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The W - Movies & TV - Lost 6x15 - "Across the Sea"
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 146 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.58
I can sum up this episode in one word: midi-chloreans.

Once upon a time, Jacob and his nameless twin brother were a couple of bad child actors. They were born to a hot Spanish lady who shipwrecked on the Island and had the misfortune of running into creepy Island witch Allison Janney. Similar to how Luke and Leia were born, the hot Spanish lady popped out Jacob and named him thus, and then popped out a second baby... and then died. Only she didn't get to name the second baby, and in Revenge of the Sith the medical droid didn't say "I'm sorry" and crack Padme's skull with a rock.

Actually, I feel like Allison Janney spoke the Man in Black's name after he stabbed her and before she thanked him, but I couldn't hear it even after a couple of playbacks. I'm sure the Internets will provide it soon enough if she did.

I'm trying to think of what in this episode worked for me and I'm coming up pretty empty. A lot of stuff distracted me: like how when they became adults both Jacob and the Man in Black must have visited the Island stylists to get their modern haircuts, even when they had the more period-appropriate long hair as children. Or how the "Others" on the Island who were on the same ship as Jacob's mother spent 43 years on the Island and never, ever encountered Allison Janney or found her cave, even though she and Jacob often spied on them, usually out in the open.

I thought Allison Janney was also secretly a smoke monster, but I guess she wasn't. So how the fuck did she alone bury the wells dug to find the electromagnetic energy and then burn the "barracks" and kill all of the "Others"? I guess she really must have been a witch.

These seem like petty complaints but what tends to happen when you're not entertained by a movie or television is you start to ask questions and pulling at the seams. For the ante-penultimate episode of Lost, not being entertained - especially by an hour-long download of Island mythology and backstory - was really the last thing I expected. But now we definitively know who "Adam and Eve" really are, so that's something.

Actually, I liked that Jacob was the neglected brother and the Boy in Black was Allison Janney's favorite son, the "special" one she handpicked to be the Island protector. I liked Jacob telling her that she wanted her favorite to be the protector and now she's turning to Jacob because he's all she has left.

I also liked the Boy in Black's line to Jacob about the rules of backgammon and how Jacob can always make up his own game and make up his own rules. It would have been better for the lives of countless people in the future if Jacob was just allowed to cheat at backgammon as a boy.

So it was The Man in Black who built the wheel beneath the Island and who somehow knew via the extremely forward-thinking wise men amongst the "Others" he lived with for 30 years that he could leave the Island by turning the wheel. I wonder if the Smoke Monster ever learned from Jacob or anyone else who actually turned the wheel in all the years since that it magically transports to Tunisia? Not that the Smoke Monster would know where and what Tunisia is.

Wacky theory number one - and this is conjectured entirely by the actors' hair color (and the fact that season one Jack had the exact same haircut as the Man in Black) - even though Sayid said "It's going to be you, Jack" before he took an armful of C4 and Arzted it up, that was all a ruse and it will be Sawyer who becomes the new Jacob when it's all said and done.

Wacky theory number two - the light inside Marcellus Wallace's briefcase in Pulp Fiction is actually from that magic cave on the Island that we'd never, ever heard about before now.

(edited by John Orquiola on 12.5.10 0454)

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Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.60
Yeah, you pretty much summed it up. Second episode in a row that's left me feeling underwhelmed, this time even more so.

Not a good sign as we come down to the wire...



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SchippeWreck
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Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 4 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73
Allison Janney beats out Bai Ling for worst Lost guest appearance.



"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 33 min.
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
I could not believe they felt they need to never say Man In create a totally unnecessary mystery over the Man In Black's real name. Saving that one for season 7?

(edited by thecubsfan on 12.5.10 0045)


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Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 5 days
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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
I'm also feeling a bit underwhelmed. I would've much rather seen this episode earlier in the season, where at least the audience would've assumed that we'd learn more about Jacob/MIB/Big Mama in a future episode. But with just one normal episode left and then the finale, this seems like all we're going to get. Please don't tell me that the mother's line of "If I answer one question it will just lead to more questions, so STFU" to Claudia is going to summarize the show's attitude towards explaining its mythology.

I would've bet cash money that the last line of the episode was going to be Jacob saying, "Goodbye ______" and the MIB's name would end up being some crazy reveal.

Wouldn't it be a trip and a half if, in the alt-verse, the mother of Jack's child ends up being Allison Janney's character?

    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
    Allison Janney beats out Bai Ling for worst Lost guest appearance.


Nobody beats out Bai Ling.

(edited by Big Bad on 12.5.10 0216)
Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

Since last post: 38 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    I could not believe they felt they need to never say Man In create a totally unnecessary mystery over the Man In Black's real name. Saving that one for season 7?

    (edited by thecubsfan on 12.5.10 0045)
Unless it IS necessary. My friend's theory is that his name is

Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read
Aaron
which could certainly have interesting ramifications.

--K



Last 5 movies seen: The Rock-afire Explosion *** - Adventureland **1/2 - The 7th Victim ***1/2 - Crazy Heart ***1/2 - 44 Inch Chest **1/2
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
Also interesting --- MIB killed his 'mother' without letting her speak to him, unlike when Sayid and Richard both let MIB and Jacob, respectively, talk before going for a stabbing.
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.56
This episode was undewhelming and poorly placed in the grand scheme of things. It felt like the watching the Women's Title match in between a couple of big matches on a PPV>

Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 25 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Wacky theory number two - the light inside Marcellus Wallace's briefcase in Pulp Fiction is actually from that magic cave on the Island that we'd never, ever heard about before now.


Ha ... you totally stole my thunder ... thought the same thing.
OlFuzzyBastard
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Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 26 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.85
Also really underwhelmed with this episode. Midichlorians - that's it exactly. I did like the Adam and Eve reveal - and I totally called it way back when it first aired. Don't bother to check - I'm completely serious.

    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      Originally posted by BenoitRules4Life
      So who do you guys think the Adam and Eve skeletons are?


    I think it's pretty obvious that it's The Monster and C.J. from The West Wing.


(Although, really, that was even kinda ruined by lampshading it with the clips from Season 1. I think we could've figured that out on our own. I guess they didn't want an episode with zero cast members appearing.)
samoflange
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 402 days
Last activity: 394 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.27
Echoing others, this episode was weirdly placed. The drama of this show leading up to the final hours is diminished with a look back towards the origins of the central conflict. Now's the time to be playing out that conflict. The Richard Alpert episode ought to have been aired a bit earlier in the season and then this episode ought to have been aired sometime around when that one was aired.

The dialogue was mostly bad, especially in the beginning, but I think it was meant to be done the way it was because the story played out as an allegory. Not much wiggle room with the characters until stuff starts to go down near the end.

The origin of the Smoke Monster was cool, but it's not really an origin until we have some indication of what exactly happened. MiB drifted into the magic hole, his spirit or whatever was ripped out and either turned into or was fused with the smokey stuff, while his old flesh body is now dead. But there's that scene from an earlier episode with Jacob and MiB sitting on the beach watching the Black Rock come in, so MiB can still manifest himself as his old body seemingly at will. Why then does he need dead bodies to assume the appearance of in current times? Probably not terribly important to the grand scheme of things, but I'd still like to know if this has all been thought out or if things are complex and mysterious because the people behind the scene just like throwing stuff at the wall.

I didn't think the usage of the Season 1 footage to show the discovery of the skeletons ruined anything. I probably would have made the connection anyway, but it was really cool to see the scenes interspersed like that. It made for one of those goosebumpy moments. I hope we can see more of that technique in the next 3 hours of Lost because it's a great and satisfying way to tie things together.

Edit: Or, maybe, I just thought of this, MiB really did "die" and the Smoke Monster is a different entity. Because it was "given" MiB, it could manifest as him and behave as him in the scene with Jacob on the beach later on. Then whenever it gets another body it can manifest as that person instead. Ehh, who the hell knows?

(edited by samoflange on 12.5.10 0903)


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Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.07
just one thing is troubling me (well, one thing I want to voice)

So, at the end of the episode MIB and Mom are dead, and the smoke monster is on the loose.

But Jacob and MIB are around, talking to Richard and others. Is MIB reanimated in his body, did Richard arrive before Mom killed the old others? If so, Where was Richard during this massacre?

I have no whelming or underwhelming. I am just along for the ride. I am, so to speak (no pun intended) Lost



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Alessandro
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Worcester MA

Since last post: 114 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.57
Okay, if I'm remembering right, Jack declared way back during the original "Adam and Eve" reveal that the skeletons must have been there around 50 years based on the deterioration of their clothes ... which we can now assume is a very VERY bad guesstimate (off by a couple of centuries at least).

So, we're left with two options:

(a) the writers will simply say "Jack's not an archaeologist, he didn't know what he was talking about" and brush off his comment ... which seems like a pretty dick thing to do (less of a "red herring" and more of a "We didn't know the answer from the beginning and just made it up as we went along" type of deal)

or

(b) their original clothes completely deteriorated after a couple hundred years, and someone decided to fashion them with some new duds about 50 years before Jack and Kate discovered them ... which seems like an odd thing for someone to do (although people do a lot of crazy stuff on this island so I guess that's something the writers can fall back on)

I agree that "underwhelming" is a good word to describe this episode ... I know that people have had issues with the final season thus far, but overall I've found things to be fairly entertaining up to this point. However, now that we're so close to the endgame, the answers that are being provided are still just leading to more questions, which is starting to wear on me a tad.

Just off the top of my head - if Jacob's "mother" was the island's previous protector, then where did she come from? Was she the original "Jacob", or was there someone before her? How does she have all this knowledge about the island (and why won't she share it with Jacob/Mr. No-Name/the audience)?

How exactly did she cave in the well and kill all those people? And just what is up with that light in the cave (it's being portrayed as having more of a mystical quality than a simple electromagnetic pocket, and saying it's "the heart of the island" doesn't cut it)? How did Mr. No-Name discover that building a wheel inside of a well could get him off the island; did his dead mother tell him that, or the people he was living with (who told them, then)? What exactly did he believe was going to happen once he turned that wheel?

If Mr. No-Name knew that his fake mother had been lying to them all that time, why did he still believe her when she said that she made it so that he and Jacob couldn't hurt each other (and how did she get the power to do that, anyway)? Why did the light turn him into a pillar of black smoke? Is the Smoke Monster now a separate entity that simply assumed the form of the dead Mr. No-Name, or is that now his "soul" released from his earthly body and free to roam the island (but not leave the island)?

Lastly, where did those shipwreck survivors originally come from anyway (or is that another one of those mysteries that the writers feel isn't "worthy" of an explanation)?

My curiosity has not been satiated, people!

(edited by Alessandro on 12.5.10 0937)


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CxMorgado
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Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

Since last post: 334 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.60
Those flashbacks to season one really ticked me off. For a show that's been hitting the audience in the head with a hammer labeled "WE'RE NOT GONNA SPELL ANYTHING OUT FOR YOU, FIGURE IT OUT ON YOUR OWN OR ARE YOU TOO STUPID" to then spell out the one blatantly obvious answer in the entire episode... salt in the wound. Just straight up salt in the wound.



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SchippeWreck
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Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.73
Odd that they would spend an entire episode explaining Adam and Eve, only to make a big continuity error (lostpedia.wikia.com).
Edit: I guess the error was originally made in "The Lighthouse".

To be honest, I had completely forgotten about Jack finding the black and white pieces. In fact, almost nothing from that recycled Season 1 scene rang a bell for me last night.

(edited by SchippeWreck on 12.5.10 1128)


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odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 158 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.22

presumably, Mother was not the first Guardian of the Cave.

I've seen that this story takes place 1st century AD.

So, the people who built the statue must have been there thousands of years before.

And so on and so forth.

Someone said today "jack's a spinal surgeon, not an archaeologist."

to which I said, "say that in your best Bones McCoy voice."



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ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
They've shown us several scenes of Jacob and the Mother making those clothes on their loom....maybe the clothes acquired some of their own life-extending/healing properties. Also, wasn't Jack's original line just something like, "it takes at least 40-50 years for clothing to deteriorate this badly," so Jack wasn't dating it at 1960, he was just saying the bodies had been there for a minimum of that long.
dWs
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Since: 26.2.09
From: Humpty Doo, Australia

Since last post: 19 days
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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.18
The thing that bugged me the most was: "if this lady is the Protector of the Penultimate Pit of Lightness and Goodness on the Island, then she sure doesn't seem too tough".

Which got me thinking that being the protector of the island might grant you Smoke Monster Powers. Which might explain how the "Original Others" got slaughtered. To flesh out this theory, it would mean that MIB was the chosen one(so to speak) and actually became the new protector of the island when he was tossed into the cave. So Mama's plan to make MIB the new Protector worked, in the end. He shed his body and became the Smokey Protector.

Of course, you can apparently die when you're a Protector by some specific means. Be it a special knife or a family member...or whatever idea the writers can pull out of the air.



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Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

Since last post: 111 days
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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87
Sing this special song. It's just for you.
Coworker: I want to know how Jacob got on the island.
Me: I don't care. I want resolution for the characters we've known for years, not two dudes we met at the beginning of last season.
Coworker: You're not wondering about the origin story?
Me: No I'm more concerned with the implications and consequences of their game than how the pieces got set up.

And then this. I agree with everyone who wanted to see this episode earlier in the season, or not at all. This felt completely anime, like watching Naruto get cornered by the Akatsuki only to tune in to the next episode to see a filler episode.



"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned." The Buddha
StingArmy
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Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 48 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.46
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Also interesting --- MIB killed his 'mother' without letting her speak to him, unlike when Sayid and Richard both let MIB and Jacob, respectively, talk before going for a stabbing.

I think this is a huge point from the episode that I haven't seen anyone else here mention. I think we can also presume that the knife MiB used to kill his fake mom was the same knife he later gave Richard to kill Jacob with as well as the same knife Dogen gave to Sayid to kill fake Locke.

Two other points:

1. Has anyone else considered the possibility that MiB really has no name? I know it seems like the writers have been getting cutesy and are trying to keep it a secret for a big reveal, but for me when the real mother said she chose only one name, that told me that MiB was never given a name. I think Jacob and MiB's fake mom kept calling him things like "Brother" and "My Love" because that's the only way they ever referred to him. I don't think that's too far-fetched.

2. I'm pretty sure the child actor playing Boy Jacob is the same creepy little blonde kid we saw running around in the jungle a few episodes ago, the one that Richard couldn't see but fake Locke and Sawyer could see. And I think the fact that only Sawyer could see him is potentially a huge deal.

- StingArmy
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This season has bugged me in that they've really tried to put more "reality" into the "reality TV show". The whole Dilana drama seemed to be a massive focus, and now the poor lady tears her calf muscle.
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