple H. The problem is that Benoit doesn't belong in this match in the first place. He should be wrestling Brock Lesnar for the WWE Title. That's how the long-term booking was set up (or at least seemingly so). That's where they could tell the story of a man who had all kind of obstacles thrown in his way only to overcome each and every one of them and prevail in the end. The fact is they never really did explain why Benoit decided he rather face Triple H. (Benoit has said nothing, Triple H throws out there something about wanting to be in the 'big leagues' or something to that effect from time to time) If they would have matched up Benoit against Lesnar ,it would have left Triple H and HBK free to settle their issue once and for all (and they would have had the option of saving the last man standing match for Wrestlemania, as that probably should have been the match to blowoff this feud).

Of course, that doesn't leave much for Goldberg, which is probably part of the reason this reshuffling took place. Still, from strictly a storytelling perspective, it looks like to me that Lesnar/Benoit and HBK/Triple H makes more sense.

(edited by ges7184 on 3.3.04 0934)


Everything that is wrong in this world can be blamed on Freddie Prinze Jr.
samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.20
    Originally posted by ges7184
    If we really wanted to follow storylines long-term, we will see that the problem is not that Michaels has been put into a three-way match with Benoit and Triple H. The problem is that Benoit doesn't belong in this match in the first place. He should be wrestling Brock Lesnar for the WWE Title. That's how the long-term booking was set up (or at least seemingly so). That's where they could tell the story of a man who had all kind of obstacles thrown in his way only to overcome each and every one of them and prevail in the end. The fact is they never really did explain why Benoit decided he rather face Triple H. (Benoit has said nothing, Triple H throws out there something about wanting to be in the 'big leagues' or something to that effect from time to time) If they would have matched up Benoit against Lesnar ,it would have left Triple H and HBK free to settle their issue once and for all (and they would have had the option of saving the last man standing match for Wrestlemania, as that probably should have been the match to blowoff this feud).

    Of course, that doesn't leave much for Goldberg, which is probably part of the reason this reshuffling took place. Still, from strictly a storytelling perspective, it looks like to me that Lesnar/Benoit and HBK/Triple H makes more sense.

    (edited by ges7184 on 3.3.04 0934)


Damn Goldberg. If what you say is possible true, then he's screwed everything up!! If Austin was still healthy enough to work a match, we couldve had Austin/Goldberg at this Wrestlemania too, which probably wouldve made this the greatest show EVER.

Nevertheless, I still think this will end up being my favorite PPV ever



my smackdown create-a-wrestler will beat yours anyday

beliee dat cracka
SKLOKAZOID
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.79
    Originally posted by ges7184
    If we really wanted to follow storylines long-term, we will see that the problem is not that Michaels has been put into a three-way match with Benoit and Triple H. The problem is that Benoit doesn't belong in this match in the first place.


The winner of the Rumble belongs in the title match, irregardless of what feuds are going on at the time. That's the way it has always worked. Anything else is just personal feelings on HBK's part, in the storyline.

Lesnar/Benoit was what they were working on with SMACKDOWN! since about Survivor Series, but the plan changed around December. They still continued teasing Benoit/Lesnar, but the intention was to move Benoit to SMACKDOWN! We know this is the case, because the rumors existed in December and were corroborated the night after the Rumble.

I don't think it had so much to do with Goldberg as it did RAW's lack of potential challengers to HHH. There were no rumors of a Triple Threat match in December, but that may not mean it wasn't the plan.

I think it actually makes sense in storyline terms for Benoit to pursue HHH and get the last laugh on Heyman. They just didn't explain it very well. Heyman put up every roadblock possible to prevent Benoit from pursuing his dream, so he went after HHH. The way it came off on TV, though, was very poorly and made Brock's title look worthless. Thus, another problem with having two world titles. Which one are the talents really competing for?

    Originally posted by samoflange
    Damn, can't yall just wait until you actually see what happens in the match to start bitching about it?

    Originally posted by samoflange
    Nevertheless, I still think this will end up being my favorite PPV ever


And here you are judging the PPV before it happens. I'm not going to suggest you to stop doing it, though. It's exactly what you are supposed to do with PPVs.

The art of the wrestling PPV is the art of hype. Shows are sold based on the vision WWE plants in the heads of potential buyers, and it is up to them to judge whether or not the PPV is worth the money. Shows, namely PPV buyrates, ARE judged based on expectations.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 3.3.04 0823)
samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.20
I see your point, SKLOKAZOID. But, there's a difference between being excited about Wrestlemania and analyzing every single moment which leads up to it.

Youre all just a bunch of Negative Nancys (quote Cartman)

Just sit back and relax and enjoy the show



my smackdown create-a-wrestler will beat yours anyday

beliee dat cracka
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.59
    Originally posted by samoflange
    Damn, can't yall just wait until you actually see what happens in the match to start bitching about it? You've got no idea whats going to happen, nobody does. What the hell is the point is arguing about the historic significance of a match TWO WEEKS BEFORE IT EVEN HAPPENS!

    I for one will be sitting back and letting the WWE entertain me like they always have. This isnt the freakin apocalypse.

Personally speaking the problem for me is that is that I'm not interested in this match or who wins, and it's totally because it being a triple threat match. This could be acceptable for a brand PPV or something but Wrestlemania it comes off really hallow. In Wrestlemania you expect your World title matches a big important climax, even if the feud does go on afterwards it's nice going in thinking "This is major for all involved". This match set up there's nothing conclusive... Benoit Wins: HHH says you never beat me for the title one on one therefore making this WM win anti-climatic. HBK Wins: He won it from HHH, IN MSG, IN one of the Big 4 PPV, IN a gimmicked match just a little over a year ago. Just to lose it a month later to HHH what's so special about this time around. HHH Wins: Wouldn't be surprised and wouldn't really care either.

Maybe that is the plan, maybe they want HHH to have his special WM20 moment that they are trying to make his opponents push look so superficial that it will take out the sting when HHH gets to stand over them... For a guy(H) who is looked upon so highly by the company to be cemented on top of the roster, for him not to be talented or confident on his ability to put heat on a HHH/Benoit match without the need to rehash of a "10" years in the making opponent is sad. I mean gawd Vic/Molly can go 1on1 but not HHH/Benoit. I like HBK I really do, he's been great but his inclusion here doesn't work for me. I've said this before if they didn't have confidence in Benoit then push someone else don't give this half arsed push with a bunch of strings attached, that doesn't help anyone. Well 'cept for the top heel who says "He can't drop the title to anyone because there's no credible faces." It helps that guy.

(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 5.3.04 1510)


smark/net attack wienerville advisory is lowered to BLUE alert - Guarded (Due to Eddie being WWE champ and facing Angle at WM, Benoit winning the Rumble in World title match in mania BUT Kliq members is still a threat - Vince you can save us from these threats) 2/17

Honors for Smartest thing ever written, 5th Horseman "When Victoria, Trish, Molly, and Lilian were in the ring.. I commented to my friends that all of the 4 ladies in the ring were hotter than the all 4 that are fighting over who is the hottest in the WWE"
Snookum
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Since: 19.6.03
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.79
My view of this match is like this: I was very interested in the match when it looked to be HHH vs. Benoit. I lost complete interest when a third person was added. Didn't matter that it was HBK one way or the other, I just don't care for the whole "triple threat" concept. Never have. It's always a cheat - like having a pepetual run-in occuring during the length of the match.
Spaceman Spiff
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    I think it actually makes sense in storyline terms for Benoit to pursue HHH and get the last laugh on Heyman. They just didn't explain it very well. Heyman put up every roadblock possible to prevent Benoit from pursuing his dream, so he went after HHH.

And I still say that makes Benoit look weak. He's not getting the last laugh on Heyman, he's just admitting Heyman bested him, so he needs to switch shows, rather than force Heyman and/or Lesnar to give him a match.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 5.3.04 1521)


SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.79
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

      I think it actually makes sense in storyline terms for Benoit to pursue HHH and get the last laugh on Heyman. They just didn't explain it very well. Heyman put up every roadblock possible to prevent Benoit from pursuing his dream, so he went after HHH.

    And I still say that makes Benoit look weak. He's not getting the last laugh on Heyman, he's just admitting Heyman bested him, so he needs to switch shows, rather than force Heyman and/or Lesnar to give him a match.

    (edited by Spaceman Spiff on 5.3.04 1521)


I don't see it as Heyman besting him. The biggest thing WWE did to screw up the match was not having Benoit show up on SMACKDOWN! and giving Heyman his last chance. It would have made Benoit look much, much stronger to have both RAW and SMACKDOWN! bidding for him. Suddenly, the man who wanted Benoit off SMACKDOWN! wants him back on his show. Benoit essentially challenges both HHH and Lesnar, and is willing to take on either of the two strongest champs in WWE. It would have worked wonders. Benoit has bargaining leverage and he knows how to use it. When you have BOTH champions trying to have you in the WrestleMania title match, that's the strongest a challenger can possibly look.

If Heyman refused Benoit outright, Vince McMahon shows up and admonishes Heyman for being an asshole and fires him, or puts his job in jeapordy if Brock can't beat Goldberg. All this because Benoit just wanted a title shot.

I think that it also boils down to the fundamental flaw of the brand split. There isn't just one world title here, there are two. If one crooked General Manager blocks someone from a shot at the World Title, and the guy really wants a World Title, he can just jump ship.

But, ultimately, what happened was just bad writing.

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 5.3.04 1310)
ParagonOfVirtue
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Since: 20.8.03
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.23
It would have made more sense if, after the Rumble, they waited a week before any roster switches occurred.

Royal Rumble - HBK and HHH draw, Benoit wins Rumble.
Raw - HBK wins no. 1 contender
Smackdown - Heyman confronts Benoit and says that when he said that Benoit wouldn't get a title shot, he meant it.

Then on the next Raw, continue off where they went right after the PPV. It would make more sense if they gave the Smackdown side more closure.

However, I must say, Benoit vs Lesnar as the main event would have RULED. But the E dropped the ball on that, and HHH vs Benoit for that matter. Triple threats suck.
Spaceman Spiff
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    I don't see it as Heyman besting him. The biggest thing WWE did to screw up the match was not having Benoit show up on SMACKDOWN! and giving Heyman his last chance. It would have made Benoit look much, much stronger to have both RAW and SMACKDOWN! bidding for him. Suddenly, the man who wanted Benoit off SMACKDOWN! wants him back on his show. Benoit essentially challenges both HHH and Lesnar, and is willing to take on either of the two strongest champs in WWE. It would have worked wonders. Benoit has bargaining leverage and he knows how to use it. When you have BOTH champions trying to have you in the WrestleMania title match, that's the strongest a challenger can possibly look.

    If Heyman refused Benoit outright, Vince McMahon shows up and admonishes Heyman for being an asshole and fires him, or puts his job in jeapordy if Brock can't beat Goldberg. All this because Benoit just wanted a title shot.

    I think that it also boils down to the fundamental flaw of the brand split. There isn't just one world title here, there are two. If one crooked General Manager blocks someone from a shot at the World Title, and the guy really wants a World Title, he can just jump ship.

    But, ultimately, what happened was just bad writing.

    (edited by SKLOKAZOID on 5.3.04 1310)

Why would Benoit want to go after HHH? He had issues w/ Brock (beat Benoit, plus disrespected him post-match). Heyman would know that Benoit really wants Lesnar, so Benoit really doesn't have bargaining leverage. Heyman could counter with "go ahead and go after HHH, if you're comfortable with knowing you'll never get your shot at Lesnar." Why would Heyman want to keep Benoit on SD? Benoit threatening to go to Raw only makes life easier for Heyman. It would be 100% guaranteed that Benoit would never get his shot at SD's title.

And adding Vince just makes Benoit look even worse. He can't take care of his own business, so Vince has to come & bail out poor, helpless Benoit. Any kind of strong face would have put Heyman & Lesnar in a position where they had no choice but to give the title shot, Heyman's previous declarations be damned.



SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.79
In my completely hypothetical angle, I don't see that as the case.

Benoit bringing out Vince does not make Benoit look weak. Benoit's a wrestler, not a figurehead. He can't wrestle the title shot out of Paul Heyman. He needs to use his smarts here, and the smartest thing to do is get a bigger fish to deal with Heyman.

When bureaucrat Heyman adjusts the rules to protect Lesnar and uses paperwork to prevent Benoit from getting a shot, Benoit's only recourse is to do things white-collar. No amount of submission moves or wrestling ability would help him get that title shot.

It was already well established in the angle that Benoit coild beat Lesnar with his submission holds. He doesn't look any weaker, as a wrestler.


It's obvious why Benoit would challenge HHH.

A) as a fallback plan in case Heyman had indeed prevented him from getting a title shot and

B) because he wants a World Title and is in the position to challenge for one.

Also, by challenging HHH, it puts the ball in Lesnar's court, too. If Lesnar is so comfortable being just the WWE champion, fine, but he just had a challenger leave him to challenge the guy on the other show. If Lesnar is fine with looking inferior to HHH, he proves himself to be a paper champion. Heyman may want Benoit to leave, but Lesnar (who has been beaten by Benoit before) would then start pushing Heyman.
oldschoolhero
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Since: 2.1.02
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.27
There was such a simple way of booking this AND getting around the "BEnoit's weak" theory.

-SmackDown Following RR: Heyman opens the show, looking disturbingly gleeful. He crows a little about Brock retaining his title and whatnot, then move son to triumphantly announcing that SmackDown brought home the bacon in the Rumble itself. Intro Benoit. HE'S a little perturbed by heyman's sudden love for him. Heyman makes things clear: He just put those obstacles in Benoit's way to make the chase that much more dramatic. He ALWAYS knew Chris would pull it out-and now that he has, Paul Heyman has the main-event slot at WrestleMania! (He could even go off on a self-absorbed little tangent here, ranting about how "all those bingo-hall jokes don't seem so funny now, huh Vince?"). Benoit just smiles, then speaks again. Heyman expects him to just give him this? He's made Brock tap not once, but twice. He's made Brock look like the bitch that he is. Hell, he's beaten Brock for the title five times over, he knows it, Pual knows it, and all the fans know it. So why, in the name of all that is Holy, should Benoit bestow the blessing of the WrestleMania ME upon Heyman, the man who's made his life Hell for damn near two months? Why should he do that, especially when he's already proven what a waste of time beating Brock again would be?

Hence, he walks. Just a little exposition is all that's needed, and everyone would've saved face. All moot now, of course.



"You're A Big Hunk Of Hero Sandwich, And You Wanna Save The Girl!"

madiq
Boerewors








Since: 27.7.03
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.71
Exactly, Old School Hero...it really WAS that easy.
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I believe the point of these shows is (or was) that it was catered toward the younger crowd who can't stay up late enough for RAW. Since it's on Saturday Morning's (at least where I am), it is around the time that kids watch their cartoons and whatnot.
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