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The W - Movies & TV - Lost 4-2: "Confirmed Dead"
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Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.21
Ooh, new characters! Ooh, a new group flashback! JEFF FAHEY!

I loved it. The episode opened up several new cans of worms concerning what exactly is going on on the island. I think it has to be confirmed now that time travel is definitely somehow involved --- the polar bear in Tunisia proves it. Same with spiritualism. Is Miles there to try and capture/communicate with Jacob?



“How is it that I am a good actor? What I do is I... pretend to be the person I’m portraying. You’re confused. Case in point: in Lord of the Rings, Peter Jackson comes to me and says ‘I would like you to be Gandalf the Wizard,’ and I said ‘You are aware that I am not really a wizard?’ and Peter Jackson said ‘I would like you to use your acting skills to portray a wizard for the duration of the show.’ So I said ‘Okay’ and then I said to myself ‘Mmm.. How do I do that?’ And this is what I did: I imagined that I was a wizard, and then I pretended, and acted, in that way on the stage. How did I know what to say? The words were written down for me in a script. How did I know where to stand? People told me where to stand." -- Sir Ian McKellen, Extras
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odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 127 days
Last activity: 94 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.35

Lots of info in this one.

"Charlotte Staples Lewis" ? Hmmmm.

The FF-inspired team also seems to be right up the alley of Brian Vaughan, who co-wrote last night's show.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
The Affirmation, Baby Blog
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.93
So, what's up with Walt supposedly showing back up again?

Ben can't be viewed as to big a threat if they four people that need to be "babysat" and one enforcer.

Doing a four person in one episode introduction was a new way of doing things.

I wonder what The Others are up to right now?

Didn't Ben once tell somebody (Sawyer?) that nobody was looking for them since their plane was going to be found at the bottom of the ocean?

This was one of those episodes that really wasn't doing a whole lot for me. Ben really pulled it all back together at the end. It wasn't a bad episode or anything it just didn't leave me feeling all tingly inside.



(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 8.2.08 0712)
Dexley's Midnight Jogger
Pepperoni
Moderator








Since: 10.10.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 262 days
Last activity: 176 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
Nice poke at Walt being taller with a few jokes by Sawyer. I'm not sure if time-travel is involved but Ben sure does have a knack for remembering details. The rest of the others that are alive will have to pop-up eventually, and then we'll have a whole bunch of different groups hanging around.
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#5 Posted on
-So, is Ben’s man on the boat Michael or Walt? :-) Regardless of who it is, how is Ben getting his information? Cause it sure sounded like Ben got his intel from a file. Maybe one of Ben’s guys in the real world infiltrated the operation from the very beginning. Minkowski?

-On the surface, after Ben revealed that the Freighters were after him, it kinda let the steam out of Ben’s threat that every living person will die. If I’m there, why would I be worried about these people now if all they want is Ben??

-Was Locke really going to finally kill someone by shooting Ben? Or was he just bluffing to get the info out of Ben that he knew was there? As far as Ben knows, Locke killed his own father, so he’s scared shitless when Locke tells Danielle to take Alex away.

OR was Locke threatening Ben with the same UNLOADED gun that he had last week??

-Someone with lots of spare time should put the names of those locales into an anagram engine. There’s got to be some hidden wordplay. Eleuthera, The Bahamas? C’mon!!


    Originally posted by Big Bad
    I think it has to be confirmed now that time travel is definitely somehow involved --- the polar bear in Tunisia proves it.

Other people have been saying that too, but I don't get it. Couldn't DHARMA have had a station in Tunisia? Or couldn't they have transported polar bears there many years ago? The whole point of experimenting with polar bears was to "de-territorialize" them. So a desert is just as good a location to do that as a tropical island.

-What got me going was Naomi's line to Abbadon (I'm paraphrasing): I know there were no survivors, but what if there are? What's the interpretation? Is it (1) "yes I know what we're saying to the public, but what if we're wrong?" or is it (2) a reference to time travelling - there WERE (past tense) no survivors, but what if there ARE (present tense)?
Mayhem
Scrapple








Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.77

Interesting name choice of Daniel Faraday ...

Michael Faraday (phy.hr) was a 19th century chemist and physicist best known for his magnetism & electricity experiments.

"Faraday's discovery (1845) that an intense magnetic field can rotate the plane of polarized light is known today as the Faraday effect. The phenomenon has been used to elucidate molecular structure and has yielded information about galactic magnetic fields."

jfkfc
Liverwurst








Since: 9.2.02

Since last post: 98 days
Last activity: 1 day
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Good, but too many questions.

-If the four from the copter were there to find Ben, why did the pilot, Frank, memorize the manifest? Also, why did they seemed shocked at learning that Juliet was "a native"?

-Were the flashbacks (except for Naomi's) perhaps flashforwards? Was there any reason, I wonder, why Daniel and Miles' flashes were shown after their characters were introduced, and Frank and Charlotte's were shown before?

-Why did Naomi show up with a picture of Desmond and Penelope? Wouldn't it have served her far better, if she/they were really looking for Ben, to say, "Hey, help us find this dude and we're outta here!"?

-I don't buy that Michael is Ben's "man on the boat". In the episode where he brings Juliet to The Flame, Ben spoke to someone off island who was getting/capturing footage of Juliet's sister. Ergo, he has people, or at least one person, off the island helping him out.

-Curious that the monitor that's in the picture of Ben (bp0.blogger.com) is not hooked up into anything.

-I really hope there's no time travel or different dimensions. This Vile Vortices theory (lostpedia.com) is interesting though, but I hope it doesn't play out that way.

-So the freighter was carrying two helicopters? When Naomi came to the island, didn't her copter crash into the sea?

-Why is Jack such an idiot?

Miles: "Give me the phone"
Jack: "I'll give you the phone if you tell us what you're really doing here"
Miles: "Give me the phone first, then I will tell you"
Jack: [pause]...hands him the phone....doesn't get told....dumbass

-Naomi, talking to the tall scary guy, referred to the four people as "a headcase, a ghost hunter, an anthropologist, and a drunk." Daniel, while skittish....a headcase?

-Obviously, the connection between Dharma and the freighter-people. Did they know of The Purge, and that was the reason for the gasmasks? I still don't get the connection between Ben's group and both Kelvin and Radzinsky.
Dexley's Midnight Jogger
Pepperoni
Moderator








Since: 10.10.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 262 days
Last activity: 176 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    Was Locke really going to finally kill someone by shooting Ben?


He did toss that knife into Naomi's back, which led to her death, just a bit later on.

(edited by Dexley's Midnight Jogger on 8.2.08 1848)
emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.22
Couple of moments on-island that I just loved: Miles & Daniel are tromping Jack & Kate through the jungle, when Charlotte's signal shows up. Miles starts to take off, Jack doesn't just go along. Jack: "You need to put the guns down." Miles: "Why would I do that?" "Because our friends are out in the jungle right now, holding a gun to your head, & his head. So I'm going to forget about the misunderstanding ..." "Come on, how stupid do you think..." *bang*
That reminded me so much of the scene when Jack went out into the jungle to try to do a deal to swap Ben/Henry for Walt (IIRC). Jack has prety much the same conversation with Mr Friendly, 'cept that time, Jack thought Mr. Friendly was the one bluffing.

Then, over on Team Locke, after Ben sorta-shoots Charlotte, Sawyer has Ben at gunpoint, & says, "Do you want me to do it?" Locke says, "No, it's my mess. I'll clean it up." Which made me think so much of Ben talking to Bakunin, convincing him to go down to the Looking Glass to kill Charlie. "Please help me clean up this mess I've made."

The Losties interaction with the Freighties is so much the same as the early interactions between the Others & the Losties. Locke is moving into Ben's position. And maybe the differences between Ben & Locke are why the Island is seeming to prefer Locke to than Ben.


Another moment I loved was when Hurley mentioned seeing the cabin, but in the wrong place. Lock looked downright pleased (as in, "How cool for you! You're enlightened too!"), while Ben looked totally annoyed (as in, "Oh, jeez, not another one!!")


And I loved the cow at the top of the cliff! :-) (Wasn't there also a scene (season 1, I'm sure) where Locke was similarly climbing up one of those viney cliff faces, & he wasn't sure what was at the top. I think it turned out to be Jack -- I need to go find that.)


I've got more, but I want to watch it again... :-) (I love this show!)
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 21 hours
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.21
I'm looking forward to what happens if/when Locke's group makes it to the cabin. Especially if Christian Shepherd is still hanging around...Claire will recognize him as her father, and Sawyer will recognize him as Jack's father.



“How is it that I am a good actor? What I do is I... pretend to be the person I’m portraying. You’re confused. Case in point: in Lord of the Rings, Peter Jackson comes to me and says ‘I would like you to be Gandalf the Wizard,’ and I said ‘You are aware that I am not really a wizard?’ and Peter Jackson said ‘I would like you to use your acting skills to portray a wizard for the duration of the show.’ So I said ‘Okay’ and then I said to myself ‘Mmm.. How do I do that?’ And this is what I did: I imagined that I was a wizard, and then I pretended, and acted, in that way on the stage. How did I know what to say? The words were written down for me in a script. How did I know where to stand? People told me where to stand." -- Sir Ian McKellen, Extras
wmatistic
Andouille








Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

Since last post: 49 days
Last activity: 18 hours
AIM:  
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    I'm looking forward to what happens if/when Locke's group makes it to the cabin. Especially if Christian Shepherd is still hanging around...Claire will recognize him as her father, and Sawyer will recognize him as Jack's father.


Sawyer already figured that out. And he let Jack know about it too.

And I say the show when Claire figures that out is the show she dies in. There's so little to her story anyway and they've told it all. Which would be the reason they gave for killing off Charlie.
Quezzy
Knackwurst








Since: 6.1.02
From: The Moon

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 8 hours
AIM:  
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.36
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Is Miles there to try and capture/communicate with Jacob?


Don't know, but Miles seems to be doing the ghost hunter thing for personal gain and aren't Nikki and Paolo's diamonds still around? And their ghosts are there to talk to.

    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    Didn't Ben once tell somebody (Sawyer?) that nobody was looking for them since their plane was going to be found at the bottom of the ocean?


I could be wrong but I think Naomi is the only one that said that when she parachuted in.


    Originally posted by jfkfc
    Also, why did they seemed shocked at learning that Juliet was "a native"?


Maybe their shock wasn't that Juliet was a native but that the natives and Losties are co-mingling? They must know Ben is deadly somehow (I imagine that's why the brought the gas masks) so maybe they assume the natives are all dangerous.

    Originally posted by emma
    Another moment I loved was when Hurley mentioned seeing the cabin, but in the wrong place. Lock looked downright pleased (as in, "How cool for you! You're enlightened too!"), while Ben looked totally annoyed (as in, "Oh, jeez, not another one!!")


I liked that moment too. But if Locke and Ben were both surprised that Hurley saw the cabin then the eye in the cabin can't be either one of them. So who is the eye? Maybe the cabin is when Hurley first sees Charlie for the first time (since the other times are flash forwards).

I suppose Claire would be a good choice for dying but they could always give her something to do when/if Aaron ever is ever used for anything.



Lance's Response:

THAT IS AWESOME!
lavanessa
Medisterpoelse








Since: 9.2.08

Since last post: 2444 days
Last activity: 2411 days
#13 Posted on
Hello a new chapter ¡
I thankfully can see it with only a day of delay I have a lot off questions ¡
One: because locke does not want that they rescue them? Two: because Ben always knows everything on the rest of the prominent figures? he costs, has an infiltrator in the ship ... but .. does all the time take his mole in the ship? And .. because they look for it? Three: that does in a plane of rescue a medium's species?? And ... the pilot who had to pilot the flight?? I am annihilated four: the polar bear five: the flashes will perform the past or the future ¿
All the emotion ¡

emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.22
    Originally posted by lavanessa
    Hello a new chapter ¡
    I thankfully can see it with only a day of delay I have a lot off questions ¡
    One: because locke does not want that they rescue them? Two: because Ben always knows everything on the rest of the prominent figures? he costs, has an infiltrator in the ship ... but .. does all the time take his mole in the ship? And .. because they look for it? Three: that does in a plane of rescue a medium's species?? And ... the pilot who had to pilot the flight?? I am annihilated four: the polar bear five: the flashes will perform the past or the future ¿
    All the emotion ¡


Is this a translation from a computer program? (Maybe it's translated from spanish?) Thanks for trying to do that. It would be better to post both the original & the translation. We might understand better with both versions.
    Originally posted by a translation program
    Es una traducción de un programa de ordenador? (Quizá sea traducido del espanol?) Gracias por tratar de hacer eso. Sería mejor puesto tanto el original y la traducción. Podemos entender mejor con las dos versiones.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 18 days
Last activity: 18 days
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, but maybe it's nothing and I merely missed some really obvious point. Are there two Oceanic airplanes?

The underwater footage shown at the beginning of (and throughout) the episode shows an airplane underwater. It is broken into pieces but the whole plane is there. Fuselage, tail section, everything. Of course, we know that OUR plane from the previous three seasons broke into bits and the two main sections landed absolutely nowhere near each other. We even see parts of the fuselage (I think) by itself and ON THE ISLAND when the Losties split into Jack's camp and Locke's camp.

So, uh, why the hell was there an entire plane underwater? Time travel? Flashback? Flash forward? Somebody help me out here.

- StingArmy
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 57 min.
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.35
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    So, uh, why the hell was there an entire plane underwater? Time travel? Flashback? Flash forward? Somebody help me out here.

    - StingArmy


At this point, it could be anything that you mentioned. The one theory that you omitted is the possibility that the Others have the resources to fake a plane crash. If everyone thinks Oceanic 815 is found and not recoverable, then no one will go looking for it and stumble upon its true resting place.

The time travel/parallel universe theories are getting really wonky. The polar bear in Tunisia really plays into this. I could buy DHARMA having a separate test facility in the desert, but I think we're supposed to get the jist that the bear came from the Island. Its not just that it had a DHARMA logo on its collar -- it was the Hydra station. That's probably one of the bears that got the biscuits quicker than Sawyer.

I too enjoyed the parallels between the Freighters and the Lostaways from prior seasons. If you try watching the interplay between Locke, Sawyer, and Ben having just been thrown into the mix, its alot like trying to figure out what was going on between all the Others last season when Sawyer, Kate, and Jack were prisoners. And Jack stealing a page right out of the Others playbook was classic.

Has Ben actually killed anyone other than his Dad? He must have known that shooting Locke where his kidney wasn't wouldn't be lethal. And then he shoots Charlotte, who is wearing a bulletproof vest. (Where was Naomi's? Could a vest stop a knife or treebranch?) He's had other people carry out killing on his behalf, but he's rarely the one pulling the trigger, if ever.

I can only imagine none of the Freighters make it off the island. Otherwise, wouldn't they tell Abaddon who was alive or not so he wouldn't need to consult Hurley. If he was posing as an Oceanic lawyer in the flash-forward, does that imply that the Freighters are connected to Oceanic, or is he just being duplicitous?

I wonder if there's a connection between the drunk, the headcase, and the ghost hunter all being there specifically for Jacob. The logic behind Miles is obvious, but given that Hurley saw Jacob, I wonder if you don't need to be a little bit insane for that to happen. And I wonder if drunkeness doesn't count as an altered mental state. (Remember, too, that Locke likes to use the psychotropic paste to commune with the island. Plus, wasn't his mother in the same facility as Hurley, indicating a history of mental illness in his family?)

Everything going on on the island right now is such a cluster. Its awesome.



You believe me, don't you?
Please believe what I just said...
odessasteps
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 127 days
Last activity: 94 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33

Given all the allusions by the creators to CAPRICORN ONE, most people assume the plane that was found is a work.



Mark Coale
Odessa Steps Magazine
The Affirmation, Baby Blog
pieman
As young as
he feels








Since: 11.12.01
From: China, Maine

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30


    Originally posted by Mayhem

    Interesting name choice of Daniel Faraday ...

    Michael Faraday (phy.hr) was a 19th century chemist and physicist best known for his magnetism & electricity experiments.

    "Faraday's discovery (1845) that an intense magnetic field can rotate the plane of polarized light is known today as the Faraday effect. The phenomenon has been used to elucidate molecular structure and has yielded information about galactic magnetic fields."




Ah, thus the seemingly out-of-nowhere comment Farraday made about the light in the jungle!




CRZ had to edit my profile and close my table for me before, but I did this one all by myself with Frosty's help!
emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.22
I was also interested in that little question of whether Ben has done any "hands-on" killing since the Purge. He certainly leverages or positions other people to do that dirty work, but I wonder if there's something about his connection to Jacob that prevents him from personally doing anything like that.

As a matter of fact, the Others haven't actually done much (if any) killing since the Purge. I posted over on the Fuselage about this. Our Losties, however, have been killing Others right & left.

Eddie, interesting point about Naomi, her bullet-proof vest & Locke's knife. I just have a feeling that she still isn't quite dead yet, in spite of Miles (apparently) doing the ghost whisperer thing with her. (Hey, maybe she also got bitten by one of those spiders that got Paolo & Nikki. We've got to use that somewhere eventually! :-) )

Which reminds me: If Naomi isn't quite dead, then Locke has never actually killed anybody -- on island or off. Which for our merry little band, is actually kind of unusual. (There's a nice summary page (lostpedia.com) on Lostpedia.



I'm wondering whether the Freighties' backers are the same group that (presumably) staged the fake 815. A fake 815 cuts way down on people looking for the wreckage, who might somehow end up on the island. That doesn't necessarily need to be in the same interests as the Freighties. But we don't really know much about the Freighties' real agenda, or why those individuals were chosen. Abaddon saying to Naomi, "Every member of this team was selected for a specific purpose." If they were just going to kill or kidnap Ben, this certainly isn't the right team. (The Freighties' skill set certainly is Dharma-esque though, isn't it?)

I'm pretty sure that part of the selection criteria involves them being "leverage-able". And maybe also "knowing too much". Lapidus is having major survivor guilt, & his spotting the error of the pilot's wedding ring could prompt him into becoming a conspiracy hunter. Charlotte seems to already have been on the Dharma trail -- she (somehow) heard a rumour about the polar bear anomaly, which should have been a secret, searched specifically for the Dharma logo, & knew exactly what it was when she found it. We know less about the other 2. For Daniel, maybe he's doing physics research that's getting him close to the anomaly. And maybe Miles ghost-chatted with somebody who knew too much.

"We're here for Benjamin Linus." That could actually mean all sorts of things. As could "They want me."


Fun season!
lavanessa
Medisterpoelse








Since: 9.2.08

Since last post: 2444 days
Last activity: 2411 days
#20 Posted on
Ok, la proxima vez lo pondré en castellano y la traducción del programa en inglés ;)
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