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The W - Football - Long wait for Quinn (your NFL Draft Thread) (Page 2)
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Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.84
    Originally posted by chill
    Randy Moss would be your best example.


He would be, if it weren't for Randy Moss's last few years in Oakland...



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Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.07
Unabashed Browns fan here.

HOORAY!!! As far as I am concerned, this draft could not have gone any better for the Brownies. I had heard the Thomas pick on the radio and was pleased that our line should be solidified. Later on, I went out to eat with my relatives. The bar & grill where we went (Whitey's Booze & Burgers - fantastic burgers!) had TV's all over showing the draft, so I was watching intently. When the trade was made, the place erupted with cheers. The only frustrating thing has been trying to get better non-cable local coverage of the rest of the team's picks.

Good for Detroit - CJ is the most talented player in the draft. Also, I was really surprised by the Pats putting Meriweather and Moss on the same team? I know they are the rehab center for the NFL, but this seems a bit much. If they pan out though, watch out.




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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
    Originally posted by CajunMan
      Originally posted by wmatistic
      I gotta say I'm with those who don't see Brady Quinn as ever being a great NFL QB. Bad pick I think.

      I know some people wanna bash Detroit for taking Johnson but don't. Seriously he's so amazing I don't care who is on your roster, you take him and cut someone. He made a horrific QB look decent in college and he can do the same in the NFL. People keep telling me WR isn't a big enough impact position but then I'm like, really how did Carolina do so well a couple years ago? How much did TO help Philly that first year? Not a big factor huh?






    Can't be any worse then what Cleveland has now. I would have picked Quinn or even Stanton before John Beck.


I would have waited until next year to see if the selection of QBs was better. Now they'll likely suck again, get a high pick but not want to take an actual quality QB because they just picked Quinn.

Sure he might turn out to be awesome. But if so he'll be going against pretty much everything I've seen from him.
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Remember when the Yankees won all those World Series titles thanks to a core of their own guys (Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Bernie) and a few strategically-picked free agents? And then after a couple of non-title years, they went overboard and tried to buy everyone, and ended up with a bunch of high-priced talent that didn't gel? In other news, the New England Patriots traded for Randy Moss.


While I enjoy the metaphor, my own feeling is that they drank a little bit too much of their own "we can win Super Bowls with a few great guys and a bunch of crappy ones"-Kool-aid the last couple of years, and they have finally gotten over that and decided since they have the cap room to get some PLAYAS.

And while I like the Corey Dillon-comparison, I have maybe even a better one that I don't think I've heard anyone else mention: the Patriots just gotten their own Terrell Owens circa-2004. That should be a scary thought for the rest of the league.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Whitby, Ontario, Canada

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.47
    Originally posted by RYDER FAKIN
    Ginn is a fine pick. The only people crying the blues re: Quinn were the group of Notre Dame fans at the bar having to suffer the humiltation of their golden boy relegated to the backroom in abject ignominy. A "sign of class" by the new commish, but - "watch someone trade for him - DAMN!...wait - here it is - Jacksonville HAS TO TAKE HIM!!! FUCK!!"...haw haw haw. Goodell rules

    The Fish stole John Beck, who plays really, really good. And it's not like the AFC will be able to compete with New England or Indy for the next couple of years. SD maybe, ok, Pittsburgh (F'N SHAPIRO). Anyone thinking Quinn = Dolphins hopes was nuts. They made the right move

    I'd like, in 2 or 3 years for the Dolphins to have a chance to win with Buck as a QB that scores points. Without Saban, that can happen. Anything more than 8 wins and ruining someone else's chances in week 16 / 17 will make me a happy Fish fan this year

    FLEA


As a long-time FinFan, not sure I understand the pick, but I will give this leadership the benefit of the doubt for now.

I hope Ginn turns out to be more than a PR/KR...

As for the more pressing need, they must still think that they are going to get a deal done witht he Chiefs. No way they go into training camp with the set of QB's they have now, is there?? I hope not.

A couple of years of Trent Green showing Beck the ropes would be very, very good.



(edited by haz on 30.4.07 0944)


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Since: 25.8.05
From: Michigan

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.50
The Lions drafted a WR. Hardly surprising. I think it was the right pick, although I would rather have seen them trade down. And you can have Drew Stanton, he doesn't impress me. He's not awful, but he's not great, either.

I don't know what the Dolphins were thinking. Not because they didn't draft Quinn, but because the did draft Ginn that high. I just don't think he deserved to go that high. I can think of half a dozen players I would have taken before him.

Well, let's all wait and see what happens over the next three years, then we can come back and say "I told you so!"
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Since: 9.12.01
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by R-Dub
    Well, let's all wait and see what happens over the next three years, then we can come back and say "I told you so!"
Speaking of which, anybody (that is, anybody who isn't me) bored enough to click on the draft icon and find statements to make fun of from one of the past threads?



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JoshMann
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Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by R-Dub
      Well, let's all wait and see what happens over the next three years, then we can come back and say "I told you so!"
    Speaking of which, anybody (that is, anybody who isn't me) bored enough to click on the draft icon and find statements to make fun of from one of the past threads?


This turned out to be fun....

2006

    Originally posted by Mayhem
    Being a Titans fan, I really wanted Leinart.


    Originally posted by Our distinguished co-owner Aaron
    I am shocked LenDale went that low. Holy cow. Tennessee just got a lot better today.


But on the flip side there's this....get out the fireworks beause HE CALLED IT:

    Originally posted by It's False
    ]New Orleans is definitely one of the teams to beat next season.


But getting back to reality we dial the WABAC Machine to 2005. Keeping in mind the context that the thread started with "Who's a bust before his career starts?":

    Originally posted by StegDutchie
    I'm taking Matt Jones from Arkansas.


    Originally posted by Packmanv2
    As of right now, I put my faith in the always dependable to bust Michigan WR or Penn St. RB.


    Originally posted by Crimedog
    Steal of the draft: Maurice Clarett.


Hahahahaha Clarett and STEAL.

    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    WHAT is with all this Aaron Rodgers hate? The guy is a VERY GOOD QB.


(in the interest of fairness, there's also me in the next post comparing Rogers' freefall to Big Ben and Marino's. But it's pics and not a quote. And also not so much.)

But let's dial the WABAC one more year and see...some things turned out true, some not. I'll leave it up to you to decide which is which:

    Originally posted by pieman
    As for Giants, I could bitch about it, but Manning is who we've got.


And three years later, they still do.

    Originally posted by ShemThePieman
    Matt Ware doesn't seem to be a bad pick for the Eagles


    Originally posted by geemoney
    Reggie Williams should be a solid WR for the future, though, and a good compliment to Jimmy Smith.


    Originally posted by bigtotoro
    And Matt Millen suddenly becomes a genius too.


    Originally posted by Ffej
    All I know is after I whined for 6 years about Pittsburgh never taking a Quarterback for the future they finally did and got the guy I wanted. I look foward to wearing my Ben Rothlishamburglar jersey!


    Originally posted by evilwaldo
    The big winners are the Chargers who just robbed the Giants.


    Originally posted by JJD
    As a Pac-10 fan, let me tell you that I think Steven Jackson is nothing special.






(edited by JoshMann on 30.4.07 1734)

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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
To be fair:

My quote is out of context. I think that Vince and LenDale did make the team a lot better.

More Vince than LenDale, but still.

RB who went before LenDale:

Reggie Bush. I don't need to post stats here.

Laurence Maroney

DeAngelo Williams

Joseph Addai

LenDale White

He was hurt to start the season and I expect better than Michael Pittman numbers from him over his career.

The guys with better numbers got to start more often due to injuries, to some extent. I also think that I could have rushed for 1000 yards for the Colts.

Yes, I'm defensive.


(edited by Guru Zim on 30.4.07 1642)



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Since: 9.11.03
From: Bedford, Michigan

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.31
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    Reggie Bush. I don't need to post stats here.


Is it because his stats (especially rushing and punt returning, which are kind of his job) are pretty mediocre?

155 rushes for 565 yards (3.6 yard average), 6 touchdowns

28 punt returns for 216 yard (7.7 yard average), 1 touchdown



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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
His story isn't about his stats. Anyway, I was being lazy.




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Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.83
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    His story isn't about his stats. Anyway, I was being lazy.

If he expects to be playing for the Saints for much longer he better MAKE his story about stats - especially with the kind of money he thinks he deserves. Sure, it's nice to have a speedy guy that can catch the ball pretty well out of the backfield, but you need two good running backs to be successful in the NFL these days.

After last season, I bet 90% of (intelligent) Saints fans would give up Reggie Bush before they'd give up Marques Colston.

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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by StingArmy
      Originally posted by Guru Zim
      His story isn't about his stats. Anyway, I was being lazy.

    If he expects to be playing for the Saints for much longer he better MAKE his story about stats - especially with the kind of money he thinks he deserves. Sure, it's nice to have a speedy guy that can catch the ball pretty well out of the backfield, but you need two good running backs to be successful in the NFL these days.

    After last season, I bet 90% of (intelligent) Saints fans would give up Reggie Bush before they'd give up Marques Colston.

    - StingArmy


If that's the case, then "90% of (intelligent) Saints fans" are stupid.

Yds from Scrimmage TDs
Reggie Bush 1307 8
Joseph Addai 1406 8
DeAngelo Williams 814 2
Laurence Maroney 939 7
LenDale White 304 0


If you factor in Bush's 216 punt return yards and a TD (a game-winner, IIRC) he outgained and outscored every back in the 2006 draft. Or maybe I imagined that 88-yard TD against the Bears in the playoffs.

(edited by JayJayDean on 1.5.07 1727)

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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.12
Bah, total yards are pretty useless. And return yards are more useless yet (Chris Carr of Oakland had nearly 2000 return yards last year. Ever hear of him?). The only rookie who got as many touches as Bush was Addai (who was higher in yards from scrimmage).

Reggie Bush wasn't even the best rookie RB last year. That honor goes to Maurice Jones-Drew.

Rushing
Bush-156 for 565, 6 TDs (3.6 y/r)
MJD-166 for 941, 13 TDs (5.6 y/r).

Receiving
Bush-122 passes for 748 yards and 2 TDs (6.1 y/p).
MJD-61 for 436 yards and 2 TDs (7.1 y/p).

Notice Jones-Drew had half as many passes thrown his way. Double MJD's receiving stats, and you get 122 passes for 872 yards and 4 TDs.

And Jones-Drew returned kickoffs! 31 kickoffs for 860 yards and a TD. All in all, it was a travesty that he wasn't rookie of the year.

And if it's not about the stats, then what's it about? Winning? Coming out of college, Bush was being compared to 3 NFL RBs. Marshall Faulk, Gale Sayers, and Barry Sanders. In their first five years in the NFL, these were Faulk, Sayers, and Sanders' team records.
Faulk: 32-48
Sanders: 40-40
Sayers: 29-38-3
The best RB does not win games by himself. Bush had a part, but the much bigger part, in my opinion, is due to the play of Drew Brees.
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    Bah, total yards are pretty useless. And return yards are more useless yet (Chris Carr of Oakland had nearly 2000 return yards last year. Ever hear of him?). The only rookie who got as many touches as Bush was Addai (who was higher in yards from scrimmage).


1. Chris Carr plays CB.
2. Carr's yards were mostly kickoff returns. I specifically pointed out Reggie's punt return yards, which aren't that big of a deal but are WAY less cheap than kickoff return yards.


    Reggie Bush wasn't even the best rookie RB last year. That honor goes to Maurice Jones-Drew.


Agreed. I knew I was forgetting *somebody*.


    Rushing
    Bush-156 for 565, 6 TDs (3.6 y/r)
    MJD-166 for 941, 13 TDs (5.6 y/r).

    Receiving
    Bush-122 passes for 748 yards and 2 TDs (6.1 y/p).
    MJD-61 for 436 yards and 2 TDs (7.1 y/p).

    Notice Jones-Drew had half as many passes thrown his way. Double MJD's receiving stats, and you get 122 passes for 872 yards and 4 TDs.

    And Jones-Drew returned kickoffs! 31 kickoffs for 860 yards and a TD. All in all, it was a travesty that he wasn't rookie of the year.


But you just said "ah, total yards are pretty useless. And return yards are more useless yet", so, which is it?


    And if it's not about the stats, then what's it about? Winning? Coming out of college, Bush was being compared to 3 NFL RBs. Marshall Faulk, Gale Sayers, and Barry Sanders. In their first five years in the NFL, these were Faulk, Sayers, and Sanders' team records.
    Faulk: 32-48
    Sanders: 40-40
    Sayers: 29-38-3
    The best RB does not win games by himself. Bush had a part, but the much bigger part, in my opinion, is due to the play of Drew Brees.


But the Saints made the playoffs last year, and the Jags didn't. What was your point again? I can't tell if you are arguing that Reggie Bush isn't good or Maurice Jones-Drew is better or what.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
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BOSsportsfan34
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Since: 2.1.03
From: MA

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.89
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Remember when the Yankees won all those World Series titles thanks to a core of their own guys (Jeter, Rivera, Posada, Bernie) and a few strategically-picked free agents? And then after a couple of non-title years, they went overboard and tried to buy everyone, and ended up with a bunch of high-priced talent that didn't gel? In other news, the New England Patriots traded for Randy Moss.




A few points on this...

- Baseball and Football have totally different structures (salary cap vs. no cap). If someone isn't performing at the end of their contract like they did at the start (ex...Mussina) or haven't performed at all (Pavano) they can be cut and have no impact on the cap or payroll in the NFL. In MLB, they are stuck with them unless they can find some team (sucker team) to take them.

- Moss only cost the Pats a 4th round pick. He also tore up a contract giving him $10+M each of the next 2 years for a 1 year deal worth $3M ($5M if incentives are met)

- As for predicting doom-and-gloom for the Pats after this move, remember the last time you predicted such for NE after they traded for another perceived malcontent?

    Originally posted by Big Bad
    The Patriots won't win next year, and this move guarantees it. Their whole team persona is no stars, no egos (aside from Brady, who's at least a homegrown guy). Adding Dillon to the mix is going to change all that.






(edited by BOSsportsfan34 on 2.5.07 2045)



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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.65
    Originally posted by JoshMann
    But on the flip side there's this....get out the fireworks beause HE CALLED IT:

      Originally posted by It's False
      ]New Orleans is definitely one of the teams to beat next season.



Although to be fair, I made that statement expecting Reggie Bush and Deuce McAllister to rush for a combined 2,000 yards (they ran 1,622 which is nothing to sneeze at, but still...) and Joe Horn to get about 1,000 yards to lead the receiving corps. I had no idea that Bush would have a mediocre season and I definitely didn't expect their best receiver to be a rookie from Hofstra that came out of the 7th round. Me calling this one was pure luck.

(edited by It's False on 1.5.07 2053)


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Since: 3.5.03
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    Or maybe I imagined that 88-yard TD against the Bears in the playoffs.

I *do* remember Bush catching the ball behind the entire Bears team due to blown coverage and then running practically in a straight line to the end zone. What does that prove? That Bush is faster than the entire Bears defense?

"Mediocre season" is pretty much the best way to describe it. We're talking about a guy that had 500+ yards in a single game in college. I think the Saints were expecting quite a bit out of him when they drafted him first. Instead, the biggest stories on him last year were 1) whether he was a dirty rotten cheater in college (yep!), and 2) when the hell was he going to score his first touchdown (week 10, in a loss to Pittsburgh).

- StingArmy
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.12
    Originally posted by JayJayDean
    But the Saints made the playoffs last year, and the Jags didn't. What was your point again? I can't tell if you are arguing that Reggie Bush isn't good or Maurice Jones-Drew is better or what.

First off, I said that total yards are useless (which they are), but even if you use the total yards criteria MJD is better than Bush.

As for whether Bush is bad or Jones-Drew is good, it's a little of both. Bush can't be the best RB (or even the best rookie RB) because MJD is better. MJD isn't the best RB in the league either. He had an above average year, while Bush was a below-average rusher and a below-average receiver. He churned his stats, but he gets more pub because he was the 2nd pick in the draft, and his team made the playoffs.

And as I pointed out, the best RBs in the league can't win games alone. Jacksonville had a disappointing year. Partly because they didn't figure out until too late that Leftwich wasn't healthy enough, and Garrard isn't that much better. To blame MJD (or praise Bush) for his team's troubles is ridiculous.
Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.24
    Originally posted by Mayhem
    Being a Titans fan, I really wanted Leinart.


I am putting ketchup on those words as we speak ...
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I totaly agree w/ you brick. I've watched Price play here in Buffalo since the beggining and he didnt have a productive year until 2002-03. WOW!! guess who showed up in town last year, thats right.. Drew Bledsoe.
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