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The W - Pro Wrestling - Kicking out
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Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: In a Blue State finally

Since last post: 1894 days
Last activity: 1894 days
#1 Posted on
Okay, I was watching some of the Triple H/Test match on Smackdown, and I caught Triple H kicking out of Test's Pump Handle Slam. Now this wasn't the finish of the match, and HHH did stay down for the Big Boot, but isn't the Pump Handle Slam also considered a finisher for Test? It's things like this that kind of sour me on the WWE's main eventers. Why do people like Triple H, Austin, and the Undertaker have to be no-selling supermen? (Okay, I admit, that my brain still thinks of UT and Kane as Undead Zombies, so their no-selling is somewhat excused) It doesn't have to be this way. Both Rock and Kurt Angle sell like champs, and don't lose anything for it. It actually makes people think they can lose.

Anyway, my real proposal here is that if the Upper Card is trying to look tougher than the midcarders, why kick out of their finishers and ruin the credibility of those finishers? Instead they should work a match where the manage to avoid/reverse those finishers. At least then there'd be suspense. I could say, "Well, Triple H has slipped out of the Pump Handle Slam and beat Test 342 times now, but if Test ever manages to his the PHS I KNOW he'll finally win one!"

-Jag



"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."

"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."

"Who do you love?"

-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
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CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 9 days
ICQ:  
#2 Posted on
Find me a match where Test has won with that move, then we'll talk.



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Phantom
Frankfurter








Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 5810 days
Last activity: 5786 days
#3 Posted on
I think there are some moves which are never meant to land -- Bubba Ray's Senton from the 2nd rope, Al Snow's moonsault...
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: In a Blue State finally

Since last post: 1894 days
Last activity: 1894 days
#4 Posted on
Will do, CRZ. And Phantom, he DOES hit the move, it just didn't put Triple H down tonight.

Anyway, I was kind of thinking about an overall level, that the purpose of finishers is to keep someone down for a three count, no matter if you Main event RAW, or Velocity. Finishers are supposed to finish your opponent, and barring excessive celebrating, lack of energy, interference, or being in a big money-making feud and wrestling on a PPV, you should always get a 3 count after hitting your finisher.

-Jag

Going to look for some Test matches. WOO!



"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."

"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."

"Who do you love?"

-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
J. Kyle
Banger








Since: 21.2.02
From: The Land of Aloha

Since last post: 1551 days
Last activity: 1332 days
#5 Posted on
A Star Wars Geek says:

During Test's initial run he beat plenty oh jobbers and the like with the PHS but Randy freakin Orton kicked out of it like two minutes into the match so I'd declare that that move's effectiveness has CEASED TO BE!



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 3740 days
Last activity: 3427 days
#6 Posted on

    Originally posted by AngryJohnny
    During Test's initial run he beat plenty oh jobbers and the like with the PHS but Randy freakin Orton kicked out of it like two minutes into the match so I'd declare that that move's effectiveness has CEASED TO BE!


If AngryJohnny ever gets more right, he'll die of correctness. Any-hoo, trust me, a kick in the f'n face from an almost 300 pound guy is a lot more painful and debilitating than getting dropped on your back.



"You betta recognize!!" D'Lo Brown
Texas Kelly
Lap cheong








Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

Since last post: 2359 days
Last activity: 1520 days
ICQ:  
#7 Posted on
If I remember my Test matches correctly, he usually uses the Meltdown (proper name for that move, I think) as a setup for the Savage elbow that he used to use as a finisher...



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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 3507 days
Last activity: 3507 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42

    Originally posted by Texas Kelly
    If I remember my Test matches correctly, he usually uses the Meltdown (proper name for that move, I think) as a setup for the Savage elbow that he used to use as a finisher...


That is true, but back in 1999, maybe early 2000 he did occassionaly win a match with this move and not the elbow.
socetew
Chourico








Since: 23.5.02
From: NYC, baby!

Since last post: 6303 days
Last activity: 6300 days
#9 Posted on
bling...bleep

finishers only kill a guy when he is already dead. if you do a finisher too early on, like angle's angle slam, it only hurts them, but doesn't finish them off.

i mean, look at y2j's finisher on farooq; a face rake???

love,
socetew
"So-Say-Too"



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Chumpstain
Bockwurst








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 549 days
Last activity: 549 days
#10 Posted on
Poor Test has been through many, many finishers.. the pumphandle powerslam/Meltdown might have been one a couple of years ago, and if I remember correctly (and I kind of disgust myself by remembering this) it's the move he used when he debuted, hitting it on Triple H of all people to give the Rock a screwjob win to retain his title. He hasn't won anything with it lately though. Just like his Savage elbowdrop, it was his finisher a couple of years ago, now the rare times he pulls it out he either misses or they kick out of it.

If someone kicks out of his big boot or the new Roll the Dice move he does, unless it's a PPV match where kickouts do happen sometimes, then we can complain. But the guy's used so many finishers.. if they were all still finishers, he'd have 6 or 7 ways to end matches. Which might not be a bad thing, but then we'd all be calling him a move hog.

(edited by Chumpstain on 30.5.02 2208)
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: In a Blue State finally

Since last post: 1894 days
Last activity: 1894 days
#11 Posted on
I knew it. I just KNEW it. Somebody had to bring PSYCHOLOGOY into this. Don't you know that match psychology has no place in the ring? Actually, I completely agree with you, socetew, but of course that kind of thing needs to be over on commentary. And of course, don't ever tell Austin or Triple H that, or they might kick you and then Stunner/Pedigree you. And nobody pops right up after that
-Jag



"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."

"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."

"Who do you love?"

-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 6015 days
Last activity: 5982 days
#12 Posted on

    Originally posted by Chumpstain
    Poor Test has been through many, many finishers.. the pumphandle powerslam/Meltdown might have been one a couple of years ago, and if I remember correctly (and I kind of disgust myself by remembering this) it's the move he used when he debuted, hitting it on Triple H of all people to give the Rock a screwjob win to retain his title. He hasn't won anything with it lately though. Just like his Savage elbowdrop, it was his finisher a couple of years ago, now the rare times he pulls it out he either misses or they kick out of it.

    If someone kicks out of his big boot or the new Roll the Dice move he does, unless it's a PPV match where kickouts do happen sometimes, then we can complain. But the guy's used so many finishers.. if they were all still finishers, he'd have 6 or 7 ways to end matches. Which might not be a bad thing, but then we'd all be calling him a move hog.

    (edited by Chumpstain on 30.5.02 2208)



I wonder who has the most finishers in the WWE now? Test is up there with

1).Roll of the Dice
2).Whatsitallaboot?
3).PHS
4).Savage Elbow

But I think Edge has it with

1).Missile Dropkick
2).Electric Chair Drop
3).Downward Spiral
4).Spear
5).Edge-o-matic
6).Edgecution
7).Figure-Four Edgelock
8).(With Christian) Con-chair-to
9).(With Christian) Stacked Superplex



"Have you seen the yellow sign?"
TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 3507 days
Last activity: 3507 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
Those aren't finishers the guys have NOW. Those are finishers the guys have NOW or have had in the past. I don't remember Edge winning with the Edgeomatic, he obviously doesn't do the double team moves anymore, he only used the standing figure four like twice before it was dropped for whatever reason, I don't know why you put missile dropkick unless it was his finisher long ago, and isn't the downward spiral another name for one of the other moves?

(edited by TheBucsFan on 30.5.02 2326)
astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 6015 days
Last activity: 5982 days
#14 Posted on
I was just talking about how many they introduced and then dropped. I know Austin had a bunch too, but I don't feel like looking them all up.

He won with the Edge-o-matic a few times. The match that sticks out most in my mind was on Heat vs. Al Snow.

When he debuted, he used the missile dropkick.

Downward Spiral = Flatliner



"Have you seen the yellow sign?"
Mr. Cactuar
Chorizo








Since: 14.1.02
From: Cactuar Island

Since last post: 7535 days
Last activity: 7528 days
#15 Posted on

    Originally posted by Phantom
    I think there are some moves which are never meant to land -- Bubba Ray's Senton from the 2nd rope, Al Snow's moonsault...


As for Al Snow's moonsault, he did beat himself, or should we say the table, in the RAW hardcore match against himself.



99,999 NEEDLES~!
Lexus
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

Since last post: 1453 days
Last activity: 199 days
#16 Posted on
Okay, this may or may not be pertinent due to it's age, but...

The only person to kick out of the Undertaker's Tombstone was the Undertaker, back when the Undertaker Tombstoned the Undertaker at Summerslam.

As such, did the Undertaker cheapen the Undertaker by kicking out of the Undertaker's Tombstone, or did the Undertaker look cooler when he Tombstoned the Undertaker 3 times after that to get the pin? Did it make sense for the Undertaker to kick out after the Undertaker Tombstoned him due to the fact that he's the Undertaker?

Sorry, had to throw that up there.



While working security at a local indy show, I saw Ricky Morton's bare ass, and the next time I hear anybody out there say "playing Ricky Morton", the person they mention had best have a really nice ass.
Ike
Salami








Since: 14.2.02
From: Burlington, Ontario

Since last post: 7822 days
Last activity: 7807 days
ICQ:  
#17 Posted on
If I remember correctly, Kane kicked out of not one, but two Tombstones in a row at a pay per view once. He kicked out of the third one, too, but a little after the three count.

Ike



"Go for the eyes, Boo! GO FOR THE EYES! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!" - Minsc, Baldur's Gate.
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: In a Blue State finally

Since last post: 1894 days
Last activity: 1894 days
#18 Posted on
I could not reconcile my two trains of thought after reading your post Lexus, so instead they collided. Your efforts are to be applauded because you rock, and then you are to be shot.

-Jag

/typo

(edited by Jaguar on 31.5.02 0053)


"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."

"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."

"Who do you love?"

-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
socetew
Chourico








Since: 23.5.02
From: NYC, baby!

Since last post: 6303 days
Last activity: 6300 days
#19 Posted on
bling...bleep


    Originally posted by Jaguar
    I knew it. I just KNEW it. Somebody had to bring PSYCHOLOGOY into this. Don't you know that match psychology has no place in the ring? Actually, I completely agree with you, socetew, but of course that kind of thing needs to be over on commentary. And of course, don't ever tell Austin or Triple H that, or they might kick you and then Stunner/Pedigree you. And nobody pops right up after that

    -Jag



If any of those guys so much as laid a finger on me, i'm sure I'd be out cold. However, Angle has kicked out of stunners, and possibly pedigrees... however, he still usually lost those matches, eventually.

best,
eocs



Listen to Elemental Wizardry right now!! It's great. Click anywhere on this signature to check it out. Thanks.
cranlsn
Toulouse








Since: 18.3.02
From: Hartland, WI

Since last post: 1955 days
Last activity: 57 days
#20 Posted on
Kicking out of a finisher, can be and should be, one of those "holy shit" mark out moments. It's been way over used lately though.

In the past it had been sign of a "close" match if the wrestler had to hit his finisher twice. These days, it's the norm...usually followed by the other over used device...using your opponents finisher. The first time I saw it, it was great, but now?

For a few weeks there, you would have thought that everyone's finish was a stunner, rock bottom, or "angle" lock!

jmodo
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