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The W - Current Events & Politics - Lieberman's position (Page 2)
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spf
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Since: 2.1.02
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by Lexus
      Wait, I thought reaching across the aisle was in vogue in Washington. Partisan politics taking a backseat to resolving the issues. Wasn't it a notion discussed by both candidates earlier in the election?

      On that note, why is Lieberman's attempt to reach across the aisle that big of a deal? Did everybody assume republicans were going to reach out to democrats, and not vice versa?


    Lieberman went to the RNC convention and politely trashed Obama. He also campaigned for McCain. That isn't reaching across the aisle, that's sleeping with the enemy. That being said, Obama would like him to stay with the caucus and has suggested as much to Reid. I would wait til MN and GA are settled. If they can reach 60 with him, I say send him roses and chocolates. Even if they can't I would rather keep an eye on him and leaving him his chairmanship looks spot on for the 30 days of bipartisanship we will se in January.

    On the reaching out note, getting Karl Rove as far away from D.C. as possible would help a bunch. And I wish people would stop confusing bipartisanship with agreeing and compromising on all things. Good healthy, respectful debate is what will work best. We need solutions, not ideologies. And Obama must see successes ASAP while the bloom is still on the rose.



I don't know why everyone assumes that a man who went on prime time television and ripped the Democratic Party candidate for President is all of a sudden going to be a faithful vote for cloture, especially on issues like Iraq where he has been voting with the GOP since day one.

Screw him, let the GOP take him (he'll never win his seat again if he officially moves across the aisle). Win the recounts in AK and MN, and then when you need to get a cloture vote you pick off the low-hanging GOP fruit like Specter, Snowe, Collins, and any other GOP senators facing tough bids in 2010. And really, considering Lieberman represents CT, do you really think he is going to support filibusters against health care reform or education spending or any of the issues that don't involve Iraq? If he's such a dependable liberal as his supporters say he is, surely he won't turn against his own steadfast principles just out of pique right?

Where were all these folks demanding bipartisanship and letting the best people chair committees when the GOP had control of the Senate? Are we to assume the best people in the Senate at the time for all the chairmanships were all GOP members? They must have been, considering the outrage now at the idea that a camera-sucking fame hound with all the loyalty of a crack fiend looking for a fix might not be allowed to come back home and pretend like he never railed against the party that he so desperately wants to continue currying favor from now.

Rhetorical question...if Lieberman is so skilled, why didn't the GOP offer him a chairmanship when they held the Senate?

(edited by spf on 12.11.08 1301)


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Since: 8.10.03
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.77
spf, on a visceral level I agree. However, the Dems need to spend the next two years showing how they are different, not like, the Reps. In the past during times of crisis, we were able to work together when it counted. This is a crisis time and maybe even worse than when FDR took over.



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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    spf, on a visceral level I agree. However, the Dems need to spend the next two years showing how they are different, not like, the Reps. In the past during times of crisis, we were able to work together when it counted. This is a crisis time and maybe even worse than when FDR took over.

I agree. I would like to see Obama work with the GOP. I hope he reaches across party lines for some of his cabinet and other important posts. I just don't see Lieberman as being the person to use for this. Let the bipartisanship go to people who deserve it, people who bring something more than the constant flailing for attention that Lieberman specializes in. Use it on Chuck Hagel, use it on Dick Lugar, use it on people who really have principle, rather than people who in a fit of pique decide to thumb their nose at the entire party.

And again, Joe Lieberman is a big boy. No one is calling for his censure in the Senate. No one is saying let us never speak to him again. But Joe Lieberman knew that he was taking a chance by so publically not only supporting McCain but denigrating Obama. Any degree of trust in Lieberman to be an advocate for Obama and the Democratic Party's ideals and agenda has been broken. As a Democrat the last thing I want is to have anything in Obama's administration depending on a guy who at no point during the last few months of the campaign never felt compelled to disagree with the McCain/Palin assessment of Obama as a socialist who pals around with terrorists.

There are many people worth reaching across the aisle to. Joe Lieberman is not one of them. I'd rather see Susan Collins be given the chair of the Homeland Security committee than Lieberman if bipartisanship is such a big concern today.



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Since: 24.3.02
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.62
And the results are in.
    Originally posted by http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27782936

    Lieberman's colleagues in the Democratic caucus voted 42-13 Tuesday to approve a resolution condemning statements made by Lieberman during the campaign but allowing him to keep the Homeland Security Committee gavel. He will leave the Environment and Public Works panel, however.

A true sign of the inability of Democrats to stick to their guns, or the kind of bipartisanship that Obama has encouraged, depending on your point of view.
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.40
This is not a surprising outcome, to me at least. I think that unless there was a compelling person to put in the position, you are better off having Lieberman sulk from the chair than attack from the outside. They still need his support on other issues, and I don't know that he has done a poor job on this committee.




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Since: 8.10.03
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.47
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    This is not a surprising outcome, to me at least. I think that unless there was a compelling person to put in the position, you are better off having Lieberman sulk from the chair than attack from the outside. They still need his support on other issues, and I don't know that he has done a poor job on this committee.


And Senate Dems don't consider it that big a deal chairmanship.



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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by Guru Zim
    This is not a surprising outcome, to me at least. I think that unless there was a compelling person to put in the position, you are better off having Lieberman sulk from the chair than attack from the outside. They still need his support on other issues, and I don't know that he has done a poor job on this committee.

Why do they need his support? People keep saying that, but there is not one thing anyone can point to where the Democrats NEED his support. He needs them infinitely more than they need him. And more importantly, after this year, why should they have any faith that he will not act against their interests going forward? After all, he has made very clear that he considers a cloture-proof majority to be a bad thing in and of itself. Why should anyone assume that he will act in support of something he considers inherently dangerous to the republic? The Dems need Joe Lieberman about as much as a dog shelter needed a visit from Michael Vick.

And yes, he has done a poor job. To at no point lift a finger to investigate anything regarding Katrina, Blackwater, Haliburton, Iraq, etc. is political malfeasance. He has been carrying the water for the Bush Administration through his inaction, and should have been removed for reasons of competence.

Oh well, Obama has made his decision to keep an enemy in a position where he can do him harm. When the subpoenas start to roll out in 2009 against your administration I hope you enjoy this decision Barack.

Oh, and the DSCC can stop sending me emails. They're never getting a dime again. But I am saving up to give the max to anyone who challenges Harry Reid in a primary.

(edited by spf on 18.11.08 1552)


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Since: 8.10.03
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.47
spf, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

And the poor job he has done I would suspect is exactly what both sides want because both sides are culpable up to their necks.



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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    spf, keep your friends close and your enemies closer.

    And the poor job he has done I would suspect is exactly what both sides want because both sides are culpable up to their necks.

This is more akin to giving your enemy a knife and telling him to keep an eye on you while you sleep. I can see that line as relates to giving Clinton the SecState post. But this is keeping someone who has shown himself to be not only untrustworthy but in a position where he has shown himself to be antagonistic to your interests in a spot where he can actively work against your agenda. I might not be quite as annoyed by this if Lieberman was chairing a committee where he had been in tune with the Dems and Obama this whole time, but he has consistently been on the side of the Bush admin in matters of homeland security throughout this. Policy-wise this is no different than letting Mitch McConnell chair the committee.

Joe Lieberman shouldn't be an enemy or a friend. He should be the muttering old dude walking around DC stopping random people saying "Remember when I used to be important?" He should be floundering in a position of irrelevance as a very uncomfortable fit in a GOP caucus that would quickly lose all their admiration for him the minute he votes on non-war/homeland security related matters.



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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
I think the whole Lieberman affair has been a good reminder of how much a buddy system Congress actually is. Yes, they campaign hard against each other, say nasty things and act like they're all at war, but, in truth, these are the guys they see more than anyone else, and they probably relate a lot better to the people on the other side of the aisle than they do their own constituents. So, their old buddy Joe gets to keep his chairmanship, despite...well, everything. I understand being pragmatic and working across the aisle, I do. But chairing the Homeland Security Committee isn't just some social position, and the very real effect Lieberman could have on policy as a result of this disturbs me.



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Since: 8.10.03
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.47
    Originally posted by GodEatGod
    But chairing the Homeland Security Committee isn't just some social position, and the very real effect Lieberman could have on policy as a result of this disturbs me.


Really, last time I checked, Harry Reid called the shots in the Senate. Has he done a poor job as chair. It would seem so. But please don't oversell his position. ANd I would assume he is on a short leash.

My concern is that Lieberman is one of those that felt it was okay to trample our constitutionally guarantedd rights in the name of security.



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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by GodEatGod
      But chairing the Homeland Security Committee isn't just some social position, and the very real effect Lieberman could have on policy as a result of this disturbs me.


    Really, last time I checked, Harry Reid called the shots in the Senate. Has he done a poor job as chair. It would seem so. But please don't oversell his position. ANd I would assume he is on a short leash.

    My concern is that Lieberman is one of those that felt it was okay to trample our constitutionally guarantedd rights in the name of security.

How do you enforce that leash? Once the Organizing Resolution passes in January it takes a vote of the full Senate to reorganize chairmanships. Considering that it would be Lieberman voting with the GOP that would anger the Dems enough for them to act, why would the GOP not threaten to filibuster that decision?

This decision pretty much leaves Lieberman untouchable until 2011.



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