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The W - Pro Wrestling - Kayfabe Issues for WM--What's YOUR Say?
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RKMtwin
Boudin rouge








Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado

Since last post: 1995 days
Last activity: 1439 days
#1 Posted on
I often converse with my wrestling fan buddies on the kayfabe-only aspects of what's going on in the WWF. Suspending smarkdom, for a moment, I'm wondering what kinds of things run through others' minds when it comes to this year's WrestleMania, the nWo, or anything related.

For example, when it comes to the New World Order, I think it's utterly ridiculous for there to be nWo sympathizers in the WWF. I consider these nWo sympathizers to be anyone who agrees with Mr. McMahon's actions and, of course, people who outright defend Hogan, Hall, and Nash on WWF TV. After all, isn't EVERYBODY a target when it comes to the 'poison'?

Case in point (1)-- Y2J. Chris Jericho actually had the nerve to say that he could sympathize with Hogan, because the fans turned on him the same way we turned on Jericho. Hello?!
Is anybody up there in your noggin, Chris?

Don't you understand that the nWo's objective, at Vince's behest, is to eliminate the WWF and everything having to do with it? If you leave WrestleMania as undisputed champ, what makes you think YOU'RE not next on the nWo's list?

Case in point (2)-- The Undertaker. Please tell me I didn't hear 'Taker call Mr. McMahon 'boss' a few weeks ago. Hey-- American Dumb-Ass-- YOU are the conscious of the WWF, which makes YOU a prime target for Hogan, Hall, and Nash. You keep trying to draw Flair out for a WM match. You're cryin' about respect. You tell everyone about steppin' into your yard.
Well, what's the point of watching over the yard if the house it surrounds is in a burning heap of ashes and debris? Wake up, Undertaker. Poison spreads everywhere in the body. You are not immune, Dead Man.

So, everyone in message board land, what are your Kayfabe issues, stream(s) of consciousness, etc, on the WWF and things related?





I consider myself a "smart" fan but I am a KAYFABE MANIAC!!!
Promote this thread!
dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 3012 days
Last activity: 2717 days
#2 Posted on
Your theory would be sound if the NWO was actually a poison attacking the WWF. It is obvious that their mission has changed. They are just hanging out now. They happen to hate Rock, Austin and stage hands but other than that they are cool. Of course they are heels because they are attacking Rock and Austin, but they are not attempting to take over the WWF.

The build-up was for nothing. The "poison" talk was for nothing. It ain't happening. They are only a heel stable now. Welcome to WWF 2002. The place that the Hardyz can fued, have a few matches then come back like nothing ever happened. I still am a wrestling fan, but the WWF is really squandering all kinds of opportunities for some great TV.



January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
RKMtwin
Boudin rouge








Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado

Since last post: 1995 days
Last activity: 1439 days
#3 Posted on
It is too bad that the WWF mishandles its angles so badly. I guess we have to get accustomed to this, because it's been the norm since the botched Invasion, and perhaps, long before that.

However, I AM still interested in hearing about what could be said on a kayfabe level about what's going on. Whether it's good or not, in our eyes, try to place yourself in the shoes of somebody who's been watching the product for years and (goodness forbid) has never had contact with the internet wrestling community. What's the emotional, totally marked-out reaction?

Right on for the comments!

C'mon y'all! Speak up, or forever respond to other board messages! HAR HAR ;)



I consider myself a "smart" fan but I am a KAYFABE MANIAC!!!
Busyman14
Cotechino








Since: 24.2.02
From: Weston, Florida

Since last post: 4235 days
Last activity: 4219 days
#4 Posted on
I've had two mark out moments during the last month concerning the nWo. The whole Rock/Hogan angle on RAW and when Austin ran down to save The Rock on Smackdown tonight. That has been it. The rest of the time I'm itching to change the channel.

The problem is that the WWF killed the nWo in the first week. After their first RAW they looked like sick bastards who would stoop to any level to get their way. After their first Smackdown they looked like a bunch of pussies after Austin beat up Scott Hall. From that moment on their credibility as bad-ass heels were shot. If they were to do that Austin/Hall angle, they should of waited till after Wrestlemania. Keep all the nWo beatdowns on Austin we've seen so far in, and then have the match at WM. Have Scott Hall win, and then have Austin kidnap Hall the next on Raw. Then it would be okay, because the nWo has been established by that point.

It also didn't help that The Rock took off for two weeks to rest after the Scorpion King (I know he went on the Asia Tour, but at worst he should of missed one RAW). The Rock/Hogan interview segment was gold. Hogan trying to carry the feud while Rock was gone bombed. If were the WWF I would of waited till after Wrestlemania to do the Ambulance angle to give The Rock time off (just have Hogan pissed that he lost and do the Ambulance attack instead). Instead we have Hogan yakking it up to a Rock cardboard cut out. Excuse me while I yawn.

Also who have the nWo bugged besides Austin & The Rock? Despite being the "Poison" for the WWF, they haven't done much at all (wow, they beat up stage hands and Spike Dudley...who HASN'T?). Why should the fans fear the nWo if none of the other wrestlers do? This is being botched worst then the Invasion angle. At least that was booked okay until Summerslam. The nWo, except for that one night on RAW, have been booked very poorly.

If things don't improve soon, I'll probably stop watching for the most part and stick to getting old wrestling tapes via tape trading and other methods instead. I hope it doesn't come to that. I was watching some old RAW's recently from 1997. A lot of the wrestling sucked back then (the only good match from the 3 I watched was HBK/Mankind), but the angles were intresting (well some of them anyway), such as the Austin/Hart Street Fight and the subsequent Ambulance Attack. I also watched a RAW from early 2000 (the one in which Foley got re-instated and began his metamorphisis to Cactus Jack). Now that was interesting. The mid-carders got fair time on the show to shine, the angles for the most part were great (esp. Foley/HHH) and the show was INTERESTING. Now the show is meerly there (except for Stephanie who is activly pissing me off...not in the good heel heat way) and until they start sprucing up the show and put some thought into the process, I don't see things changing.

Rant over.

-Alex
God, I feel like such a internet smark.
rockdotcom_2.0
Frankfurter








Since: 9.1.02
From: Virginia Beach Va

Since last post: 393 days
Last activity: 9 days
AIM:  
#5 Posted on
Well on the Kayfabe level Im thinking that the NWO figure the best way to destroy the WWF is go after the top guys. I mean if you wanna cripple the WWF you dont go after Crash Holly, you go after the Rock. Look at it this way, the NWO are after Stone Cold and Rock, HHH is being hounded by Stephanie and Jericho. Jericho,Undertaker and Angle are ALL firmly in the pocket of Vince McMahon, who hired the NWO. Undertaker is trying to take out Ric Flair, so all their bases are covered. All the top guys are tied up. The midcard guys arent making a peep against the NWO because if Vince Mcmahon is victorious, he can fire all who opposed him. Hows that?



"But the truth is, YOURE the weak, and I am the tyranny of evil men. But Im trying Ringo, Im trying hard to be the shepherd....."

Jules Winfield
RKMtwin
Boudin rouge








Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado

Since last post: 1995 days
Last activity: 1439 days
#6 Posted on
Right on to those who've posted on this topic! I'm not just kissing butt, so don't get me wrong, but I can definitely agree with all points made in each of the responses so far. This is what troubles me--

whether we're looking at this situation for what it is, or if we're trying to look at it from a totally casual-mark standpoint, the bottom line is that the whole nWo angle thus far, on both fronts, has lacked logic and emotion. You know, if the nWo had "apologized" for their actions back in the summer of 1996 when they 1) powerbombed Bischoff from the stage at the Great American Bash, 2) assaulted WCW wrestlers at Disney MGM (the Rey Misterio Jr. dart throw) 3) cleaned the spray-painted nWo logo off of the WCW World Title belt, the nWo would have looked like complete and utter pansies.

The "apology" on SmackDown! should have never happened. The whole ambulance thing should've never happened. The hammer attack sufficed just fine. And of course, you won't see midcarders or JTTS try to take on the nWo because with the way this whole angle's been portrayed, everyone but Rock and Austin just don't count. I mean, wouldn't it have only made sense that on their third outing, Triple H could've been the next hit?!

Kayfabe wise, if a midcarder tried to speak out against the nWo and got decimated, and I mean DECIMATED afterward, like a Macho Man '96 thuggin', maybe that could help to instill some fear. But alas, the nWo is no more fearful to me than the RTC at this point.

Thanks for the feedback. I want y'all to respond, no matter how respectful or mean and evil you are. It's all good! Till then, I want more! MORE MORE MORE! Feedback that is. What? You think I was asking for POWER? You don't need power if you got the people behind you, baby! >











I consider myself a "smart" fan but I am a KAYFABE MANIAC!!!
Travis
Boerewors








Since: 7.3.02
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 4350 days
Last activity: 4286 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#7 Posted on
If the NWO TRULY wants to attain dominance, they need the help of the one man who truly gave life to their ascension in WCW...

DA AMERICAN DWEEEM.

Den dey'd be a-clubberin' all dem DubbyaDubbyaEffas on de belly-wellys wit da PLUNDAH~!

Yeah.



"People building their own cages rage at thoughts of liberation."- 15
wannaberockstar
Bockwurst








Since: 7.3.02
From: MA

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#8 Posted on
The only thing I don't get is.. Triple H is out for 8 months for having leg surgery, yet, The Rock only misses one(or two, I dunno) weeks for almost being killed (and being in an Ambulance that got creamed by a mack truck.
Saruman
Salami








Since: 25.1.02
From: Kirksville, MO

Since last post: 4267 days
Last activity: 4238 days
AIM:  
#9 Posted on
That's not as bad as DYING, then coming back for the next show (re: HHH/Austin Feud 2001)



Insert clever comment.
Ffej
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.02
From: Flatwoods, KY

Since last post: 2134 days
Last activity: 444 days
Y!:
#10 Posted on
And lets not forget that Trips was dropped 40 feet to the ground while in a car by on Stone Cold via a crane, yet was at Raw the next night. PLOT HOLES SUCK!



When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.
wannaberockstar
Bockwurst








Since: 7.3.02
From: MA

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by Saruman
    That's not as bad as DYING, then coming back for the next show (re: HHH/Austin Feud 2001)


Ahhh, I forgot about that one.. well I suppose those are just 'little' things we can overlook :P
Travis
Boerewors








Since: 7.3.02
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 4350 days
Last activity: 4286 days
AIM:  
ICQ:  
#12 Posted on
The Giant fell of an arean roof once, then wrestled the same night.

BTW, remember when a ring bellshot or a piledriver on the floor was enough to put someone out for weeks or months??

*sigh*

I didn't think so.



"People building their own cages rage at thoughts of liberation."- 15
Swordsman Yen
Frankfurter








Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

Since last post: 3749 days
Last activity: 3732 days
#13 Posted on

    Originally posted by RKMtwin
    You know, if the nWo had "apologized" for their actions back in the summer of 1996 when they 1) powerbombed Bischoff from the stage at the Great American Bash, 2) assaulted WCW wrestlers at Disney MGM (the Rey Misterio Jr. dart throw) 3) cleaned the spray-painted nWo logo off of the WCW World Title belt, the nWo would have looked like complete and utter pansies.


Well, the apology had to be used as an explanation for why Hogan, Hall, and Nash didn't have attempted manslaughter charges brought against them. Driving a semi into an ambulance with somebody in it would go beyond the jurisdiction of the wrestling world, one would think.

I don't think the NWO came off as pansies since the "apology" was a prepared statement and they sold it as the NWO not being sincere and only doing it to escape criminal prosecution.

I don't mind the NWO getting their comuppance once in a while, since I believe their dominating the first 24 months of the WCW run and in turn making the WCW stars look much, much weaker contributed to the angle getting stale pretty quickly. The problem I have with the WWF version of the NWO is that it's getting formulaic. The NWO beatdowns happen on Raw, and Austin and/or Rock get revenge on Smackdown. I didn't know wrestling shows had a rerun season. There needs to be more creativity and thought into the storyline, or the NWO would be lucky to last into KOTR.



"Say 'what' again. SAY 'WHAT' AGAIN! I dare you, I double dare you, motherf--ker! Say 'what' one more goddamn time!" -- Samuel L. Jackson, Pulp Fiction (1994)
Crossface Chicken Wing
Cotto








Since: 5.3.02
From: Long Island, NY

Since last post: 4264 days
Last activity: 4263 days
#14 Posted on
I think the biggest hole in the nwo storyline is this:
Imagine at your job there are people you like and people you hate and people you just tolerate. Now imagine 3 guys get hired at your job and start beating the snot out of 2 of the guys at your job. If these 3 new guys are actually a threat to your livelihood, then you and all the other guys you work with would get out there and kick their asses, regardless if you're all friends or not. They actually did this logically during the Invasion, except for the problem that only the jobbers went after the WCW guys =) but at least SOMEBODY did. This time, these 3 guys that EVERYONE hates are attempting to murder your coworkers and all the rest of you just sit there and say "at least it's not me"!

-CFCW
RKMtwin
Boudin rouge








Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado

Since last post: 1995 days
Last activity: 1439 days
#15 Posted on
Brutha'!

Th' Uh-mawcunn Dweem, Duthtuh Rhowdz ith thee tholushun, brutha, if you wheel, to thu who' eyen-dubbya-oh sitchuwayshunn. (heave)... if ah cayme back to thu Dubbyuh Dubbyuh Eyef, (heave) then I would run all ovuh Authdun and Rock brutha,... Rocky Maivia, (heave) ...Bluw Chippuh Rock Rocky Dwayne Johnsunn Rock Maivia, brutha... (heave) Ah'd be clubberun all ovuh thith nayshun uv ours, if you wheel... (heave) Hawk Hogunn, (heave) Kevun "Oth" Nayash knowwhatah'msayunn, and Thcott Hall, daddy doll!(heave) We would run ovuh the who' wahd
wuuld, brutha! Ah'd evin hit um' wiyith uh toilet lid! If you wheel...(heave) and theyen mah thunn, brutha... (heave) froot uv mah loenth, brutha, (heave) Duthdun Rhowdz, (heave) Goal-dutht-Mawcunn nightmeah... Nat'rol Duthdun Rhowdz... (heave) would wiyin the wuuld's heavuhwait chyempyunsheeyip, brutha'... (heave) He'd be greatuh theyen the great, brutha (heave), gooduh then the good, daddy-doll! (heave)
He'd becumm thuh lahtneeyin boat! (heave) the franchaathe! (heave) But he'd nevuh bee ath grey-eight ath his fathuh...
(heave) th' Uh-mawcunn Dweem... Duthtuh Rhowdz, if you wheell...



I consider myself a "smart" fan but I am a KAYFABE MANIAC!!!
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 117 days
Last activity: 88 days
#16 Posted on
Ahh...that RKWtwin guy is the man... Hut still... onto WM...

I like Triple H because his wife is a bitch and he's the angry badass.
I hate Jericho because he's the cocky bastard.

I hate Hogan because he hates me (as a fan).
I like Rock because he's cool and all for the fans.

I like Flair because he goes "Whoo!!!"
I dislike Taker 'cause he's mean.

I like RVD because he's cool and does flippy stuff.
I dislike Regal because he's British.

I like Stone Cold because he's fun & drunk.
I dislike Hall because he's drunk.



Holden: Judging by the buzz, that movie's gonna make some serious bank.
Jay: What buzz?
Holden: The internet buzz.
Jay: What the f*ck is the internet?
[Holden (Ben Affleck) & Jay (Jason Mewes) in Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back]
Busyman14
Cotechino








Since: 24.2.02
From: Weston, Florida

Since last post: 4235 days
Last activity: 4219 days
#17 Posted on

    Originally posted by Crossface Chicken Wing
    I think the biggest hole in the nwo storyline is this:
    Imagine at your job there are people you like and people you hate and people you just tolerate. Now imagine 3 guys get hired at your job and start beating the snot out of 2 of the guys at your job. If these 3 new guys are actually a threat to your livelihood, then you and all the other guys you work with would get out there and kick their asses, regardless if you're all friends or not. They actually did this logically during the Invasion, except for the problem that only the jobbers went after the WCW guys =) but at least SOMEBODY did. This time, these 3 guys that EVERYONE hates are attempting to murder your coworkers and all the rest of you just sit there and say "at least it's not me"!

    -CFCW



And that's why the nWo is bombing. Austin in the past has routinly stunned/beat up half of the WWF lockerroom for the hell of it. The Rock has called everyone else in the WWF a jabroni. So why should they care if they get plunked out? Look at the latest Smackdown rating...for a show 10 days removed from Wrestlemania, to get a rating that low shows that this angle is bombing. They need the nWo to come down in the opening of Raw, beat up Jerry Lawler & JR, and then take over for the whole show if the nWo is going to be the "Poison" we hear so much about.

-Alex
RKMtwin
Boudin rouge








Since: 1.3.02
From: Denver, Colorado

Since last post: 1995 days
Last activity: 1439 days
#18 Posted on
Much of my ideas about both of the topics I posted are pretty much the same right now, so far as what I'm feeling when it comes to WM.

You know, I've been a wrestling fan all my life. And I've bought every WM PPV broadcast on a consistent basis since WM 12. On top of all that, in my lifetime I've seen wrestling matches from fifteen differnent organizations. I've bought the T-shirts, I've gone to house shows, I've gone to indy cards. So I'm in the same boat as all of you who are fans who have come across my first two threads. I want to be ebtrtained, dammit! And from this point last year, I was far more interested in WM than I am right now. I don't think that's a good thing.

Now why do I bring up my little past as a wrestling fan? Because you know something, I've never been so UNENTHUSIASTIC about a WrestleMania, ever! When I watched RAW where Hogan and Rock agreed to take eachother on for WM, I was markin' out like a madman! But what happens afterward? Why summarize it?

It's BORING.

Thw WWF ws so awesome in 2000. It wasn't just because of Benoit, Malenko, Guerrero and Saturn coming in. It was because of the fact that you had good matches all around. You had storylines that you could be compelled by. There were few bad points in the year of 2000 because what the WWF presented was what WE wanted to see. Yeah, that's right. What WE wanted to see.

WE looked at Cactus Jack like he was a squared circle folk hero.
WE doubted that HHH and Rock could go 60 minutes, but they did, and it looked like they could go at least 30 more.
WE wanted to see Benoit and the Radicalz mix it up with the WWF's best, and we did.
WE marked out and were confused about who to cheer when Rikishi and Rock took eachother on on SmackDoen! earlier that year.
WE marked out when Tazz took on HHH--ECW champ vs. WWF champ.

Now it's 2002. And the WWF has botched the WCW 'invasion" and they're botching the nWo angle.

What the hell are the bookers thinking anyway? What t the hell is Vince thinking? There is nop XFL to place the blame on now! Good friggin' gracious!

Wait--

Didn't I say this was supposed to be a KAYFABE thread?
My bad.



I consider myself a "smart" fan but I am a KAYFABE MANIAC!!!
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