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20.12.14 0208
The W - Pro Wrestling - Lashing out? (Page 2)
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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 130 days
Last activity: 130 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by CRZ

      Originally posted by TheBucsFan
      If I think the WWF product is bad, should I insult people who praise it?
    Umm, well, I'd prefer you didn't actually.


"Insult" isn't really the word I want there. I don't know what the right word would be though...I'm justb eing hypothetical anyway, don't worry.



Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 11 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
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Y!:
#22 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    If I think the WWF product is bad, should I insult people who praise it?


You can insult me, Bucs (well, right now, I think it's marginal), but better do it away from the /. CRZ's on a non-troll tear right now.



This is the greatest post in the history of all great posts.
Papercuts!
Potato korv








Since: 3.1.02
From: Springfield, Mo.

Since last post: 4523 days
Last activity: 4433 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00

    Originally posted by Fantomas
    I don't understand why people get so upset when people complain about the WWE. You say 'if you don't like it, don't watch it'. Well if you don't like complaints... don't read them.
This was not, in any way, the point *I* was trying to make. My initial post in this thread was in response to people using the "I'm a customer and my incessant bitching about the WWF is not only my God-given right, but also the ONLY way I can affect change in the WWF in product" argument. Which is why I QUOTED THE TEXT as a point of reference.

Anyway, the above-mentioned line of thinking is flawed and incorrect.

I don't care if you complain about the WWF. I don't care if you praise the WWF. You're entitled to do just that. Talk about it all day 'til you're blue in the face.

I was merely pointing out that people who think their repeated complaints about Stephanie (to make a random example) or whatever will have any influence on the WWF creative team are dead wrong and they're totally kidding themselves if they think it'll do one lick of good. And those that TRULY want to change things have one course of action they can follow.

That's it.



--Jason Baldwin
Writer of Stuff About Comic Books
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 1 day
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#24 Posted on
Quoth Papercuts "I was merely pointing out that people who think their repeated complaints about Stephanie (to make a random example) or whatever will have any influence on the WWF creative team are dead wrong and they're totally kidding themselves if they think it'll do one lick of good. And those that TRULY want to change things have one course of action they can follow."

I'm not sure how to respond to this. If WWE were like any other billion dollar company, I would say that it's just a given that they will listen and pay some heed to the complaints of their most loyal and hardcore customers. I'd point out the way Coke tanked the New Coke idea. I'd point to the many times that fan uprisings have kept shows on the air after they've been canceled by some network. I'd point to the general principle that says "keep your customers happy."

But then I also remember that we're dealing with Vince McMahon, and I have some fear that we've entered the land that logic forgot. I'm not entirely willing to concede that they would never listen to their fanbase (otherwise we'd still be having "The Blue Chipper" Rocky Maivia shoved at us) but I am somewhat doubtful. I only have one question though if that is the case. Does that kind of attitude not strike you as a not particularly bright attitude to have? Since if Papercuts is right, they're basically saying "we will put on the product our way, and if the fans don't like it, well screw them. We know better what they want to see than what they think they want to see. And if they want to leave, good riddance." Sometimes it sure seems they're actively trying to drive off some of their fanbase.



Anyone remember the joy of seeing him bash the Undertaker's motorcycle with his sledgemhammer and doing no damage and being all like, "Mjolnir will not break thine cycle? I say thee NAY!" and dumping it off the stage. - Enojado Viento says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville.
Yun
Salami








Since: 2.1.02
From: Just outside Dudleyville

Since last post: 3303 days
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#25 Posted on

    Originally posted by spf2119
    Quoth Papercuts "I was merely pointing out that people who think their repeated complaints about Stephanie (to make a random example) or whatever will have any influence on the WWF creative team are dead wrong and they're totally kidding themselves if they think it'll do one lick of good. And those that TRULY want to change things have one course of action they can follow."

    I'm not sure how to respond to this. If WWE were like any other billion dollar company, I would say that it's just a given that they will listen and pay some heed to the complaints of their most loyal and hardcore customers. I'd point out the way Coke tanked the New Coke idea. I'd point to the many times that fan uprisings have kept shows on the air after they've been canceled by some network. I'd point to the general principle that says "keep your customers happy."

    But then I also remember that we're dealing with Vince McMahon, and I have some fear that we've entered the land that logic forgot. I'm not entirely willing to concede that they would never listen to their fanbase (otherwise we'd still be having "The Blue Chipper" Rocky Maivia shoved at us) but I am somewhat doubtful. I only have one question though if that is the case. Does that kind of attitude not strike you as a not particularly bright attitude to have? Since if Papercuts is right, they're basically saying "we will put on the product our way, and if the fans don't like it, well screw them. We know better what they want to see than what they think they want to see. And if they want to leave, good riddance." Sometimes it sure seems they're actively trying to drive off some of their fanbase.



I think you're seriously overestimating the importance of the IWC in the grand scheme of things. THe IWC makes up about 5% of the WWE's audience (and that's a liberal estimate.) It's OK for the WWE to annoy 5% of their so-called-fans (I still question whether the average smark has a right to call him/herself a fan) when they're pleasing the vast majority.

And before anyone tries to use "falling ratings" to refute that argument look at the big picture: A 3.x cable rating is still a damn good rating. Even at its low point the WWF/E was still one of the most popular shows on cable... Even WCW at its lowest was still pulling in decent if unspectacular ratings and only went out of business because AOL/Time-Warner is run by a bunch of elitists who thought wrestling was too "low class."



Everything's cool when you're Yun [point] Cheol [point] Su [point]
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 130 days
Last activity: 130 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by Yun
    THe IWC makes up about 5% of the WWE's audience (and that's a liberal estimate.)


Might I ask what information you used to come to this figure?

(edited by TheBucsFan on 26.6.02 2316)


Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?"
Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"

"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!"
-Norman Smiley

"She is one of them! She's CANADIAN!"
-Stevie Ray
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 38 min.
#27 Posted on
And no using "the voices in my head" as a source.

Tribal Prophet
Debaser
Mettwurst








Since: 22.3.02

Since last post: 4513 days
Last activity: 4478 days
#28 Posted on
There are 764 registered Wieners, if my math is correct. Let's arbitrarily say that 5% of the IWC is registered here. That would mean that the IWC consists of 15,280 died in the wool smarks. Now, how many households make up a ratings point?



I don't really understand what Debaser said but I agree with him.

- Santa Sangre
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
AIM:  
#29 Posted on

    Originally posted by Yun
    I think you're seriously overestimating the importance of the IWC in the grand scheme of things. THe IWC makes up about 5% of the WWE's audience (and that's a liberal estimate.) It's OK for the WWE to annoy 5% of their so-called-fans (I still question whether the average smark has a right to call him/herself a fan) when they're pleasing the vast majority.

    And before anyone tries to use "falling ratings" to refute that argument look at the big picture: A 3.x cable rating is still a damn good rating. Even at its low point the WWF/E was still one of the most popular shows on cable... Even WCW at its lowest was still pulling in decent if unspectacular ratings and only went out of business because AOL/Time-Warner is run by a bunch of elitists who thought wrestling was too "low class."


But are they really pleasing the majority? I know you attempt to blunt the falling ratings as an argument, but the fact that the ratings have been on a general trend downward for about 2 years now seems to point to me that they are doing anything but pleasing the majority. In fact the majority of the fanbase from 1999-2000 area has left and not returned. If the only people they were annoying were the hardcore smarts that wouldn't be causing them to have attendance drops throughout the country, to the point where shows are drawing 2000-3000 people in formerly sold out 12000 seats buildings. They have annoyed far more than the workrate-obsessed net geek stereotypes. Average fans, fans who have such bizarre notions as the idea that Billy Gunn is being underpushed (which 3 people at a bar tried to convince me of last night), they no longer want to watch.

Also, even assuming you are right and 5% of the audience are hardcore Observer/Torch reader types, I think you are seriously underestimating the amount of savvy to be found in the other 95%. For a lot of fans I've talked to, even though they're not sitting here bitching about the need to elevate RVD or Booker or whomever, they express many of the same frustrations. One doesn't have to read Meltzer to notice that the same couple of guys seem to have been fighting each other forever on the top. While people may argue about who to push in their places or along with them, I've yet to speak to anyone who really is excited about HHH or Undertaker fighting on top. Don't make the mistake of assuming that the desires of the "IWC" and the rest of the fanbase need always be mutually exclusive. If that were the case, we'd all have walked away, and no one would have noticed because the arenas would still be full, the bars would still be packed, the shirts would still be everywhere on the streets, and we'd be off at an indy show muttering about how much WWE sucks. Instead somehow we're still here (muttering about how much WWE sucks), but the "marks" have moved on, uninterested in what they're putting out nowadays.



Anyone remember the joy of seeing him bash the Undertaker's motorcycle with his sledgemhammer and doing no damage and being all like, "Mjolnir will not break thine cycle? I say thee NAY!" and dumping it off the stage. - Enojado Viento says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville.
Swordsman Yen
Frankfurter








Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

Since last post: 3995 days
Last activity: 3978 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
From the desk of Swordsman Yen

    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    And no using "the voices in my head" as a source.


    Tribal Prophet



Maybe it was one of Scott Hall's surveys. :)



Who are you calling BROTHER, brother?
Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#31 Posted on
    Originally posted by AndrewGilkison
    I don't need to re-evaluate why I watch wrestling because I know why I watch wrestling. I watch it for entertainment, whether it's actual matches or storylines or whatever. If WWE and their wrestlers are not meeting those expectations, then I am not going to be afraid to say so, no matter who it might piss off.


The more I think about it, the more it becomes appearant that only a true fan, somebody with a huge compilation of nostalgia backing, could sit and watch something, be sick with it, yet go back again.

I live in the Washington D.C. Metro Area. Watching WWE right now, to some, is like being a Redskins fan. All this potential (I will admit, the Invasion angle was kinda sloppy), and no payoff. And it always seems like the 'Skins are picked to go far too...

You're a true fan who really has a severe dedication towards the WWF/WWE. It takes moxy to go out and say stuff like that.

HOWEVER:

I am a Jets fan, and as such, I feel no remorse for the torment that local area Redskins fans go through on a yearly basis. George Carlin said it best. Why get bent out of shape over something that is intended to bring joy and entertainment?

You're always going to go through the good with the bad, it's always harder to watch your team lose while standing on the sidelines than to watch from the bleachers, and lastly, you can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

I doubt that the creative minds behind WWE programming right now are not concerned with your views, Andrew. Rather, they're not concerned for everybody who shares your views along with you.

Peace

(edited by Lexus on 27.6.02 0117)


And from the pictures I've seen of CRZ, well, he looks like the kinda guy that'd try to buy a cat and get denied (the only reason I say this is because somebody who did look like CRZ tried to buy a cat from my friend Kristen, but she wouldn't give the cat to the person because we COULDN'T DETERMINE IF IT WERE MALE OR FEMALE). Well, at least I can tell that CRZ is male.
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