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The W - CRZ's World - LATE ELECTION THOUGHTS
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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.02
Even though I pretty much thought from beginning to end that Bush would win the election, by Monday I had enough doubt introduced to at least have a different logo ready if it had been him going 270. Here now is *that* W:



Oh, the whining I would have had to have read if THAT had gone up top of the page...

"I want to take just a moment or two here, Tim, and just say something about being in this chair for the last time, because it is my last time. This is not how I wanted it to work out; it has nothing to do with who won and who lost, I just thought that it'd be better if we could have a cleaner result for you tonight. But that's how this system is in this country - it's very often uneven, and what has been a real privilege for me is to be here...not just every four years, but every two years as well on congressional election nights. It's always reaffirming - because of you, because when the system goes off the tracks - it didn't go off the tracks as completely tonight as it did four years ago - you're there, you're patient and you take your time. And you have forbearance with all of us and with the politicians as well. And at the end of a night like this, what I am really struck by is that, for all of the emotion in the Kerry campaign, there are no troops in the streets in Boston, no tanks rumbling anywhere around his hotel. No one's gonna go to jail as a result of what's going on in this contest in Ohio. We'll work it out. Not everyone will be happy with the results, but, somehow, they'll find a way to deal with this country and whoever wins and that agenda for the next four years, and try to put their party back together again. And, for me, having done this for 42 years, I find it nothing less than awe-inspiring to sit here and share that information with you. And I am so grateful to you - for not just the opportunity to do it, but the graciousness with which you have accepted me into your homes, into your lives. I'll be around for a while...yet, but this is my last election night in this chair." - Tom Brokaw

"But in an American election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans. That is the greatest privilege and the most remarkable good fortune that can come to us on Earth." - John Kerry

I was glad when Bush won in 2000 because I knew I'd get to keep more of my money than with Gore, and I think time proved me right there. By default, I'm glad Bush won in 2004... for the exact same reason.

What's TRULY remarkable to me is that so many people are so worried about (or even for - puh-lease) the 51% that voted for Bush, or the 48% that voted for Kerry, while what folks SHOULD worry about is the fact that 99% of the votes were cast for EITHER of these yokels who were essentially the same damn dude. Forget the right/left bullshit... EVERYBODY'S been brainwashed.

I'm sure I had more in mind for this post a week ago but that's what procrastination (and a week of reading the garbage posted to Current Events & Politics) gets you...or me. Whatever. If anyone is REALLY dying to know anything I may have missed, I'll entertain your questions here.



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Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
Yes, I have a question. If you feel that they are "essentially the same damn dude," then why are you glad that one won over the other?

--K





Last 5 movies seen: The Nutty Professor ('63) - Unlucky Monkey - The Clearing - Tom Dowd & The Language of Music - Our Mr. Sun
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Since: 30.1.02
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
    why are you glad that one won over the other?


    Originally posted by CRZ
    I was glad when Bush won in 2000 because I knew I'd get to keep more of my money than with Gore, and I think time proved me right there. By default, I'm glad Bush won in 2004... for the exact same reason.


Any more questions?



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Since: 2.1.02
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
    Yes, I have a question. If you feel that they are "essentially the same damn dude," then why are you glad that one won over the other?

    --K




I'll second that.

And while there's certainly a grain of truth to the idea, don't you think that Kerry would be more likely to at least nudge us gently, perhaps, in the direction of socialized medicine?

Bush sucks in the spending dept., too, don't get me wrong. I guess I think that under Bush, we're drifing very slowly, but reversably, to more and more bloated government. Under Kerry, I fear not only new spending, but more new programs to spend on.

Bush teamed up with Teddy Kennedy to bring us No Child Left Behind. That's bad enough. But Kerry thought it was underfunded.



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Since: 2.1.02

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.45
    Originally posted by PalpatineW
    Bush teamed up with Teddy Kennedy to bring us No Child Left Behind. That's bad enough. But Kerry thought it was underfunded.


NCLB is under-funded. Some districts are giving back federal money rather than spend money they don't have to get in line with the law. High stakes testing, srudents with disabilities and education reform are my doctoral research areas. Success in Texas reform was due to a couple key factors:

1. increased accountability for districts, administrators and teachers

2. criterion referenced testing (mastery against standards).

3. mandates for reduced class size

4. equitable/equalized funding for all schools


NCLB only gets at Numbers 1 and 2 of th above. Without smaller class size (which we know from tonsof research increases student achievement) and adequate resources (also proven with tons of research), I doubt that the spirit of the law will ever be fulfilled.



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Since: 3.1.02

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.41
If you read the fine print of NCLB, it will effectivily federalize the public schools. I took a class for my master's degree and we spent 95% going through this thing and its going to be a disaster if it doesn't get reversed soon. One of the major problems is to have the class size, you have to hire more teachers which they can't afford to begin with. Add on the extra accountability factor and most teachers have the nerve to stick with it, burn out and just find another job with companies like Sylvan that pay not as well, but good enough to make a living. As a burned out teacher let me say that I will never teach in a classroom again where the kids and parents have the final decision, no thanks, its hard enough coming out of college to a classromm and do discipline, but then having everyone overrule left and right, it becomes pointless. I'd rather do community college, where I control the class and most of the cirriculm instead of being told to pass everyone just to keep funding up. My job is to educate children not waive them through like a cop at a crosswalk.

The Republicans do a nice job of naming things like Compassionate Conversative or No Child Left Behind, so when you go against he look like an ass. I don't know how many drinks Teddy had when he signed on for this, but I'm sure it was a lot. I also think the Dems were stupid for not actually questioning a ton of this stuff like the Republicans did with Clinton's Health Care, run ads showing the dangers of what will happen. Instead they rolled over and died. Trust me, this will be a total disaster when its all said and done or it will just go away on its on as a failed test of education reform.



"All faith reguires is giving into the possibility of hope."
whatever
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Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.35
    Originally posted by A Fan
    I took a class for my master's degree...

    As a burned out teacher...

    I'd rather do community college, where I control the class and most of the cirriculm...


Holy crap, you're a teacher?!?

On-topic, I tried the third party route in 2000 with Nader, not so on this election. I wonder if the fact that the Dems couldn't pull it out in this election will in fact lead progressives to look to other parties as sort of a "fresh start"? Mostly though, it just seems like people are ingrained into the two-party system from the get-go. Pretty much the "that's the way it's always been" syndrome. Baaaaaaaah.


(edited by whatever on 11.11.04 1754)

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"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." - George W. Bush

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Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.65
See, that's one of the thoughts that's bugging me. I don't like the Democratic Party. I think they screwed the liberals by picking Kerry. I *want* to vote for someone else, but I'm afraid in four years I'm going to be stuck with that "Lesser of two evils" pick AGAIN. It makes me mad.

-Jag



"During his term in office, George Bush has relentlessly continued to be presidentdespite the clear benefits to America his absence would bring to the lives of citizens everywhere."

Here's to another four years...
A Fan
Liverwurst








Since: 3.1.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.41
More like was a teacher, I got fired, because I just didn't care anymore after a month of being physically attacked by students, lied to be the administration about the program and angery parent calls on why I gave detention to their students when they punched me. They did fire me right before my wedding, so I was stressed out over thing, but my friends kept me sane. We moved to my wife's hometown where I got a job telemarketing, now I'm a loan officer closing $100,000 deals. Its a nice change of pace when you have a good boss, good co-workers and job that actually helps people. Now, I'll be off for a week to finally to take the wife to the Catskills for a honeymoon where we will enjoy a week away from the world expect the occasional visists to our friend's house. Which will please CRZ because I won't be posting for an entire week, so its a vaction for him too.

I am in a far better place than I was when I am teaching. And thats the problem for hiring teachers, if you have master's degree or even a B.A. in subject espically when its tied to education, its not hard to find jobs that are not teaching jobs. If you make things harder for people to get into and put a ton of pressure on them, you are going to end up with a shortage. Look, at the doctors we have, it takes a lot to be a doctor, but even if you fail out there and you have a B.A. prior to the failure someone will hire you on that alone. The job market is tough, but if you have a degree its not hard to find a job, the pay not be what you want, but its nothing to dismiss either. You need up with a shortage, so whatever plans you have are not down the toilet, because the third part of your plan required you to have a certain amount of people. No Child Left Behind will end up, being reversed as soon as it starts getting to the point where 50% of the public schools will be under Federal control.




"All faith reguires is giving into the possibility of hope."
Karlos the Jackal
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The City of Subdued Excitement

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by rinberg
    Any more questions?

Rinberg, see, you missed my whole point. If you know you'll get to keep more of your money under one guy than the other, and it makes enough of a difference for you to be "glad" about it, then how can you say they're "the same"?

(See, I thought I was being understated and elegant, but I end up just being confusing.)

--K




(edited by Karlos the Jackal on 11.11.04 1500)

Last 5 movies seen: The Nutty Professor ('63) - Unlucky Monkey - The Clearing - Tom Dowd & The Language of Music - Our Mr. Sun
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 16 hours
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.02
"And thats the problem for hiring teachers, if you have master's degree or even a B.A. in subject espically when its tied to education, its not hard to find jobs that are not teaching jobs."

Wait, really? I hope so! I have a B.A. in English and will have an M.A. in May. What exactly can you do with that besides teach, I often wonder. I don't think Meltzer is going to start paying me so I'm open to suggestions. Even from The W. But I hear journalism is a dead-end, for one.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 11.11.04 1808)
A Fan
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Since: 3.1.02

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.41
With a good English M.A. there is communication, I tried it, the pay sucks, but its a fun job when you go out on the town and you can do a ton of write offs for your expensive if you are beat reporter. Publishing companies are always looking for editors as are gaming organizations like Wizards of the Coast for people in the English field. An English masters degree will allow you to teach community college which is something that is always in need and there are a ton of tutoring organiations that need people in English for either people looking to learn English as a second English or students. Office workers are always looking for people with English backgrounds and computer skills. Being an office worker does tend to suck, but the pay and benefits usually even it out, helps to be a woman though. I'd even suggest trying to sending resumes to magazines or newspaper, people are alway looking for people with talent. You can do a lot with a degree, its just people see it as a thing for one goal when it can fit into our jobs.



"All faith reguires is giving into the possibility of hope."
DrOp
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.45
Teach for a while Justin. We need people who give a shit in our classrooms.

A Fan--I am sorry that your first teaching experience turned out like that. Statistics say that most new teachers will quit within 3 to 5 years. And the newest teachers always get the toughest kids who need the most expertise, Truly an backasswards system if ever I saw one.



ITVR: In-Jokes like 90's De La Soul--come be entertained AND confused.
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 241 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.33

    Originally posted by CRZ
    What's TRULY remarkable to me is that so many people are so worried about (or even for - puh-lease) the 51% that voted for Bush, or the 48% that voted for Kerry, while what folks SHOULD worry about is the fact that 99% of the votes were cast for EITHER of these yokels who were essentially the same damn dude. Forget the right/left bullshit... EVERYBODY'S been brainwashed.


Questions for CRZ:

1. Would either party be better off with candidates whose platforms stray much from these two? It seems that they are satisfied with getting within one state of election and taking their chances rather than forging a different trail.

2. Would a re-working of the party primary system provide better candidates? Maybe, having all primaries on the same day?

3. Can a successful third paty run happen without a local and state foundation of candidates for elections?

3a. If so, what are the chances such a 'party' would end up being a hodgepodge of unworkable alliances (i.e. Perot's Reform Party).

4. Re: "the right/left bullshit". Where can we start educating the voters to think in not just left/right directions, but up/down and other dimensions in regards to government?




"In the sky. Lord, in the sky..."
Jaguar
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Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 105 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.65
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    2. Would a re-working of the party primary system provide better candidates? Maybe, having all primaries on the same day?



This needs to be done, and soon. I could be wrong, but I would've put my money on Dean, not Kerry, if the Dems had their primary all on the same day.

-Jag



"During his term in office, George Bush has relentlessly continued to be presidentdespite the clear benefits to America his absence would bring to the lives of citizens everywhere."

Here's to another four years...
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.09
    Originally posted by Jaguar
      Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      2. Would a re-working of the party primary system provide better candidates? Maybe, having all primaries on the same day?



    This needs to be done, and soon. I could be wrong, but I would've put my money on Dean, not Kerry, if the Dems had their primary all on the same day.

    -Jag





If the Dems had their primary the first week of January, perhaps Dean would have won. But remember, he lost Iowa BEFORE the infamous scream. A national primary would actually prevent a dark-horse from emerging, as they wouldn't have near the money to run a national campaign and it would be whomever the party annoints or a billionaire who gets the nomination, as they would be the only one's able to pay for media in 50 states.
On third parties: Even if they are very successful, the best they probably can do in a Presidential race is cause no one to reach 270. And, with only a socialist from Vermont as a 3rd Party member within Congress, they would have zero chance when the race is thrown into the House of Representatives, per the Constitution. And the 2 major parties aren't going to provide 2/3 majorities in both houses and 3/4 of the states to weaken their own power. And, miracle of miracles a Libertarian or Reform party member were elected President, they would have 435 members of the House and 100 Senators as opposition, and their policies would be dead on arrival.

(edited by redsoxnation on 11.11.04 2224)


The Ottoman Empire is coming. The Ottoman Empire is coming. Hide the couches.
rinberg
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Since: 30.1.02
From: South Georgia

Since last post: 924 days
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
    Rinberg, see, you missed my whole point. If you know you'll get to keep more of your money under one guy than the other, and it makes enough of a difference for you to be "glad" about it, then how can you say they're "the same"?

    (See, I thought I was being understated and elegant, but I end up just being confusing.)
    --K
    (edited by Karlos the Jackal on 11.11.04 1500)


Sorry, Karlos. I did miss the point. I'm afraid that subtlety is lost on me sometimes. However, I would like to point out that Zed said "essentially the same", meaning that there are some differences.



The question of whether computers can think is like the question of whether submarines can swim.
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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.02
    Originally posted by Karlos the Jackal
    (See, I thought I was being understated and elegant, but I end up just being confusing.)
Hey, me too. Whaddaya know. ;-)
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    Questions for CRZ:
If I could answer those questions, I'd be running for president myself*, or extorting money from think tanks....but I am not, because I do not.

*There's also some lingering Consitutional question as to whether I'm even allowed to run for president due to my birth on foreign soil, albeit on an American AFB - also, I haven't asked my wife



CRZ
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Since: 10.12.01
From: The KZiM Tower

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.25
We can fund your campaign with our Powerball winnings. Oops, I knew we forgot to buy something at the grocery store tonight



I am made of blue sky and golden light, and I will feel this way forever.
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Since: 20.2.02
From: Columbia, MO

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.90
Zed, what's the status of the Libertarian party where you are?

I voted Libertarian for Governor of Missouri just out of protest, but the Libertarians in Missouri are slightly insane. They rave and froth at the mouth a lot during debates.

Do you have any sane candidates there?



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