DMC
Liverwurst
   
   
    
   
Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA
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|  #1 Posted on 11.4.02 1353.41 | Did anyone catch Alan Keyes show last night? They had a great discussion on the Middle East situation, and for the first time in my life I found myself agreeing with almost everything Alan Dershowitz said! I just thought it was a very interesting mixture to see a conservative black guy and a liberal Jewish guy both agreeing with eachother 100% on a pro-Israeli, anti-terrorism stance. They were both making a lot of sense as far as I could tell, while Michael Lerner acted like a retarted clown and the other guest made only a few good points. Did anyone else catch this last night?
DMC
"MEAN.....WOOOOO! GENE!" -the beginning of every Flair promo in the WCW| Promote this thread! |           | MoeGates
Andouille
Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY
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| #2 Posted on 11.4.02 2235.17 | Alan Deshowitz is pretty far from being a liberal. Although I have to agree with you about Michael Lerner being a retarted clown (although I'd imagine for different reasons).
Moe
Expressing myself EVERY day! | HBK 2002
Linguica
Since: 17.2.02
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| #3 Posted on 12.4.02 1454.09 | I try to stay out of political talk, but Alan Dershowitz is most assuredly a liberal. Here is a link to a news article that quotes Dershowitz:
http://www.sptimes.com/News/100301/State/Secretary_of_State_Ha.shtml
Also, here is an article by UCLA Law Professor Eugene Volokh. Volokh mentions that liberal speakers, like Dershowitz, have addressed the Federalist Society.
http://www.law.ucla.edu/faculty/volokh/fedsoc.htm
Just a few random articles from a Google search of the term "Liberal Alan Dershowitz."
Now, I will once again refrain from political talk. | BDC
Chourico
Since: 26.1.02
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| #4 Posted on 13.4.02 0148.58 |
Originally posted by MoeGates
Alan Deshowitz is pretty far from being a liberal. Although I have to agree with you about Michael Lerner being a retarted clown (although I'd imagine for different reasons).
Moe
How liberal do you have to be to consider Dershowitz to not be one? Holy smokes!
BDC
"Hitler had pieces of flair that he made the Jews wear." | PalpatineW
Lap cheong
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| #5 Posted on 16.4.02 2252.19 | You wanna talk insane...
Anyone see the episode of "Making Sense" that dealt with the post 9/11 cartoon about Terror Widows, and suggested that they're exploiting the tragedy? A worthy opinion, in my eyes, but Keyes went full-on Baptist revival on the guy and threw all reason out the window. Making sense he was not.
It's time to party/let's party/party with yourself and have a crazy party
The Immortal Andrew WK, Poet and Philosopher | Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
Moderator
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From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.
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| #6 Posted on 17.4.02 0037.53 | Instant Rating: 4.05 | i don't know about you all, but i'm starting to see why they are sending sucide bomers to save their country...just just want to live alone with our isrealy [sp?] occupation.
some see the military actions taken by isreal a nessary act, some see it as an act of terror...
i can see both sides of the fence...one man's terror is another man's cry for freedom
DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT CONDONE THE ACTS OF 9/11; BIN LADEN MUST PAY!!!
867-5309............ | Jaguar
Knackwurst
Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ
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| #7 Posted on 17.4.02 0046.38 | Cash or Credit?
"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."
"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."
"Who do you love?"
-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer | DMC
Liverwurst
Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA
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| #8 Posted on 17.4.02 1744.01 | "i can see both sides of the fence...one man's terror is another man's cry for freedom
DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT CONDONE THE ACTS OF 9/11; BIN LADEN MUST PAY!!!"
Am I the only one having trouble reconciling those two sentences?
DMC
"Blinded by her sight, it's the darkness in her eyes that so enslaves me. But if my love is blind, then I don't want to see, she's a mystery to me." -Roy Orbison, Mystery Girl, written by Bono and The Edge | PalpatineW
Lap cheong
Since: 2.1.02
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| #9 Posted on 17.4.02 2245.19 |
Originally posted by DMC
"i can see both sides of the fence...one man's terror is another man's cry for freedom
DISCLAIMER: I DO NOT CONDONE THE ACTS OF 9/11; BIN LADEN MUST PAY!!!"
Am I the only one having trouble reconciling those two sentences?
DMC
Well, yeah. I'm sure the British saw Sam Adams and the sons of liberty as terrorists, and today history regards their acts as a cry for freedom. John Brown was a terrorist, more or less, but I think he was attempting to do a good thing (raid federal munitions dump, free slaves). Condoning violent resistance to violent oppression doesn't necessarily entail condoning attacks on civilians.
It's time to party/let's party/party with yourself and have a crazy party
The Immortal Andrew WK, Poet and Philosopher | DMC
Liverwurst
Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA
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| #10 Posted on 19.4.02 1531.13 | "Well, yeah. I'm sure the British saw Sam Adams and the sons of liberty as terrorists, and today history regards their acts as a cry for freedom. John Brown was a terrorist, more or less, but I think he was attempting to do a good thing (raid federal munitions dump, free slaves). Condoning violent resistance to violent oppression doesn't necessarily entail condoning attacks on civilians."
Well then that's a very important distinction. It may be ok to raise up arms in a revolution, but not to slaughter innocent people simply because you don't like them, or for any other reason for that matter. I think the latter more clearly falls into a definition of "terrorism." The only question I have is whether or not Bin Ladin's actions can in ANY way, and at ANY time be called a legitimate "cry for freedom" as the other post seemed to suggest. In his case there is no room whatsoever to "see the other side of the fence." What he did was EVIL, close the book, have a cookie, go to your room. End of discussion.
DMC
"Blinded by her sight, it's the darkness in her eyes that so enslaves me. But if my love is blind, then I don't want to see, she's a mystery to me." -Roy Orbison, Mystery Girl, written by Bono and The Edge | Travis
Boerewors
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| #11 Posted on 19.4.02 1557.40 |
Originally posted by DMC
"Well, yeah. I'm sure the British saw Sam Adams and the sons of liberty as terrorists, and today history regards their acts as a cry for freedom. John Brown was a terrorist, more or less, but I think he was attempting to do a good thing (raid federal munitions dump, free slaves). Condoning violent resistance to violent oppression doesn't necessarily entail condoning attacks on civilians."
Well then that's a very important distinction. It may be ok to raise up arms in a revolution, but not to slaughter innocent people simply because you don't like them, or for any other reason for that matter. I think the latter more clearly falls into a definition of "terrorism." The only question I have is whether or not Bin Ladin's actions can in ANY way, and at ANY time be called a legitimate "cry for freedom" as the other post seemed to suggest. In his case there is no room whatsoever to "see the other side of the fence." What he did was EVIL, close the book, have a cookie, go to your room. End of discussion.
DMC
Define for me "evil", please.
Fueled by Guinness, powered by YOUR LOVE.
RandomWrestling:why be obsequious when you can be HONEST? | DMC
Liverwurst
Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA
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| #12 Posted on 19.4.02 1605.12 | "Define for me "evil", please."
The lack of good. But I suppose I may not be able to help you with this if you do not accept as self-evident that there are such things as objectively good and evil actions.
DMC
"Blinded by her sight, it's the darkness in her eyes that so enslaves me. But if my love is blind, then I don't want to see, she's a mystery to me." -Roy Orbison, Mystery Girl, written by Bono and The Edge | Jaguar
Knackwurst
Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ
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| #13 Posted on 19.4.02 2354.28 | Well, Osama sends his followers to kill Americans and that's evil.
Bush sends his Army to kill Afghani's and that's.... what?
Justice?
-Jaguar
"You gotta hate somebody before this is over. Them, me, it doesn't matter."
"Hate, who do I hate? You tell me."
"Who do you love?"
-Wintermute to Case in William Gibson's Neuromancer | ges7184
Lap cheong
Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL
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| #14 Posted on 21.4.02 1122.04 | | Self-defense. | Travis
Boerewors
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| #15 Posted on 22.4.02 0839.06 |
Originally posted by DMC
"Define for me "evil", please."
The lack of good. But I suppose I may not be able to help you with this if you do not accept as self-evident that there are such things as objectively good and evil actions.
DMC
How are the concepts of good and evil "self evident"? You're using Bible logic. (ie: none)
Fueled by Guinness, powered by YOUR LOVE.
RandomWrestling:why be obsequious when you can be HONEST? | DMC
Liverwurst
Since: 8.1.02
From: Modesto, CA
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| #16 Posted on 23.4.02 1538.29 | "How are the concepts of good and evil "self evident"? You're using Bible logic. (ie: none)"
No, it's called Jeffersonian/Enlightenment logic. Read the Declaration of Independence.
DMC
"Blinded by her sight, it's the darkness in her eyes that so enslaves me. But if my love is blind, then I don't want to see, she's a mystery to me." -Roy Orbison, Mystery Girl, written by Bono and The Edge | PalpatineW
Lap cheong
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| #17 Posted on 23.4.02 1944.32 | Instant Rating: 5.44 | Everyone's missing the point. Riki was talking about the Palestinian situation, not the 9/11 attacks.
It's time to party/let's party/party with yourself and have a crazy party
The Immortal Andrew WK, Poet and Philosopher |
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