Smackdown right now is like the 2003 Florida Marlins. On Paper not the most talented, but the people on top, the ones you expect to deliver, do. They also tend to push very talented people on top. So you have fresh and talented people as your figureheads the entire 2 hour show seems alot more worthwhile... Raw has more people who I'm a total mark for, looking at the rosters on paper to who I personally want to give money to watch. Raw has more people I connect with. The problem while watching Raw is you have to pick out segments and say Well Segment 3 was very good and segment 6 was nice, but you don't get a feeling of a real build to something special like you do on Smackdown.
Eddie Guerrero winning the WWE title is the major ace for Smackdown now. They did something that Raw refused to do & that's make a legit honest to goodness new main eventer. A main guy you can put right there in the mix with Kurt Angle and Brock Lesner as top guys on the roster. The formula was simple the crowd was supporting him, they pushed him, and he succeeded. That's what any fan wants, we want someone we connect will get an opportunity and he's getting an honest opportunity. And Eddie's not a paper champion, he's not just given the title to keep it warm for someone to do a movie or heal a groin, he was portrayed as an equal and the story is him succeeding... Raw has had guys who were supported by the crowd and got a push to the title. But the push has always been and still is full of strings attached. Booked with failure already in mind and never allowing them to go all out with it therefore failing.
You have to look at the top guys too, Kurt Angle is just so talented all around in-ring & personality wise. Plus he knows how to keep himself fresh and interesting, I think that's the biggest challenge. This recent turn that had a great wrestling build for 2 months was something special... Plus you don't have to make a big "turn" to stay fresh. Lesner is a good example, I'm hardly the prez of his fan club, but I was really impressed how he tweaked his character from "Here comes the pain" guy to pampered jock. It's very slight but enough to catch my eye, and right now he's more interested without the title then with it.
Hate to mention him by name, but why HHH can't figure that out. They are fascinated with HHH powerplay champion which is so repetitive, which has been done since 99. Not to sound like just a Anti-H rant, I even suggest him not winning the World title in Dec as his Evolution mates do. With HHH being bitter and not very supportive of his teammates win because he didn't get his victory. That would add an interesting dimension to the HHH character, that would add an interesting twist to this Evolution stable... But they took the easy way out, they took the predictable way out by making the super-stable have all the title in one night and go around saying "Look at us, we all have good" like there any imagination in that. For HHH who claims to be such a student of the game, he's really not very good in keeping himself fresh.
The administrations at Raw is really wearing thin, I was a supporter of Austin when he started the dueling GM's with Bischoff saying "Hey the crowd loves him and pops for him, and he's a star". But this Sheriff thing is adding nothing to the show but cheap pops for him and it actually seems to take interest from others. Case in point is the end of this weeks Raw, Benoit is knocked out by a superkick totally in dream land. HBK just got knocked out by the champion... Out comes Austin making everyone forget about the World title challengers and focus on him. As without fear gets in the champions face, flips him off, tells HHH off, then drives off as HHH is all flustered and screaming "Damn you Austin Damn You!" as you sit down and think. What exactly is the money feud they are building for Wrestlemania. Is it HHH vs. Benoit? Is it HHH vs. HBK or is it HHH vs. Austin.
Smackdown has it's problems, their mid-card is kind of boring but the people they push to the top that count and really matter to the program is just so much more entertaining then on Raw where people are pushed and de-pushed for no apparent reason and a punch of men who are not even on the full time roster getting pushed as main attractions with major TV time.
smark/net attack wienerville advisory is lowered to BLUE alert - Guarded (Due to Eddie being WWE champ and facing Angle at WM, Benoit winning the Rumble in World title match in mania BUT Kliq members is still a threat - Vince you can save us from these threats) 2/17
Honors for Smartest thing ever written, 5th Horseman "When Victoria, Trish, Molly, and Lilian were in the ring.. I commented to my friends that all of the 4 ladies in the ring were hotter than the all 4 that are fighting over who is the hottest in the WWE"
Im sick of people saying how RAW dropped the ball by not putting the belt on RVD, or Booker T. They then go on to say that Smackdown took the chance with Gurrero and made him a star. In my opinion RVD and Booker T are no where near Gurrero's level. Hell, I dont think Benoit is on Gurrero level either.
RVD is a walking spot-fest, who can be sloppy and who is very one dimensional. His mic skills leave a lot to be desired. Booker T is good on the mic but decent in the ring. Benoit is great in the ring but once again, he lacks the charisma or mic work of Gurrero. Gurrero is not only a great wrestler but is also a great actor and talker. But I also think before we praise him as a great world champ, we should see how his run goes. He has only had the title for a week. And speaking of building people up, I think RAW is doing a good job with Orton.
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Both shows have their strengths and their weaknesses, their good stars and bad ones, good matches and bad ones. It just depends on the booking of a particular period. Since about spring 2003, I have preferred Raw more often than Smackdown, but Smackdown's had it moments and its gotten almost back on track in recent weeks. Shame that its been losing its best talent since the Big Slow's signing slowly transformed the formely technically crisp ME scene into a Hoss-a-than.
And please don't lump HBK's promo quality with HHH's, as they're in no way similar.
I'd say the mounting number of injuries and the guys in charge worrying about their workers' health was more responsible for the slowing-up of SD's ME scene than one man's inclusion. And hey, it's been said before and I'll reiterate it-Big Show OWNS ALL YOUR ASSES.
Back on topic, I'm in general agreement that, s far as what I like to watch, Smackdown has been the superior brand. HOWEVER, when Smackdown turns sour for a week or two, boy does it turn. On one hand we could be treated to a show like this week's-great storytelling, good wrestling, a fucking AWESOME heel turn. On the other, you could get-and there have been shows like this in the past-A-Train, Matt Morgan, Hardcore Holly, Billy Gunn and Vince McMahon ALL getting put over and/or significant ringtime.
Raw on the other hand, is certainly a hit-and-miss prospect. When it fires on all cylinders it's just as enjoyable as Smackdown's best-albeit for different reasons-but it does hit that peak much less often than its counterpart. Since I'm loving both shows and almost every angle going into WrestleMania right now, however, its all a moot point.
"You're A Big Hunk Of Hero Sandwich, And You Wanna Save The Girl!"
Originally posted by T.i.O a B.m.FIm sick of people saying how RAW dropped the ball by not putting the belt on RVD, or Booker T. They then go on to say that Smackdown took the chance with Gurrero and made him a star. In my opinion RVD and Booker T are no where near Gurrero's level. Hell, I dont think Benoit is on Gurrero level either.
But, see, I think the reason why you - and many other people - think about RVD & Booker T that way is because the writing on RAW is so poor. RVD and Booker T may just be good actors, but they don't get the opportunity to showcase that in an appropriate fashion. They are not written properly, IMO. And, when given poor material by a writing staff that holds their hand, they will put out poor performances.
Is it the talent's fault or the writer's fault? Usually both.
Does RAW have more surprises? Sure, it's live and that's what live shows do. However, the storylines are very uninspiring and boring. HHH vs HBK is an example that I keep coming to, but it's true. This feud has been going on for too long and has resulted in too many PPVs, which shifts the entire focus onto two boring characters. HHH is a great heel, but a great heel against a tired babyface challenger isn't very entertaining.
Everything else is pretty much out of the ring storylines, like Austin-Bishoff and Jericho-Trish. Entertaining? To some, but there's no real payoff for the GM angle, so if there is no real end goal, how entertaining can they really be? That isn't to say that all of the angles don't have decent blowoff matches, like Foley-Orton and Jericho-Christian, but those aren't top-level programs.
RAW has no real pacing of its angles. It's just a bunch of random stuff every week. SMACKDOWN! can be the same way, but yet, as we saw with Benoit-Brock and Eddy-Chavo, they actually do pace out angles that have a payoff down the road and then deliver. That, to me, makes all of the difference.
The fact that HHH-Benoit doesn't look like it will have a real payoff, since HBK once again has to suck attention away from the original focus (Big stars vs Underdogs), is yet another reason why I can't see RAW as being better than SMACKDOWN! It's all about the payoff. Storylines need to have endings and RAW's have none.
Time will tell with Eddy's reign and it's very possible that he is a belt warmer to Kurt Angle. But, the very fact that a 5'9" cruiserweight holds the World Title, and actually got over without much special help, and was put over Brock Lesnar mostly clean (Brock brought the belt into the ring) speaks volumes. He's in the WM title match and that means a lot right there. He could turn out to be another transitional guy like Jericho, but considering the depth of the roster on SMACKDOWN!, Eddy will still figure into the title picture somehow. Brock vs Angle has been done almost as much as HHH vs HBK, so I think they will be smart enough to keep fresh main events in 2004.
RAW's roster didn't seem very deep in 1998, yet it still rebounded and defeated WCW.
I have to agree.Smackdown's quality of wrestling is far superior to Raw.While Raw gets the better storylines and different angles,most of the wrestling talent goes to Smackdown.And Paul Heyman is the king as GM.
Actually...the wrestling talent has been slowly slipping away from Smackdown lately. Still, with the abilities of Heyman and Co. (Oh, no doubt, his fingerprints are ALL OVER the booking of the show), I am sure that they can remain the all-around better show.
And I WISH that either Booker T or RVD could go to Smackdown, because for all their limitations, good booking would have them looking like major players. Big Show, Rhyno, and Chavo have limitations too, and with sustained and timely pushes, they too have been/could be go-to guys on the roster.
Unfortunately, I think the poster who mentioned the HHH-HBK stagnation hit it right on the head. For all their talent on RAW, there is an upwards limit on how far any wrestler will go, unless Explicitly Authorized by Management. That gives every fan less incentive to invest emotionally in any wrestler, because ultimately it isn't really up to them whether the wrestlers are pushed adequately. Cases in point: Scott Steiner, Lance Storm, Matt Hardy, Hurricane, Booker T, and yes, RVD. Have fans been CLAMOURING for HBK to unseat Triple H for his title, seeing as he already did it once, or were they content to see them feud, but RABID for new blood on top. I mean, Fans desperately wanted to see Kane-Goldberg, but they didn't get it. Fans wanted an end to La Resistance a long time ago, they wanted them to shit or get off the pot with Jindrak and Cade, and they wanted Jacki Gayda to stay away from the ring and take her top off. (Well they got that one.)
The difference to me between RAW and SMACKDOWN is that where you see predictable, I see SMACKDOWN actually capitalizing on logic and what fans want. Sure, Vince has his megalomania and his pet projects (and truth be told, both APA and Billy Gunn *would* be a better fit for RAW) but overall, Smackdown does more with less because they move straightforwardly. RAW does less with more, because sometimes the twists and turns are just WRONG CHOICES. Oddly enough, lately, the saving graces for RAW are typically found in their RING WORK. How weird is that?
You are damn right there. Having the Book and RVD on SmackDown would be great as they are struggling for faces right now. With Benoit on Raw and Angle turned heel,the only major faces are Eddie,Cena and Mysterio. With heels like Lesnar, Angle, Show, WGTT and the FBI having Heyman sign those two would be a stroke of genius
The main reason I find Smackdown to be light years better than RAW:
I look at the show, and it honestly looks like the SD wrestlers are having a better time in the ring than their Raw conterparts. Over the past two weeks, we've had an incredible feud with Eddie Guerrero and Brock Lesnar, which saw some really funny vignettes (Brock's Mariachi Band) and some powerful interviews (almost anything Eddie put forth then). THose two obviously fed off each other well, and it showed.
THEN, we have Kurt Angle and John Cena. I busted a gut watching those two go after each other, egging each other on during their interview at the start of Smackdown.
Another minor example was the work between Scotty 2 Hotty, Rikishi and the APA, and the frustration the WGTT showed afterwards. You can tell these guys get along well backstage with how well it went off.
Raw has it's moments, that's for sure. If work allows me to catch both Raw and Smackdown, I'll catch them both; but I'd be moreso interested in catching Smackdown.
SD2: April, Year 3; what's the point to the Career mode, anyhow? FF7: Disc 1; 4h into game; en route to the next reactor FF8: Disc 2; 15h into game; Squall, Rinoa, Irvine vs. Master NORG. FF9: Disc 1; 6h into game; Hunting down Dagger after she drugged me!
"Another minor example was the work between Scotty 2 Hotty, Rikishi and the APA, and the frustration the WGTT showed afterwards. You can tell these guys get along well backstage with how well it went off."
Was this segment missing from SmackDown anywhere in the States? We didn't get it over here.
"You're A Big Hunk Of Hero Sandwich, And You Wanna Save The Girl!"
Originally posted by T.i.O a B.m.FI think the writing is MUCH better on RAW. Everything seems to flow much more smoothly and you NEVER know what the hell is gonna happen.
Ah, the "anything can happen" argument. When was the last time "anything van happen" actually happened? Maybe Benoit showing up on Raw, or Foley's return, but if you kept up w/ any of the rumors, you knew to expect that. "Anything can happen" rarely happens.
Smackdown vs. RAW is turning into wrestling vs. sports entertainment. In my opinion wrestling died when it was realized that sports entertainment is what brings in the highest ratings.
IIRC, the "Smackdown 6" era SD's were killing Raw in the ratings. Even now, SD still outdraws Raw ratings-wise (what's the formula, 1.25 x SD rating = Raw equivalent?).
And speaking of building people up, I think RAW is doing a good job with Orton.
And I'm sure people will care about Orton, sooner or later.
Originally posted by T.i.O a B.m.FIm sick of people saying how RAW dropped the ball by not putting the belt on RVD, or Booker T. They then go on to say that Smackdown took the chance with Gurrero and made him a star. In my opinion RVD and Booker T are no where near Gurrero's level.
But I guarantee you that if RVD and Booker were on SmackDown and Eddie was on RAW, Rob and Book would be in the upper-midcard/main-event level whereas Eddie Guerrero would be somewhere in the "Triple H's Personal Bitch" level. The same could probably be said for John Cena. The same could be said for MANY others, as well. The difference is that SmackDown handles young stars better than RAW.
NOAH DESTINY 7/18/05 Tokyo Dome This will be the biggest wrestling event of the year and the matches should be incredible. The card is now finally coming together since the last thread we had on it (at the end of April)