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The W - Pro Wrestling - Kane
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PalpatineW
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#1 Posted on
How bout that Kane throwing Show over the top rope, eh? I suppose it wasn't as cool as it could have been, since Show kinda did it last week, but still... Show's a lot bigger than Rikishi.

Which brings me to the subject of Kane in general... I think they kind of dropped the ball with him a year ago. IIRC, he came into the rumble with a good head of steam, and had a really good showing at the '01 Rumble itself. I remember thinking, while I was watching it, that if ever there was a time to push him to the top card, it was now. (Now, as in '01) But now, as in '02, he's just kinda... cold. Stale. Thoughts?



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Since: 22.1.02
From: London

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#2 Posted on
in the last 12 months kane has kinda lost something in his step, hasn't he ? i bet this the doing of austin , hhh and the undertaker would r sarced that he could threatern their postion on top of the card.



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dMp
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Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#3 Posted on

I think it is more a result of not knowing where to go with his character (the big red unstoppable non-thinking monster machine) and that injury of his than any politics.

But it is true, a year ago, I really expected him to make that final jump only to see him fade away.




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Since: 9.12.01
From: Bay City, OR

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#4 Posted on
We saw Kane by himself last night on RAW, and he was interacting - even talking - with people other than the Undertaker.

He's going to have to be able to pull that off if he is ever going to get the push. The problem is, while I get excited every time Kane starts to speak, its due to it being novel - not because its a good promo.

Kane is really bad on the stick. He's gotten where he has by his size and ability. To go further, he either needs a mouthpiece or a character re-work.

Now, I wouldn't mind if they did the obvious and brought Stevie Richards in to manage Kane. Unfortunately, Kane would probably have to fued with UT to do it, and this would drop him to Hardcore level again.

Has there been a managed Heavyweight since the days of Paul and UT or Kamala and Kim Chee?



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

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#5 Posted on
I wish Paul Bearer could come back and manage Kane. I loved Kane back then. But now I don't know. They have had Kane at the Christmas party, talking to people, hanging out. That kind of kills the whole, "Big Red Machine" of destruction. I would like him to go crazy again and start attacking everyone again like he used to.




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Since: 3.1.02
From: Springfield, Mo.

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#6 Posted on
Originally posted by Guru Zim
Has there been a managed Heavyweight since the days of Paul and UT or Kamala and Kim Chee?



None that I can think of, to be honest.

But they missed a GOLDEN opportunity for something like this with the Rumble and Maven. Had they given Maven a greasy little heel manager a la Jimmy Hart or Slick or Bobby Heenan or even -- dare I say it -- Clarence Mason, they could have had said manager complain that Maven was screwed and deserved the win because he wasn't eliminated. In the most extreme case, I suppose Al Snow could do it.

Of course, the "angle" would work better if the manager had a stable of guys -- like the Heenan family -- to run in and interfere, making sure Maven could get the win. Or at least make the audience think he could.

Man, do I miss the days of good managers.



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Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

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#7 Posted on

The last two posts got me thinking..
How the hell would you be able to repackage Kane without having him loose his 'big red machine who destroys ppl left and right' vibe but make him human or interesting enough to go a different direction..
I myself have no idea. Getting rid of the mask would destroy his evil look, but only without it would he be able to talk normally and stuff..



Whatever..
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#8 Posted on
I'm still big on Raven getting into Kane's head to do *evil* deeds. Somehow Kane needs to turn into a person that wears a mask instead of the freaky monster. I really dig his look though and I'd like him to get over while keeping the look. The mask really hinders his promos though so I think he will need a manager.

As for managers Shane managed Show and Benoit for awhile.
ripblazer
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Since: 16.1.02
From: Calgary Alberta Canada

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#9 Posted on
Debra was "forced" to manage the Rock once (against SCSA) by Vince. how, I don't know.
SerWolfe
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Since: 11.1.02
From: st louis

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#10 Posted on
i like the raven idea... have him run rampant... then turn on raven......... could be cool



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

Since last post: 58 days
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#11 Posted on
I'm very partial to the Kane mask, myself, but he's going to have to lose it if he's ever going to rise in the ranks. When he debuted at Bad Blood in 97 (?) he was promoted as a killer monster heel and smashed everyone on his way to the top. Now, the WWF has to live with the monster alright...a monster who is unbelievable as anything but the WWF Champion. They have humanized him and made him too vulnerable to ever play the psychopath again...it is time to unmask.

For the naysayers, can you think of any other way to freshen Kane's gimmick? It's all been done, right, except the mask angle. Like someone has said before, you can explain his injuries by doing an angle where he learns that he's actually NOT disfigured...the evil Paul Bearer made him a monster and convinced him he was gross. Kinda like Tom Cruise in Vanilla Sky.

Can unmasking work for anyone? Arguably, yes, especially Kane. It worked for "Mortis" (Kanyon). It worked for Mysterio and Juventud, and, love him or hate him, "Wrath" (Bryan Clarke). However, I think Kane has the x-factor that none of those three have and he could be a success with or without a prop.

I, like most everyone else, shudder at the thought of Kane no longer stalking to the ring, pulling on his gloves, setting off the pyros and all that. But come on, there has to be more to the guy.






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Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.87
Losing the mask is going to kill the character. The mask is now as much a part of the character as the monster running wild.

He needs freshening but losing the mask is NOT the answer.




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SerWolfe
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Since: 11.1.02
From: st louis

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#13 Posted on
yeah.... the mask is part of kane... loose the mask and it just isn't kane.... you would have to change the wrestler completely... and that would destroy the fan appeal he has now....



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Since: 2.1.02

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#14 Posted on

Can unmasking work for anyone? Arguably, yes, especially Kane. It worked for "Mortis" (Kanyon). It worked for Mysterio and Juventud, and, love him or hate him, "Wrath" (Bryan Clarke). However, I think Kane has the x-factor that none of those three have and he could be a success with or without a prop.


But the difference between those guys and Kane is that while the mask was simply part of their uniform (actually, the mask is important to luchas, but the significance of Mysterio and the like was never played up properly by WCW), the mask is actually a defining part of Kane's character. It would be like saying the Undertaker needs to drop a foot in height to freshen up. The mask for Kane isn't just an accessory, it's a part of him that he needs and can't be without.



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Since: 7.1.02

Since last post: 4635 days
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#15 Posted on
Kane losing the mask is a bad, bad idea - anyone remember what Isaac Yanbem looked like? The guy's over with the crowd already, the only thing hurting him is the bad writing. If the writers had half a brain they would have developed that hot Kane-Angle angle (angle angle, angle angle...angle) last week into a full-fledged feud. Kane should have Taker's spot as 'monster big guy' at the top now, seeing as he is far more easily carried and has a better look than his "brother", but you know how those there backstage politicking are.



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PalpatineW
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Getting Rowdy

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#16 Posted on
Right on. People will definitely get behind Kane if the booking is right, but I don't know if he could convincingly carry the Heavyweight strap with his mic skills, and the limitations his gimmick puts on his mic skills. Though maybe with a manager of sorts he could. Hell, Vince has long associated himself with whatever heel is currently holding the belt, so why not Kane?



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Three blocks east of the One Man Gang

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#17 Posted on
Smackdown Spoilers Included

















I enjoy the idea of the team of Big Show and Kane. It kinda reminds me of the King Kong Bundy and Big John Studd team. Plus adding in the dissention shown at the Smackdown tapings, they could possibly bring on the continuity of Kane being burned by X-Pac and UT in the past. Kane questions Big Show's loyalty, and Show must continue to prove over and over again, that he has Kane's back. Plus anything to get the tag team division back up to speed can't hurt.

(Heh, get up to speed with Big Show & Kane, bad choice of words)



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Since: 11.1.02
From: st louis

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#18 Posted on
Welllllllllll..... to go along with that thought i hope the tag team division doesn't just slow down to the big slow's speed!



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Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
#19 Posted on
Originally posted by PalpatineW
Right on. People will definitely get behind Kane if the booking is right, but I don't know if he could convincingly carry the Heavyweight strap with his mic skills, and the limitations his gimmick puts on his mic skills. Though maybe with a manager of sorts he could. Hell, Vince has long associated himself with whatever heel is currently holding the belt, so why not Kane?



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As a matter fact, Vince did sort of manage Kane when he won his first title didn't he? I think i remember Vince sort of leading Undertaker and Kane vs. Stone Cold. Which is when the infamous clothesline off the zambonie came from. Kane only held the title a day though, so I don't they didn't really give it enough chance to see if it would work.



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Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 206 days
Last activity: 7 days
#20 Posted on
Kane can work with or without the mask. I prefer him with the mask right now, but I see no reason why he has to be saddled with it until the characters death. Taking off the mask though, has to be huge. There has to be a proper setup, and the storyline where he looses it has to be treated with the proper respect. Also, the writers would have to remember, that the mask has been there for Kane's whole life (in the WWF). In real life, Kane would have to reevaluate everything that his life has been like with that mask, and then try to move on and believe that he's an acceptable human being. If the writer's just did a feud where Kane lost his mask and the got plastic surgery so he could just play Kane Without the Mask, it would be pointless, and kill the character.

Currently, I think Kane works well with his mask, and his limited mic time. Three things need to be kept in mind when writing for Kane:
1) The Shrug, The Zombie Situp, the Head Tilt, and any other Kane Gestures need to be used and regularly, these are things that make the fans love Kane, and he cannot lose them.
2) Any time Kane talks it needs to go one of two ways: It either needs to be very short and to the point, or it needs to be an empassioned statement, with a lot of emotion to back it up (Kane's statements during his Summer 2000 heel run about being the hated monster and wanting to beat down the people who fear him and mock him by beating the people's champ for the title). None of this pointless talking like with Billy over the headband thing. Only Bill should've been talking during that segement, Kane with a head tilt would've been much funnier than "Do you know who I am?"
3) Kane (and a whole lot of other Main Eventers including UT and the Big Show) need motivation! Why the hell would Kane, being the monster that he is, not try to take the Undisputed Championship from Jericho? Everybody else wants the title. Rock, Austin, Angle, and Triple H are always after it, unless they get sidetracked with someone else, so why the hell are Bigshow, UT, and Kane just sitting on their asses? I think both Bigshow and Kane would work well together if they just went "We need to get some gold. We're tired of being put down, so now we'll crush the competition."

Anyway, I have to go to work, end Kane Rant

-Jaggles
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First off, to answer the big question on everyone's mind about Six Flags this week - Jillian showed up with a big band-aid on her face to cover up her Smackdown scar. Okay, the next question on everyone's mind would be, did the Boogeyman show up?
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