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The W - Movies & TV - Lost 6x16 - "What They Died For" (Page 3)
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StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 49 days
Last activity: 22 days
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.46
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    I suppose it can't really be avoided, but they're starting to get some real continuity errors.

    Error 1 - Ben visits Widmore. "Why don't you kill me" "We both know you can't do that." Well, that one's out the window.

This seems like a very obvious error. So obvious that in my opinion I expect that it will be explained in the last episode or we've just been misinterpreting what that meant. The Ben-Widmore war has been such a big part of the plot I just can't imagine they'd forget about the fact they can't kill each other. Otherwise, you're right and the writers goofed this one up.

If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say that they were always PHYSICALLY capable of killing each other, but by doing so they'd deprive themselves of whatever it is they both want (probably something to do with control over the island). Another guess would be that once Widmore killed Alex (I remember Ben saying something about Widmore breaking the rules) all bets were off and Ben then could kill Widmore.

- StingArmy
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.72
    Originally posted by StingArmy
      Originally posted by MoeGates
      I suppose it can't really be avoided, but they're starting to get some real continuity errors.

      Error 1 - Ben visits Widmore. "Why don't you kill me" "We both know you can't do that." Well, that one's out the window.

    This seems like a very obvious error. So obvious that in my opinion I expect that it will be explained in the last episode or we've just been misinterpreting what that meant. The Ben-Widmore war has been such a big part of the plot I just can't imagine they'd forget about the fact they can't kill each other. Otherwise, you're right and the writers goofed this one up.

    If I had to make an educated guess, I'd say that they were always PHYSICALLY capable of killing each other, but by doing so they'd deprive themselves of whatever it is they both want (probably something to do with control over the island). Another guess would be that once Widmore killed Alex (I remember Ben saying something about Widmore breaking the rules) all bets were off and Ben then could kill Widmore.

    - StingArmy


Yup, that's what I figured too. He wanted to hurt Widmore more by killing Penny. Since he won't get that chance now, he might as well kill him. And thus making sure Widmore cannot save his daughter anymore from whatever happens next.

Plus, he already killed Jacob, I think he's beyond caring about rules and such.

As for the numbers. Easily dismissed "they were never that important" it sucks but a fact.



Avatar Mud
Mike Zeidler
Pepperoni








Since: 27.6.02

Since last post: 102 days
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.85
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    I suppose it can't really be avoided, but they're starting to get some real continuity errors.

    Error 1 - Ben visits Widmore. "Why don't you kill me" "We both know you can't do that." Well, that one's out the window.



Perhaps Ben had tried in the past and the island wasn't done with Widmore, but now he'd served his purpose.



"Tattoos are the mullets of the aughts." - Mike Naimark
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 8 hours
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.37
    Originally posted by dMp
    As for the numbers. Easily dismissed "they were never that important" it sucks but a fact.



I wouldn't say the numbers aren't that important, but I think the difference is that the instance of the candidates remaining on the wall having the same numbers as The Numbers was more just a case of The Numbers manifesting themselves than being the source for them. The earliest reference to the numbers comes from when Hurley saw the serial number being hammered onto the hatch plating in 1977. At that point, if Jacob knew it was only going to come down to Jack, Hurley, Locke, Sayid, Sawyer, and Kwon, why did he bother bringing everyone else to the island. The Numbers have always been a sign of Island-Shenanigans at play, but they have no source. They are like a footprint of whatever forces are at play, and that force may well have been Jacob, but the Wall was just another footprint, and not the foot.

As for Widmore, between Jacob's death and Ben swearing allegiance to Smokey, the situation changed significantly since "The Shape of Things to Come". The rule may have been that Ben and Widmore both knew they would be needed for the Final Battle for the Island, and since that's happening, all bets are off.

If MiB can only be killed by someone he can't talk to, why wouldn't Jacob just start summoning deaf people? I think the phrase is getting repeated just for repetitive purposes and doesn't hold quite the meaning it may seem to.





You believe me, don't you?
Please believe what I just said...
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 11 days
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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.48
-To be clear, when Ben visits Widmore in Season 4, the dialogue goes like this (lostpedia.wikia.com):


    WIDMORE: Have you come here to kill me, Benjamin?

    [Widmore sips the whiskey.]

    BEN: We both know I can't do that.

So, one of the following is going on...

1) After Alex is killed, Ben is able to kill Widmore. During this scene, Widmore knows it, but Ben does *not*.

2) After Alex is killed, Ben is able to kill Widmore. Ben *does* know it, but plays dumb.

3) During this scene, Ben is *not* able to kill Widmore despite Alex being killed, and Ben knows it. But something happens between then and "What They Died For" that changes that. Ben is fully aware that he *could* kill Widmore as he is firing the gun.

In any scenario, Ben is more content with torturing Widmore by going after Penny. I think that is the point.

There is a fourth option...

4) In reality, the rules are meaningless.


-If the rule re: killing Smokey before he speaks to you is meant to be taken literally (but see #4 above), then Miles is the ace in the hole.


-A tangent about Widmore: While surfing last night, I somehow came across the scene from last season where Hurley and Miles are talking about Hurley's script for "The Empire Strikes Back." I wonder if Hurley had the script on his person when he flashed from '77 to 2007. Because if he left it behind in '77, and a certain Charles Widmore came across it, then I think we know how Widmore built his fortune.



You askew my mirror. I askew yours.
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 158 days
Last activity: 125 days
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.22
i would go with either:

The rules changed when Jacob died.

The rules were just something Ben and Charles were told, but they were just talk.

----

edit:

great article by bergen record where they watch this week's episode with damon's mom

http://www.northjersey.com/arts_entertainment/television/94681774_In_Hackensack__Damon_Lindelof_s_mother_considers_the__Lost__finale.html?c=y&page=1

(edited by odessasteps on 23.5.10 1615)


Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.49
Excellent thread over on the Fuselage titled Unreliable Narrators and Mismanaged Expectations (forum.thefuselage.com). No spoilers, & worth at least a quick skim over. Some squabbling, but mainly a discussion & expansion of the Original Post.
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A Punisher-loving buddy of mine who I've been trying to get to watch AD finally tuned in tonight, and then got all excited since Tom Jane did that utterly random cameo. A new AD fan is born, though from an odd beginning.
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