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The W - Movies & TV - Lost 6x4 - "The Substitute"
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 126 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.18
(Oops, F'd up the numbering. Can someone make that 6x4 in the title, please?)

"This is the weirdest damned funeral I've ever been to."

I'm glad they finally got around to burying Locke's corpse before the sand crabs ate his eyes and stuff. They just left Locke laying there spilled halfway out of the crate for a whole day.

I liked Ben admitting he murdered Locke but lying about murdering Jacob. He's got an aversion to being smacked around or worse. It happens so often and he's still got his injuries from the last time he got punched repeatedly in the face.

Are we to infer that with the Island sunk to the bottom of the sea in the flash-sideways, Jacob never visited any of the 815ers and touched them, thereby ruining their lives by steering them towards the Island?

Sideways John Locke is a lot better off. Peggy Bundy never left him, he got a better job as a substitute teacher thanks to his boss Hugo Reyes and Rose, and for all we know his fellow teacher Ben Linus probably won't murder him. I wonder if Arzt teaches at that same school? All Sideways Locke lacks is his faith, but isn't he better off without it? Either way, John Locke is concurrently one of the most pitiful yet admirable characters ever on television. Even though he's dead, I love these flash-sideways for letting us hang out with him again.

"Locke was always scared, even when he was pretending he wasn't." But he could hunt a mean boar when he had to.

In any reality, Hurley is consistently a good guy. And fat, but in a good way.

Sawyer sitting in his underpants getting drunk was just like that Battlestar Galactica flashback where Adama found Tigh sitting in his underwear getting drunk, except Sawyer didn't start a fire.

Smoke Monster POV is pretty cool. I liked how he took a tour of New Otherton, since the sonic fence usually kept him out of it.

I loved Richard running up to Sawyer and then running off after Smoke Locke came back from chasing the Peter Pan kid.

"Who were you talking to?"
"No one. Did you catch that kid?"
"What kid?"
"All righty then."
"See, James? We're getting along just fine."

Massive mythology reveal about Jacob looking for candidates to replace him as the Island's protector. A substitute, if you will. I didn't see Kate's name and number in chalk on the cave wall. Or maybe it's there but they just didn't point it out. I didn't see Miles either. Does Miles not matter?

Smokey Locke makes a lot of sense. His arguments seem more rational than Jacob's "do as I say, shut up and don't ask questions" approach. Are we sure he's the evil one?

(edited by John Orquiola on 16.2.10 2013)

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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.48

I think MIB being the good one is a swerve.

If I had to be on will end up being the new jacob, i'd say hurley, followed by Jack.





Mark Coale
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ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Locke saying "You can shoot me in the head, or you can get some answers" might have well been been in 3D, because it was popping right out of the screen.



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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.69
I'd guess that both Jacob and MIB are 'bad guys' in the sense they don't seem to be letting the characters control their own lives. My guess is that eventually, the Losties reject both of them and take control of their own destinies.


    Massive mythology reveal about Jacob looking for candidates to replace him as the Island's protector. A substitute, if you will. I didn't see Kate's name and number in chalk on the cave wall. Or maybe it's there but they just didn't point it out. I didn't see Miles either. Does Miles not matter?


It doesn't bode well for Kate and Miles' futures, if indeed everyone else that has been 'crossed off' is dead. Or, maybe Kate is number 108.



Kirk, crackers are a family food. Happy families. Maybe single people eat crackers, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know. It's a market we can do without.
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
The people on the cave wall are not a list of everyone on the island, it's everyone who's a candidate. Locke got crossed off because his death removes him, but Kate and Miles and others might have never been a candidate.



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Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.48
171 STRAUME



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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.19
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    The people on the cave wall are not a list of everyone on the island, it's everyone who's a candidate. Locke got crossed off because his death removes him, but Kate and Miles and others might have never been a candidate.


Ah, but Jacob did visit Kate as a child. Why would he do that if she's not a candidate? Because she'd grow up to be so pretty? (Good enough reason for me.)



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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.48
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by thecubsfan
      The people on the cave wall are not a list of everyone on the island, it's everyone who's a candidate. Locke got crossed off because his death removes him, but Kate and Miles and others might have never been a candidate.


    Ah, but Jacob did visit Kate as a child. Why would he do that if she's not a candidate? Because she'd grow up to be so pretty? (Good enough reason for me.)


maybe she did something to get crossed off the list.

murder?




Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.19
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    171 STRAUME


Confirmed. 55:37, bottom left of screen.



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CxMorgado
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Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
    Originally posted by John Orquiola


    Are we to infer that with the Island sunk to the bottom of the sea in the flash-sideways, Jacob never visited any of the 815ers and touched them, thereby ruining their lives by steering them towards the Island?

    (edited by John Orquiola on 16.2.10 2013)


I don't think so; Jacob visited Sawyer when he was 8, which would have been well before the bomb went off and changed the timeline.

    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by Mr Shh
      171 STRAUME


    Confirmed. 55:37, bottom left of screen.


I also saw 131 (I think that was the number), Littleton crossed out on there. So that would be Claire or Aaron.

In regards to this point from last week...
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Originally posted by CxMorgado
      Ethan's last name is Goodspeed, so one assumes in the alternate reality, Horace must have gotten to raise his own kid. Which would mean the island sank for a different reason than Juliet detonating the bomb.


    Not necessarily. Horace's wife presumably got on the submarine with baby Ethan (not to mention baby Miles and young Charlotte) and never returned (with no island to return to).


Seeing Ben as a perfectly pleasant teacher in the alternate reality pretty much confirms for me that the bomb didn't sink the island; young Ben was still with The Others when it went off and wouldn't have been evacuated.

(edited by CxMorgado on 17.2.10 0036)

(edited by CxMorgado on 17.2.10 0037)

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Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.48
Other interesting crossed out names I noticed on the wall...

-Littleton (Does the strikethrough indicate Claire being dead or "claimed?" (or both?) Or does it even refer to Claire?)

-Faraday

-Troup (Gary)

-Goodspeed (I was thinking this was purposely ambiguous, referring to any one of Horace, Amy, Olivia or Ethan. If on-Island Ethan changed his name to Rom, then he effectively removes himself from the List (unless Rom is on the wall as well).)

I wonder if there is another Shephard on the wall for Christian.


If a person is "claimed", presumably by Smokey, does that remove that person as a candidate? Does every person claimed by Smokey tip the scale in favor of the black stone (which the scale was when we saw it)?

With all due respect to Michael Emerson, I can now see that it was Terry O'Quinn that carried all of those great Locke-Ben scenes, because Terry is carrying everyone else now. He is just awesome.

When Locke was trying to exit the van, I was cracking up because all I could think of was Joe Swanson trying to enter and exit the A-Team van.


ETA: I've been too preoccupied thinking about the names and the Numbers, because I completely left out that NotLocke screaming "DON'T TELL ME WHAT I CAN'T DO!" may have been the greatest line of the whole series.




(edited by Mr Shh on 17.2.10 0053)


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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 1 day
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.69
Ilana said that the MIB is now stuck in his Locke form, or at least that's his only 'human' face aside from his monster form. I'm interested to learn why this is so. Is it because Jacob is now dead? Or is it because MIB had to go deep within Locke to simulate him more fully than his past apparitions (FakeLocke can touch things and eat, for instance)?

Also, if MIB can't change forms, then the ghost-Alex who talked to Ben in the Temple and the fake-Christian who led Sun and Frank through the village weren't smoke creations. So were they real spirits? Jacob posing?

    Originally posted by CxMorgado
    In regards to this point from last week...
      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
        Originally posted by CxMorgado
        Ethan's last name is Goodspeed, so one assumes in the alternate reality, Horace must have gotten to raise his own kid. Which would mean the island sank for a different reason than Juliet detonating the bomb.


      Not necessarily. Horace's wife presumably got on the submarine with baby Ethan (not to mention baby Miles and young Charlotte) and never returned (with no island to return to).


    Seeing Ben as a perfectly pleasant teacher in the alternate reality pretty much confirms for me that the bomb didn't sink the island; young Ben was still with The Others when it went off and wouldn't have been evacuated.


Remember way back when the group came across the Adam & Eve skeletons, and Jack said their clothes had about 45 years of wear-and-tear on them? I'd guess the show ends with one more time jump, back to the mid'60's (or, to be cute, 42 years in the past) and that's when the Island gets sunk and the alternate reality is created.



Kirk, crackers are a family food. Happy families. Maybe single people eat crackers, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know. It's a market we can do without.
CxMorgado
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Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

Since last post: 115 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Ilana said that the MIB is now stuck in his Locke form, or at least that's his only 'human' face aside from his monster form. I'm interested to learn why this is so. Is it because Jacob is now dead? Or is it because MIB had to go deep within Locke to simulate him more fully than his past apparitions (FakeLocke can touch things and eat, for instance)?

    Also, if MIB can't change forms, then the ghost-Alex who talked to Ben in the Temple and the fake-Christian who led Sun and Frank through the village weren't smoke creations. So were they real spirits? Jacob posing?

    .....

    Remember way back when the group came across the Adam & Eve skeletons, and Jack said their clothes had about 45 years of wear-and-tear on them? I'd guess the show ends with one more time jump, back to the mid'60's (or, to be cute, 42 years in the past) and that's when the Island gets sunk and the alternate reality is created.


Alex was DEFINITELY the smoke monster, and they hinted super strongly that Christian had been in the scene with Sun and Frank as well, when he vanished and Locke instantly showed up out of nowhere. So I'd say whatever is making Smokey stuck in Locke's form, it has to do with Jacob's death. Maybe it's the fact that he "broke the rules" (and isn't it interesting how this Locke/Smokey feud seems to mirror the Ben/Widmore feud)?

The only thing with your Adam and Eve idea is that they found the bodies in the "main" reality. So if those bodies are two of our main characters or something like that, there because of some sort of reality jump (Lindelof and Cuse said no more time jumps) that leads to the island sinking and history changing, then how could the bodies be on the "main" island? They'd have to be on the island that's at the bottom of the ocean instead.

(edited by CxMorgado on 17.2.10 0135)


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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.69

    The only thing with your Adam and Eve idea is that they found the bodies in the "main" reality. So if those bodies are two of our main characters or something like that, there because of some sort of reality jump (Lindelof and Cuse said no more time jumps) that leads to the island sinking and history changing, then how could the bodies be on the "main" island? They'd have to be on the island that's at the bottom of the ocean instead.


Adam & Eve could be people we haven't seen in the alternate reality yet --- Miles, Ilana, Frank, hell, maybe even Dogan and Lennon for all we know. Or, whomever the 'New Jacob' ends up being has the power to spin all of these characters off into another reality as a make-up for putting them through such hell in the main reality.



Kirk, crackers are a family food. Happy families. Maybe single people eat crackers, we don't know. Frankly, we don't want to know. It's a market we can do without.
EddieBurkett
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Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 2 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.45
I need to find the screenshots of that cave, both for the names but also what was inside. NotLocke continues to bring the awesome: "inside joke..."

My personal theory is that kid was Aaron. Unless it was the form of a young Jacob.

So was this supposed to explain the source of the numbers, or is this just another instance of the numbers coming into play on the island?

Off-island Ben was hysterical. Off-island Rose was sad. Off-island Locke was awesome. I'm disappointed I didn't recognize Hurley's yellow hummer sooner. If Locke insists on parking in a normal spot, that can't be the first time that's happened to him. I wonder if we'll see Helen die of her brain aneurysm in this timeline.

Helen's line about bringing John's father to the wedding was creepy... I can't wait to see how Cooper is different.

I loved that Sawyer knew right away that wasn't Locke. Depressed drunken Sawyer is awesome.








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Since: 2.1.02
From: Worcester MA

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    John Locke is concurrently one of the most pitiful yet admirable characters ever on television. Even though he's dead, I love these flash-sideways for letting us hang out with him again.


I was going to say that we might still get a chance to meet up with the real John Locke in the "main" timeline thanks to Hurley's ability to speak to the dead ... but that got me thinking, has it been established that those apparations were truly of the deceased, or was it just Jacob/MIB taking those forms and manipulating him into thinking he could see dead people?

Miles did tell Hurley that speaking to the dead doesn't "work like that," after all ...


(edited by Alessandro on 17.2.10 0914)


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Since: 5.9.08

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.41

____________________________________________________________
I'd guess that both Jacob and MIB are 'bad guys' in the sense they don't seem to be letting the characters control their own lives. My guess is that eventually, the Losties reject
both of them and take control of their own destinies.
_____________________________________________________________

The ending to the Shadow War from Babylon 5.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.19
I wonder too if there's any significance to Jacob visiting Kate and Sawyer as children, Jack, Locke, and the Kwons as adults before they crashed on the Island, and Hurley and Sayid after they'd left the Island? Probably not. I doubt we'll ever get the full story behind Jacob's reasoning and methods.



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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.17

Another thing I pondered is if there is any significance to the means that un-Locke & Sawyer used to get to Jacob's lair ... Jacob's Ladder, anyone?
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Since: 2.1.02

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.39
Interesting to see Richard go from calm cool guy to totally freaked out. I'm interested how the others rankings work. Ben was ahead of Richard, but Richard has been there forever, and then there is the Asian dude at the temple.

Walt used to seem like a pretty big deal, was his name seen on the cave wall?

Where did we leave Desmund?
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It seems fitting that there's been very little response to the finale and/or results show. This season was all about hype. I can't honestly see any of these guys or girls putting out a disc that'll sell.
Related threads: Lost 6x3 'What Kate Does' - Lost 6x1, 6x2 - "LA X, Parts 1 and 2" - LOST DEADPOOL (no spoilers) - More...
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