Okay, I was watching some of the Triple H/Test match on Smackdown, and I caught Triple H kicking out of Test's Pump Handle Slam. Now this wasn't the finish of the match, and HHH did stay down for the Big Boot, but isn't the Pump Handle Slam also considered a finisher for Test? It's things like this that kind of sour me on the WWE's main eventers. Why do people like Triple H, Austin, and the Undertaker have to be no-selling supermen? (Okay, I admit, that my brain still thinks of UT and Kane as Undead Zombies, so their no-selling is somewhat excused) It doesn't have to be this way. Both Rock and Kurt Angle sell like champs, and don't lose anything for it. It actually makes people think they can lose.
Anyway, my real proposal here is that if the Upper Card is trying to look tougher than the midcarders, why kick out of their finishers and ruin the credibility of those finishers? Instead they should work a match where the manage to avoid/reverse those finishers. At least then there'd be suspense. I could say, "Well, Triple H has slipped out of the Pump Handle Slam and beat Test 342 times now, but if Test ever manages to his the PHS I KNOW he'll finally win one!"
-Jag
"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."
"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."
"Who do you love?"
-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
Will do, CRZ. And Phantom, he DOES hit the move, it just didn't put Triple H down tonight.
Anyway, I was kind of thinking about an overall level, that the purpose of finishers is to keep someone down for a three count, no matter if you Main event RAW, or Velocity. Finishers are supposed to finish your opponent, and barring excessive celebrating, lack of energy, interference, or being in a big money-making feud and wrestling on a PPV, you should always get a 3 count after hitting your finisher.
-Jag
Going to look for some Test matches. WOO!
"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."
"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."
"Who do you love?"
-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
During Test's initial run he beat plenty oh jobbers and the like with the PHS but Randy freakin Orton kicked out of it like two minutes into the match so I'd declare that that move's effectiveness has CEASED TO BE!
Originally posted by AngryJohnnyDuring Test's initial run he beat plenty oh jobbers and the like with the PHS but Randy freakin Orton kicked out of it like two minutes into the match so I'd declare that that move's effectiveness has CEASED TO BE!
If AngryJohnny ever gets more right, he'll die of correctness. Any-hoo, trust me, a kick in the f'n face from an almost 300 pound guy is a lot more painful and debilitating than getting dropped on your back.
If I remember my Test matches correctly, he usually uses the Meltdown (proper name for that move, I think) as a setup for the Savage elbow that he used to use as a finisher...
CRZ NOTABLE QUOTABLE OF THE MONTH: KANE: Triple H...tonight, I will burn the flesh from your body! MICHAEL COLE: OH MY GOD. KANE THREATENING TRIPLE H, SAYING HE'S GONNA BURN THE FLESH FROM HIS BODY! CRZ: Umm, I heard it the FIRST time! -- WWF Smackdown, 9/9/99
Originally posted by Texas KellyIf I remember my Test matches correctly, he usually uses the Meltdown (proper name for that move, I think) as a setup for the Savage elbow that he used to use as a finisher...
That is true, but back in 1999, maybe early 2000 he did occassionaly win a match with this move and not the elbow.
finishers only kill a guy when he is already dead. if you do a finisher too early on, like angle's angle slam, it only hurts them, but doesn't finish them off.
i mean, look at y2j's finisher on farooq; a face rake???
Poor Test has been through many, many finishers.. the pumphandle powerslam/Meltdown might have been one a couple of years ago, and if I remember correctly (and I kind of disgust myself by remembering this) it's the move he used when he debuted, hitting it on Triple H of all people to give the Rock a screwjob win to retain his title. He hasn't won anything with it lately though. Just like his Savage elbowdrop, it was his finisher a couple of years ago, now the rare times he pulls it out he either misses or they kick out of it.
If someone kicks out of his big boot or the new Roll the Dice move he does, unless it's a PPV match where kickouts do happen sometimes, then we can complain. But the guy's used so many finishers.. if they were all still finishers, he'd have 6 or 7 ways to end matches. Which might not be a bad thing, but then we'd all be calling him a move hog.
I knew it. I just KNEW it. Somebody had to bring PSYCHOLOGOY into this. Don't you know that match psychology has no place in the ring? Actually, I completely agree with you, socetew, but of course that kind of thing needs to be over on commentary. And of course, don't ever tell Austin or Triple H that, or they might kick you and then Stunner/Pedigree you. And nobody pops right up after that
-Jag
"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."
"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."
"Who do you love?"
-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
Originally posted by ChumpstainPoor Test has been through many, many finishers.. the pumphandle powerslam/Meltdown might have been one a couple of years ago, and if I remember correctly (and I kind of disgust myself by remembering this) it's the move he used when he debuted, hitting it on Triple H of all people to give the Rock a screwjob win to retain his title. He hasn't won anything with it lately though. Just like his Savage elbowdrop, it was his finisher a couple of years ago, now the rare times he pulls it out he either misses or they kick out of it.
If someone kicks out of his big boot or the new Roll the Dice move he does, unless it's a PPV match where kickouts do happen sometimes, then we can complain. But the guy's used so many finishers.. if they were all still finishers, he'd have 6 or 7 ways to end matches. Which might not be a bad thing, but then we'd all be calling him a move hog.
(edited by Chumpstain on 30.5.02 2208)
I wonder who has the most finishers in the WWE now? Test is up there with
1).Roll of the Dice 2).Whatsitallaboot? 3).PHS 4).Savage Elbow
Those aren't finishers the guys have NOW. Those are finishers the guys have NOW or have had in the past. I don't remember Edge winning with the Edgeomatic, he obviously doesn't do the double team moves anymore, he only used the standing figure four like twice before it was dropped for whatever reason, I don't know why you put missile dropkick unless it was his finisher long ago, and isn't the downward spiral another name for one of the other moves?
Okay, this may or may not be pertinent due to it's age, but...
The only person to kick out of the Undertaker's Tombstone was the Undertaker, back when the Undertaker Tombstoned the Undertaker at Summerslam.
As such, did the Undertaker cheapen the Undertaker by kicking out of the Undertaker's Tombstone, or did the Undertaker look cooler when he Tombstoned the Undertaker 3 times after that to get the pin? Did it make sense for the Undertaker to kick out after the Undertaker Tombstoned him due to the fact that he's the Undertaker?
Sorry, had to throw that up there.
While working security at a local indy show, I saw Ricky Morton's bare ass, and the next time I hear anybody out there say "playing Ricky Morton", the person they mention had best have a really nice ass.
If I remember correctly, Kane kicked out of not one, but two Tombstones in a row at a pay per view once. He kicked out of the third one, too, but a little after the three count.
Ike
"Go for the eyes, Boo! GO FOR THE EYES! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!" - Minsc, Baldur's Gate.
I could not reconcile my two trains of thought after reading your post Lexus, so instead they collided. Your efforts are to be applauded because you rock, and then you are to be shot.
-Jag
/typo
(edited by Jaguar on 31.5.02 0053) "You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."
"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."
"Who do you love?"
-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer
Originally posted by JaguarI knew it. I just KNEW it. Somebody had to bring PSYCHOLOGOY into this. Don't you know that match psychology has no place in the ring? Actually, I completely agree with you, socetew, but of course that kind of thing needs to be over on commentary. And of course, don't ever tell Austin or Triple H that, or they might kick you and then Stunner/Pedigree you. And nobody pops right up after that
-Jag
If any of those guys so much as laid a finger on me, i'm sure I'd be out cold. However, Angle has kicked out of stunners, and possibly pedigrees... however, he still usually lost those matches, eventually.
Kicking out of a finisher, can be and should be, one of those "holy shit" mark out moments. It's been way over used lately though.
In the past it had been sign of a "close" match if the wrestler had to hit his finisher twice. These days, it's the norm...usually followed by the other over used device...using your opponents finisher. The first time I saw it, it was great, but now?
For a few weeks there, you would have thought that everyone's finish was a stunner, rock bottom, or "angle" lock!
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http://www.wwe.com/shows/webshows/ This is a great new webshow that started popping up on wwe.com, which is basically the Smackdown announcers shooting the shit about recent events going on in the company.