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The W - Current Events & Politics - Katrina's latest victim: FEMA
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JimBob Skeeter
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 1 day
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.87
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Coast Guard Vice Adm. Thad Allen will replace Michael Brown, the embattled FEMA director, as the on-site head of hurricane relief operations in the Gulf Coast, a senior administration official told CNN.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168915,00.html

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/09/katrina.washington/index.html


-Earlier Thursday, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, questioned FEMA's ability to spend the money properly and suggested that a public authority similar to the Tennessee Valley Authority be created for rebuilding efforts.

"After everything that has happened with FEMA, is there anyone who believes that we should continue to let the money go to FEMA and be distributed by them?" Reid asked.-


I know I'm not there,a nd I KNOW that this was a deadly blow to the city, but it really does seem to me like FEMA has dropped the ball here. Hopefully this move will help the victims out more.


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CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.51
    Originally posted by JimBob Skeeter
    Earlier Thursday, Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada, questioned FEMA's ability to spend the money properly and suggested that a public authority similar to the Tennessee Valley Authority be created for rebuilding efforts.
Oh boy - more bureaucracy is ALWAYS the answer. Just look at how safe that DHS reorg has made us! PERMANENT YELLOW ALERT!



CRZ
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 163 days
Last activity: 163 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.99
Somehow I've gotten the impression that it was the people who were in charge at FEMA that were the problem, not the organization itself. What were Mike Brown's qualifications anyway? All I've been hearing about is his damn horse commish job.



BEHOLD MY POWER
February 2nd, 2001 - August 9th, 2005
The End of an Era

I'm single again.
DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 1 day
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.35
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Somehow I've gotten the impression that it was the people who were in charge at FEMA that were the problem, not the organization itself. What were Mike Brown's qualifications anyway? All I've been hearing about is his damn horse commish job.


But Jag isn't an organization the people in charge?

IMO, the problem FEMA and most of "Homeland Security" has is being focused on terrorism almost to the exclusion of natural disasters. If the numbers are true, many more people will have died as the result of Katrina than on 9/11. Both are horrific and need to be prepared for and I honestly don't feel we are prepared for either as well as we should be. And BOTH parties are to blame!



Perception is reality
Boston Idol
Blutwurst








Since: 17.2.03
From: San Jose, CA

Since last post: 2833 days
Last activity: 2626 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
Reid and Pelosi are sacrificial lambs. The Democrats
realize that as the minority party all their leaders
can do is bitch and moan, so they found two stooges
who are self-seeking enough to take the jobs even
though they have to constantly humiliate themselves.

Hillary Clinton, whatever one thinks of her, is shrewd
and ambitious. If those jobs were worth having, she
would have taken one of them, but she knows that right
now the role consists mainly of bitching and moaning.

Unfortunately having clowns in leadership positions
doesn't help the party to generate the support needed
to reverse the Republican majority. What agendas are
Reid and Pelosi pushing? What programs have they
proposed. Bashing the other party isn't enough, as
John Kerry discovered. You have to communicate your
own vision and your own plan for reaching that goal.

Proposing a bureaucracy isn't a plan, it's a soundbyte.
If the Democrats wanted to take the initiative, they
would come out with their own budget and timeline for
rebuilding the region along with programs to address
the poverty of the victims and the horrific response
by local, state, and federal officials.

But of course Reid and Pelosi refuse to criticize local
and state officials because they are Democrats, so they
couldn't really develop a cogent response to this event,
even if they had the vision and intelligence to do so.

But I digress...

Bush will probably appoint Colin Powell as "relief czar."

Frank
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 8 days
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.70
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by Jaguar
      Somehow I've gotten the impression that it was the people who were in charge at FEMA that were the problem, not the organization itself. What were Mike Brown's qualifications anyway? All I've been hearing about is his damn horse commish job.


    But Jag isn't an organization the people in charge?

    IMO, the problem FEMA and most of "Homeland Security" has is being focused on terrorism almost to the exclusion of natural disasters. If the numbers are true, many more people will have died as the result of Katrina than on 9/11. Both are horrific and need to be prepared for and I honestly don't feel we are prepared for either as well as we should be. And BOTH parties are to blame!


As far as aftermath goes, is there really any significant difference between reacting to a terrorist attack and reacting to a natural disaster? It would seem that it's pretty much the same difference, which is why FEMA was rolled into the DHS in the first place. This should be a wake-up call, we aren't prepared to handle disasters, at least not nationwide, and considering we have a department dedicated to this, it's something that needs to be fixed (creating a different department doesn't fix anything).



The Bored are already here. Idle hands are the devil's workshop. And no... we won't kill dolphins. But koalas are fair game.
Dahak
Frankfurter








Since: 12.5.02
From: Junction City OR.

Since last post: 1990 days
Last activity: 1643 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.48
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    Somehow I've gotten the impression that it was the people who were in charge at FEMA that were the problem, not the organization itself. What were Mike Brown's qualifications anyway? All I've been hearing about is his damn horse commish job.


I have to agree. For every position in DC I want a person who is well qualified for the job. Not a person who was able to round up 8 million in campaign contributions or helped win Vermont in the last election.
Rewarding your friends after you win an election is an old process in DC. But it's stupid. Putting someone who was in charge of the Red Cross or some related situation would have made too much sense. Instead we get friends of the new POTUS shuffled off into hopefully non-important positions. Well, let's see if the next POTUS learns their lesson but don't bet any money on it.



Marge I am just trying to get into heaven not run for Jesus.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 day
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.93
    Originally posted by Boston Idol
    Reid and Pelosi are sacrificial lambs. The Democrats
    realize that as the minority party all their leaders
    can do is bitch and moan, so they found two stooges
    who are self-seeking enough to take the jobs even
    though they have to constantly humiliate themselves.

    Hillary Clinton, whatever one thinks of her, is shrewd
    and ambitious. If those jobs were worth having, she
    would have taken one of them, but she knows that right
    now the role consists mainly of bitching and moaning.

    Unfortunately having clowns in leadership positions
    doesn't help the party to generate the support needed
    to reverse the Republican majority. What agendas are
    Reid and Pelosi pushing? What programs have they
    proposed. Bashing the other party isn't enough, as
    John Kerry discovered. You have to communicate your
    own vision and your own plan for reaching that goal.

    Proposing a bureaucracy isn't a plan, it's a soundbyte.
    If the Democrats wanted to take the initiative, they
    would come out with their own budget and timeline for
    rebuilding the region along with programs to address
    the poverty of the victims and the horrific response
    by local, state, and federal officials.

    But of course Reid and Pelosi refuse to criticize local
    and state officials because they are Democrats, so they
    couldn't really develop a cogent response to this event,
    even if they had the vision and intelligence to do so.

    But I digress...

    Bush will probably appoint Colin Powell as "relief czar."

    Frank


Hey, once the Dems win back the House in 2006 after the public's disgust at the Republicans, and then Bush/Cheney are impeached, Pelosi becomes president. And then you can't make posts like this any more since the president needs your support (tm Fox News).

I think it's clear that none of the elected officials did a good job before, during or in the immediate aftermath of his disaster, and that includes people from both parties.
Isn't FEMA's specific job to look after natural disasters while the Department of Homeland Security handles terrorism?





"Rap-metal nearly put the white race in jeopardy [as a creative force]. It's a travesty. Those [rap-metal] people should just take suicide pills and go away." -- Bono

http://www.interference.com/u2128132/index.html
Boston Idol
Blutwurst








Since: 17.2.03
From: San Jose, CA

Since last post: 2833 days
Last activity: 2626 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
The next phase of this story will be "we got off light."

I'm not downplaying the suffering of people who were stuck
in New Orleans for several days nor am I downplaying the
loss of life and property, but with a death toll likely
to be 5,000 or less as compared to studies that predicted
60,000 or more deaths, New Orleans got off light in terms
of the death toll. Hopefully people will think long and
hard about the implications of this, because it was good
luck rather than good planning. If the hurricane had not
veered East, away from New Orleans, it probably would have
killed more than 60,000 people because it was stronger than
the hurricane used in the study.

We should treat this failure as if it cost tens of thousands
of lives, because only dumb luck spared many people in New
Orleans from being killed the night the storm hit the city.

The first lesson is to allow the President to take control
of a situation without an invitation from state or local
government. Bush declared an emergency long before local
and state government acted. He shouldn't have needed to
wait for them to figure out how serious the situation was.

The second lesson is to make evacuations mandatory. It
will cost a lot of money and there will be false alarms,
but it is the best way to prevent loss of life. Perhaps
we could have gotten troops and supplies to the Convention
Center faster, but if the hurricane hadn't changed course,
most of those people would have already been dead.

Frank
Shem the Penman
Toulouse








Since: 16.1.02
From: The Off-Center of the Universe (aka Philadelphia)

Since last post: 228 days
Last activity: 26 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.15

    Bush declared an emergency long before local
    and state government acted.


No.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/katrina/nagin.asp



"I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." -- George W. Bush, Good Morning America, September 1, 2005
Boston Idol
Blutwurst








Since: 17.2.03
From: San Jose, CA

Since last post: 2833 days
Last activity: 2626 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
Bush declared an emergency on Saturday.
Mayor Nagin didn't issue the mandatory
evacuation order until Sunday morning.
That is the delay I was referring to.

Nagin was called at 8PM Saturday night,
your link does not dispute that, yet
Nagin waited another 14 hours before
issuing the mandatory evacuation order.

I don't see any defense offered for that
delay on the page to which you linked.
In fact it appears the author ignored
the issue of Nagin's long delay entirely
because it wasn't flattering to Nagin.

Frank

(edited by Boston Idol on 10.9.05 1740)
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 49 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.57
    Originally posted by Boston Idol
    The first lesson is to allow the President to take control of a situation without an invitation from state or local government.

I am not sure this jibes with what you have been saying in other threads about how the primary level of blame lies with the local and state governments, since they are the ones most familiar with the situation and should be responsible for planning and dealing with the aftermath of such an event. Seems to me like letting the Feds take control of the situation without waiting for advisement from the local/state governments would be very much not in line with that way of thinking.



Boston Idol
Blutwurst








Since: 17.2.03
From: San Jose, CA

Since last post: 2833 days
Last activity: 2626 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
Local government should be responsible first, but clearly
Nagin and Blanco were totally inept. Nagin didn't provide
any evacuation transportation despite knowing that perhaps
50,000 or more residents didn't even own cars. Blanco set
up shelter for a mere 1,000 evacuees, despite New Orleans
having about 100,000 people registered as disabled.

If a competant federal official (apparently Brown doesn't
qualify) had taken charge, he or she could have ordered
the city of New Orleans to use their fleet of busses (at
least 700) to start evacuating people on Saturday night
or early Sunday morning. He or she could have ordered
the state to start setting up shelters or working with
FEMA to identify area where the Guard could set them up.

Worst case scenario is state and local government are
complete fuck ups, which we saw in this instance. There
are problems at the federal level, like appointing hacks
who raised money for the President, but we are more likely
to be able to fix the problem in Washington than to fix
the potential problems in 50 states.

If the buck stops in Washington, the Federal Government
needs the power to intervene. Yes, state and local
officials are better positioned to develop plans and
to provide a short term response. FEMA should be able to
put pressure on those governments to develop plans, drill
for emergencies, and make improvements in a timely manner.

Frank
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.51
Hey Frank...how much money does Mayor Nagin owe you, anyway?



CRZ
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I am not sure why when he is probably not going to be able to carry Pennsylvania. He was a two term Senator who lost in a landslide and was shown to be a carpetbagger more then anything else.
- lotjx, Santorum is in, too (2011)
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