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3.9.14 0212
The W - Pro Wrestling - Kurt Angle wins IWGP title from Brock Lesnar!
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Tyler Durden
Landjager








Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.94
From gerweck.net:


6/29 IGF Results from Tokyo

- Kurt Angle d. Brock Lesnar



From tnawrestling.com:

On Friday in Tokyo, Japan, TNA Wrestling World Heavyweight Champion Kurt Angle defeated longtime rival Brock Lesnar for the IWGP Championship in a match for Antonio Inokis new IGF wrestling promotion.

TNA officials spoke by phone with Angle following the match, who had this to say:

The IWGP Championship is the second title to add to my growing collection, Angle said. On July 15 at Victory Road, Im going to add a third title the TNA World Tag Team Championship. Then after Victory Road, there will only be one more title for me to win and thats to take the X Championship from that fat slob Samoa Joe!

.......

Kurt Angle will be returning to the United States with both his TNA World Heavyweight Championship as well as the IWGP Championship.



Photo (Kurt Angle with two belts):

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z53/MGHour/Wrestling%20Images/TNA/Kurt%20Angle/Angle1.jpg


Photo (Kurt Angle and Brock Lesnar):

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z53/MGHour/Wrestling%20Images/TNA/Kurt%20Angle/Angle2.jpg



And heres the match:

Part 1 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y75oD9PlwWU

Part 2 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj-NeKlbAMg



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griff
Head cheese








Since: 26.2.04
From: Manchester, England

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.11
It's great seeing these two hooking it up again.
dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 3 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.66
Freaky looking tatoo on the front of Brock.
With the red trunks, it looks like he could do an angle where he is the son of Bob Backlund.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 11 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.06
I'm impressed with the camera work in these clips. It gives the match credibility.

It's a short match unfortunately, but that's in keeping with Angle's reduced load after leaving the WWE. Still, considering how many of us thought he was living on borrowed time when he walked away, he looks in good shape. It's a shame TNA has done so little with him.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker

My blog will amuse. (heygregory.blogspot.com)
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 2 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.88
I just want to clear this up, lest there be any confusion to people reading that aren't familiar with the situation:

Kurt Angle is NOT the IWGP Heavyweight Champion.

Without getting too much into it, Lesnar and New Japan had a big falling out while he still held the title (Lesnar claims mistreatment financially and otherwise; New Japan and others claim he straight-up refused to put over Tanahashi to end Lesnar's positively disastrous reign). New Japan officially stripped him of the title and it ended up on Tanahashi, however Lesnar kept the physical title he had and outright refused to give it back.

In the weeks leading up to the IGF show, Inoki hyped the match as for the "third belt", which is a vague way of saying "we have the REAL IWGP belt and the one that the organization who would decide such things has in their possession is a fraud because Lesnar never lost it." It's similar in a way to the situation back in '92 when Flair showed up in the WWF with the physical NWA World Heavyweight Championship and proclaimed himself to be the "real world's champion."

So yeah. Kurt won the "title" from a guy who was officially stripped of it about two years ago(?) and hasn't defended it since (though with Inoki and his general whackiness I'm sure he'll at some point make the claim that Brock's MMA match against Min Soo Kim was an IWGP title defense).

Good for Kurt, I guess, but Yuji Nagata is the IWGP Heavyweight Champion.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 2.7.07 1209)
canis582
Mettwurst








Since: 5.1.04
From: Reading, Pa

Since last post: 2482 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Its Inoki's title anyway, so he can do what he wants with it. If he says Lesnar is the IWGP champ, then he is to me.



"I don't like to even admit doing jobs." - Stan Hansen shoot interview
ekedolphin
Scrapple








Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

Since last post: 76 days
Last activity: 21 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
Even more than three years after they last faced each other at (I believe) Survivor Series 2003, Angle and Lesnar are still two of the greatest wrestlers in the world.



"Finally, finally, my God finally, Chris Benoit is the Heavyweight Champion of this World!"
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Remembering Chris Benoit (1967-2007) and Eddie Guerrero (1967-2005)

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Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 1 day
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.98
Thanks Deputy, that clears that up.

Still amazing, to me anyway, to see two major American headliners having matches in Japan. I can't remember the last time happened, although hopefully Dep. Marshall or some other Japan buffs can clarify it. I know tons about the American wrestling scene but I'm a little ashamed of my ignorance re: Japan.



Was It Something I Said?
griff
Head cheese








Since: 26.2.04
From: Manchester, England

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.11
I know tons about the American wrestling scene but I'm a little ashamed of my ignorance re: Japan.


Ditto. I've tried several times to immerse myself in Japanese pro wrestling but I tie my ignorance and inability to get into the scene down to two main reasons:

1) As much as I don't think I need commentary in a match, I do miss it when it's not there, or not understandable to me (curse my Western ears!)

2) Japanese wrestler names are, in general, much harder to relate to unless you speak the language. By this I mean they are harder to remember off the top of your head as they don't roll of the tongue for people with English as a first language. This is made more difficult for the casual Westerner by the fact that the Japanese have a different word/symbol/alphabet system than in the Western world.

Still, the rewards for fans who can break through these barriers, are dozens of four to five star matches every year.

(edited by griff on 3.7.07 1030)
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 2 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.88
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    Thanks Deputy, that clears that up.

    Still amazing, to me anyway, to see two major American headliners having matches in Japan. I can't remember the last time happened, although hopefully Dep. Marshall or some other Japan buffs can clarify it. I know tons about the American wrestling scene but I'm a little ashamed of my ignorance re: Japan.


I just got back into the puro stuff in January. Unless I'm mistaken, the last time two Americans specifically headlined a major show (or one that's supposed to be perceived as such) in Japan were both - not surprising - during Brock Lesnar's brief reign as IWGP Champion (in defenses against Akebono and Giant Bernard respectively). However, neither of those were anywhere near the drawing power of an Angle/Lesnar match, nor did they have as much buzz around them here or in Japan.

I'm hard pressed to think of the last time a match pitting American against American headlined at this level. Part of the reason is that is in recent years, pro wrestling in Japan has fallen a bit on the wayside and seems only now to be recovering from the dramatic fall years ago...and even then, it probably won't ever be back to the level it once was. Some blame the fall of the wrestling industry in Japan on the rise of MMA in the late 90s/early 00s. I personally tend to agree with them, though it's a bit more complicated in that pro wrestling didn't take a major hit in popularity until the major companies allowed top guys like Yuji Nagata and Nobuhiko Takada to do legit MMA matches where subsequently they were annihilated and had their (along with their respective promotion's) credibility destroyed.

Sorry, got on a tangent. Wait, where was I? Oh yeah, big name Americans. Basically, promotions can't afford them anymore. The only gaijin on the last All-Japan tour was Vampiro, and I'm not sure if he even made it through the entire tour.

New Japan prominently features gaijin on a regular basis, and even then it's more or less limited to Tomko, Bernard, and Fergal Devitt (when his body isn't falling apart at way too young of an age). Aside from Angle doing the one show for New Japan where he tagged with Nagata (the idea was that eventually they'd do Angle/Nagata but that appears to be not happening and in hindsight it was dumb of them to waste the opportunity on a tag), none of those guys are at the level of guys they used to book for their shows years ago. Same deal with NOAH - they have a few Americans and other gaijin here and there, but it's guys at the level (in terms of price and notoriety - not saying anything about their ring work) of Bryan Danielson, Bisonn Smith, and Nigel McGuinness - and that's the upper echelon in terms of gaijins.

    Originally posted by canis582
    Its Inoki's title anyway, so he can do what he wants with it. If he says Lesnar is the IWGP champ, then he is to me.

If you consider the IWGP Heavyweight Championship to be Inoki's belt, well then I guess so. But regardless of the circumstances, that's been New Japan's championship for a little over 20 years now and Inoki has severed ties with the company (nevermind the fact that he hasn't held the title in a LONG long time).
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
    The only gaijin on the last All-Japan tour was Vampiro, and I'm not sure if he even made it through the entire tour.
Aren't they still using D'Lo Brown & Buchanan? (consults web) Oh, they're not, I guess. Sorry. But I thought I saw their names recently...just can't remember where.



I AM CRZ
Skarecrow
Polska kielbasa








Since: 5.5.05
From: Maryland

Since last post: 2109 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.46
How many matches has Lesnar had in the recent past? Hasn't he been doing the MMA thing?

If so, he isn't showing that much ring rust. pretty impressive in that regard. I've certainly seen him have better matches in the past, and definatly better matches with angle in the past... but it really makes me wish he was still in the current WWE product. I might watch more often. I know the sticking point was money (Wasn't it?). Take some of cena's millions and give it to lesnar. I can't believe that cena is really drawing the money they're paying him.





Evil Inside =X=
Deputy Marshall
Liverwurst








Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 2 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.88
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
      The only gaijin on the last All-Japan tour was Vampiro, and I'm not sure if he even made it through the entire tour.
    Aren't they still using D'Lo Brown & Buchanan? (consults web) Oh, they're not, I guess. Sorry. But I thought I saw their names recently...just can't remember where.


No, you're right. All-Japan WAS using D-Lo and Bull right up until the beginning of the year. You're right in that they're somewhere else now: they've popped up in NOAH to be with their bestest EEEEVIL bud Taka, reuniting the old RO&D faction from AJPW.

    Originally posted by Skarecrow
    If so, he isn't showing that much ring rust. pretty impressive in that regard. I've certainly seen him have better matches in the past, and definatly better matches with angle in the past... but it really makes me wish he was still in the current WWE product. I might watch more often. I know the sticking point was money (Wasn't it?). Take some of cena's millions and give it to lesnar. I can't believe that cena is really drawing the money they're paying him.

Well, Lesnar's natural athleticism and learning curve is absolutely freakish. The problem was and wasn't money - what it all comes down to, in the end, is that Lesnar tends to get involved in stuff, excel in it or come close to breaking in, and then loses interest. That was sort of the issue with WWE (I'm sure money was a factor as well) and I suspect is the reason why he didn't try a second time to pursue his dream of being in the NFL (he JUST missed the Vikings' cut and was praised for his great athleticism and for being a quick learner but then didn't even entertain the idea of trying out again the next season). His lack of interest was pretty apparent in New Japan during his IWGP title reign, as he more or less half-assed it and worked with absolutely no passion. Which, the Japanese crowd being the Japanese crowd, they totally picked up on.

It's sort of the reason I'm still skeptical of him becoming this MMA monster that everyone expects him to become. He's got all the tools necessary to be one of the best (if not THE best) heavyweights in the world at some point down the line, but that's dependent on whether or not it holds his interest.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 11 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.04

      Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
      That was sort of the issue with WWE (I'm sure money was a factor as well)


Wasn't it also a matter of his position in the company? He was as established as you could get before losing to Eddy, and I think I remember the fans knew he was out the door during his WM match with Goldberg. He had no where else to go but down after feuding with Angle, Rock, and Show for the belt. Yes, ego was a part of this, but the WWE gave him the push of all pushes, and he credibly couldn't be a midcarder fighting with Hardys, Ortons, or Edges. Unfortunately, not one had a good idea to fix the problem, and he wasn't going to fight Triple for the belt.

The WWE has this problem now with Umaga. Unless they drop Cena or Lashley to the IC level to face him (again), they have no one who can give him an even bout. Snitsky? No, please no. Hypothetically, Umaga is the champ for a long time. Lesnar would be in the same boat on SD, carrying the US belt until the draft provides him another interesting feud for the big belt.

I want the guy to come back to the WWE ultimately. I think he belongs there in rasslin', but he could be the next Sapp if he plays his card right. I know nothing -- nothing, I tell you -- about MMA/Pride/K1/UFC, and even I know that Sapp is a monster celeb in Japan. That's not a bad niche to follow. But if Lesnar can't manage to successfully compete, what else can he do? Go to another fed? Box? Try the NFL? The Europe League is gone, and he could have worked there for a few years before moving to the NFL proper.




(edited by Matt Tracker on 3.7.07 1301)


"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker

My blog will amuse. (heygregory.blogspot.com)
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 54 min.
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.62
    Originally posted by Skarecrow
    I know the sticking point was money (Wasn't it?).


I believe it was almost entirely the schedule. In Brock's negotiations in 2005, if they were in good faith and not just a strategy to contradict WWE's no-compete clause, he was asking for a reduced number of dates per month, aka the Undertaker schedule (although I think Undertaker went on the road full-time this year as they asked him to as part of committing to his world title run).

Probably bigger sticking points are heat that will never go away based on the nature of how he left -- though this is never a true sticking point with Vince McMahon unless you're Jeff Jarrett -- and, probably most importantly, Brock just doesn't seem to like or want the life of a pro wrestler.


    I can't believe that cena is really drawing the money they're paying him.




He probably is bringing in much more, just based on the ratio of how much money wrestlers make vs. the amount of revenue WWE generates. But even if he's not, while I'm sure he has a big downside guarantee, a lot of the money he's making, he's earning outright by selling merchandise and getting main event payoffs.

    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
    I suspect is the reason why he didn't try a second time to pursue his dream of being in the NFL (he JUST missed the Vikings' cut and was praised for his great athleticism and for being a quick learner but then didn't even entertain the idea of trying out again the next season).


I think in this case, money might've been a bigger factor. Brock's finances dried up and he now had a wife, a wife accustomed to a certain lifestyle, he had to support.
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John Cena isn't human when it comes to injuries. If someone chopped off his head, he'd be like Wolverine/Deadpool and just need his head placed back near his body and it will get put back together again. He'll be at HiTC.
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