Originally posted by darkmatcherWhy is Trish taking an insane bump a highlight? Your favorite walking barbie doll falling to the floor and busting her mouth bloody is something that excites you? Now unless you're like me and just enjoy seeing living barbie dolls, who advanced up their position simply by looking good get hurt, I don't understand it.
Trish is a great bumper but she's not a great wrestler. Anyone can bump. Its amazing some people show more respect to good looking chicks than to actual wrestlers who've done something for this business(I don't just mean Nash here).
(edited by darkmatcher on 19.5.03 2210)
If he had said that a bump in the ladder match was great, would you be so pissed then? I think it's been established that fans think big bumps are highlights. That's pretty much the whole reason why they have matches like hell in a cell, cage matches, and the ladder matches in the first place. People are supposed to act like he did.
As far as the 'barbie dolls' comments, you can't tell me that the same thing doesn't go for men. Having a good 'look' is one of the things promoters look for, man or woman. To assume that Trish is *only* there because of her looks is assinine. She's got more wrestling talent than most of the women they have. Hell, a couple years ago we all went nuts because Sable learned a powerbomb! Now look at Trish and what she does in any given match and tell me that she hasn't raised the bar for what we should expect in a 'diva'.
Hey, I don't like Goldberg, although he's where he is because of his 'walking he-man' look (and less moves than Trish), but I don't enjoy seeing the guy get hurt though. That's just cold.
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I loved the ppv. Austin was a funny asshole, Bisch played along nicely. edit - forgot two backstage skits: jericho-piper was great, both got into each other and got their own agenda over. hurricane - mr. america was very funny!
The opening match was short, and sorta weird with Benoit having Cena tapping like the bitch he is (his rap SUCKED this time btw) while Spanky was getting pinned.
Steiner/Test vs La Resistance..well..didn't care about this match.
The Laddermatch started off slowly, as all guys were looking for something to do. I think it was Cole who said the great line 'Team Angle are mat wrestlers and are new to this, so they don't know how to use the ladder' match got good once Eddie took control, and the finish was nice. Good to see they took it easy and didn't kill themselves trying to recreate some of the more classic spots.
IC Battle Royal. Great, Val! (nice touch of switching to the box and Austin saying he hired him!) Didn't expect people to be thrown out so quickly. But it got good near the end. Goldie demanding a spinarooni and then trying to throw out Booker T who reversed it was great Liked the looks on both of their faces. Jericho/Christian was great too, nice crash to the outside by Jericho and look of shock on his face. And FUCK! can Christian look any bit more heelish. He clearly should have lost, then knocks out Patterson, Booker T and throws him out. I thought it was brilliant! Notice btw that Patterson did hesitate before walking towards the ring because he too knew that THE MATCH WAS NEVER OFFICIALLY OVER since the ref didnt acknowledge the win and had the bell rung!
Bikini match..One sign worded my thoughts exactly. Yum! (and the notion we saw them nekkid this isnt interesting is bullshit. Often pictures dont do a person justice, and even more often (a little) clothing is hotter than the bare facts.)
Piper vs Mr. America..Well..it was short, and the crowd liked it. Loved how they mentioned this is the PPV debut of Mr. America and that he and Piper would face each other for the first time.
HHH-Nash. Good to see BOTH men disregarded the ref all the time, making a dq a bit more plausible. Surprisingly the crowd sort of stayed into it after Flair/HBK were ejected. Nash on the offense a lot, HHH selling alright imo sort of slowed down the match and the crowd, but surprisingly the people did react to spots and come backs. (that or my SKY tape was tampered with) the powerbomb through the table looked pretty wicked.
Women's title match. Nice one. I stopped giving extra props to these matches just because they are the women. Trish, Victoria, Jazz and even Jacqueline have better skills then most men so why make extra note of it. Weird yet effective looking DDT on Jacky by Jazz. Bump to the outside by Trish was wicked.
Show vs Lesnar was sweet. They hardly spent any time in the ring, and tried to beat the shit out of each other. Rey's short appearance was nice and Brock's dive was good. The final was well done and kudos to Big Show for actually just lying there for dead that high. I would be scared something would break or fall
Good ppv. Despite poor build it delivered with interesting matches and decisions.
(edited by dMp on 21.5.03 0852) *sigh* Why bother?
Not as bad as it could have been. That's not saying much, but still...let's take what we can get. It wasn't "WCW bad".
Brock and Big Show was A LOT better than it had any right to be. I still don't like Big Show in the main event (and really, who does?), but this was the best match in their series so far. But what the hell was the point of Rey Mysterio coming in just to get killed?
There is a blessing in disguise to Chavo's injury. If this whole thing gets Tajiri some kind of push, I'm all for it. I'd look forward to a Chavo/Tajiri feud and an Eddie singles run somewhere down the line.
YES! It's time for a SERIOUS Christian push! If he doesn't get held down, he could be ready for a #1 heel role sometime very soon. Can you guys imagine there one day being a world title unification match between Christian and Edge? I could see that happening someday!
I never want to see Bischoff puking and I ESPECIALLY don't want to see replays!
Ok, so maybe all the other guys haven't worked, but will THIS be the man to save WWE???
Originally posted by PhantomSince there doesn’t seem to be much discussion of it – did anyone else actually watch it?
It's funny you ask that -- I usually go to see the PPV's at a local movie theater, a fairly popular decision in the Toronto area, because they're slightly cheaper than ordering the PPV event on cable. Usually the theater I frequent is packed with people, they do prize giveaways, etc. during commercial breaks on Heat, they sell food right in the theater -- wrestling PPV's are generally a big deal. But this past Sunday, they ended moving the event to a smaller screen, no food, prizes, etc. It was dead in there for the first time in oh, about a year since I've been going to these. To me, that's telling.
"The Rock also knows damn well, what in recent years the WCW Title has come to... Diamond Dallas Page? Booker T? The guy from Scream 2, the dog from Married with Children, the maid from the Jeffersons! Shane McMahon, this title is just like your sister, everybody gets a turn!"
--If he had said that a bump in the ladder match was great, would you be so pissed then?
Firstly I wasn't pissed. Just befuddled. And to answer the question, as long as no one was seriously hurt, then I wouldn't have made note. But Trish doesn't resemble anything of some jacked up stuntman. I don't even consider her a wrestler, more a subpar female athlete.
--People are supposed to act like he did. Again, seeing Trish doing it doesn't ring the same to me as seeing RVD or Matt Hardy doing it.
--As far as the 'barbie dolls' comments, you can't tell me that the same thing doesn't go for men. Having a good 'look' is one of the things promoters look for, man or woman.
But the look required of a man is one that is jacked up, muscular, one that makes him look convincing as a legitimate tough guy and a threat in the ring. Surely, these men are also expected to already possess some semblance of wrestling skill.
--To assume that Trish is *only* there because of her looks is assinine.
When she was hired back in early 2000, she had no wrestling skill. She was picked because of her work as a fitness model cover girl, and brought in as a valet, doing nothing more than Stacy Keibler does now. I don't recall a period of time where she busted her ass training to be thrown to the top of the women's wrestling division. Surely, not nearly as much skill is required of females. But even Victoria had to spend some time away to train before being brought in to compete.
--Hey, I don't like Goldberg, although he's where he is because of his 'walking he-man' look (and less moves than Trish), but I don't enjoy seeing the guy get hurt though. That's just cold.
Tell that to the people who constantly wish injury on my main man. I wasn't really serious about my comment wanting to see chicks get hurt. Seeing them take a pre-staged bump as a retaliation from the wrestlers for interfering in their matches is one thing, and it amuses me. Its like, 'you think you can play with the big boys, now you're really playing with them'. All part of the game.
Trish was trained by Ron Hutchison before she ever got signed by WWE. He's the same guy who trained Edge and Christian. She's said she always wanted to progress to a wrestler but didn't really believe she could be good at it until her match with Stephanie McMahon.
While rehabbing her ankle injury in the summer of 2001, she spent tons of time working with Dr Tom Prichard, working in the ring and watching hours of tapes.
You come across as bitter that someone that good looking actually puts a ton of work into getting better at her craft. I suggest you pop in a tape of one of the Sable matches from the mid 90's or even the Lita matches or early Trish matches to the current ones.
Edit: From Ron Hutchison's site (wrestlingtraining.com):
"...I wanted to get physical. I went to Sully's Gym in Toronto to learn to wrestle under the tutelage of Ron Hutchison, who trained Edge and Christian of the WWF.
When I first walked into the place it looked like the gym from the early Rocky movies...Ron didn't take me very seriously at first. He was like, "Here comes little blondie." But I worked my ass off and showed him that I was there to learn. My gymnastics background helped a lot. We trained two to three hours a day, four days a week for six months. Then I received offers from the WWF, WCW and ECW all within the space of a couple of weeks. It was an easy choice. I've always admired the WWF, their product and how they market it. I signed with them in November of '99. Ironically, I didn't have to try out like I thought I would. They knew Ron had trained me well."
Courtesy "Trish Stratus Star Profile (MuscleMag International; June 2001)
As for me saying Trish's bumps were one of the highlights of the night, actually I thought the entire match was one of the top highlight of the night with her bump being really the memorable spot. No it didn't "excite" me I even said it was "borderline too dangerous" and after seeing the replay I think it was too dangerous and if Trish (or any other woman for that matter) never do that spot again it would be fine with me (and no, blading is not a thing I want to see in diva matches)... Saying all that I respect her a ton for taking that bump, if she felt the need to make some sort of statement in that match or maybe do something to get the spotlight away from the SD women that really went over the top in their act. She did what she felt she had to do to get the Raw women some attention as well. Even if it was an ill advised bump, I respect her desire to take the bump.
As for her looks helping her, sure just like a guy look helps him. But her looks being her only quality is just ignorant. What you diss her for, is what she deserves most credit. She probably can call her own shots in the ring & say what she will or will not take, but she willing to take any move(which Molly said in an article on why she loves working with Trish). Jazz wants to double chicken-wing her and drop her on her face, Trish is cool with it. Victoria gives an hard chair shot to the head, Trish will take it. Molly's to throw Trish into steps, hell Trish might have suggested it... Someone who's on a cover this month of a major Canadian fashion magazine modeling the latest of versace(or as Kanyon say it Ver-say-se) and days later take the bumps she did on JD. I think it really shows everyone else think her beauty is important, but Trish herself views it as secondary to what she loves doing in the ring.
Sure Trish didn't "pay her dues"(but Angle or Rock didn't necessary do a 2 year tour of Japan before signing with the WWE, do we undermine them as well?) A stint in the minors might have done her good, but WWE wanted her on TV quick & probably expected her to be a valet who can on occasion bump. But it's been documented in 2000 she'd come to the arena early & ask if she can train with everyone else, when it wasn't even expected or asked for her to come early because she was only a valet. And that she worked harder then some other girls that were pegged as wrestlers at the time... This didn't happen overnight, in 2000 she easily jobbed to everyone on the roster, most 2001 she was allowed some offense but still lost more then she won. Just in late 2001 after the Chyna debacle & maybe Lita not progressing in the ring as much as they liked. They gave Trish a chance mostly because she can bump like crazy for Jazz
Saying "anybody can bump" is just silly, you can't just throw away the ability to bump and sell on a regular bases and especially as well as she does. Maybe anyone can sell, the problem is I've seen enough half-assed selling of the WallsofJericho and the crossface to notice Trish's selling of Jazz's STF is superior to 70% of the roster. Anyone can sell but the wanting to is the story here. I'd put her almost on top of the list of making it look like she's been in a real battle no matter what even after a win by grabbing her ribs or neck, selling the fight... Her offense could use a little work, it's a little shaky at times. But she's more the competent in the ring incorporating new moves and even more impressive new styles, I've seen her do a mat hold for hold style with Jazz @ Backlash and then do a quick striking style vs. Victoria. That's impresses me.
The only criticism I see is something she has no control over and that is she battling for the title for a while now. But they did push Jackie strong face for a while but the fans didn't bit on it, hell I've been asking for a Molly face turn and a run since the beginning of the year. But is it Trish's fault that hasn't happened?... But as her as #1 girl, I don't think she could have done a better job. She's a marketable woman who has used her star power to get the division as a whole over as much as possible and putting over strong a WWE-rookie Victoria and bumping hard for wrestling machine Jazz on a regular bases. And all the same time always talking highly of her opponents and fellow wrestling divas in mainstream interview.
And yes I do respect this good looking chick, I also respect other "chicks" on the roster(Ivory, Molly to name a few) and I also respect a whole lot of guys in the WWE sorry Nash isn't one of them. The whole booking WCW to the ground, while booking himself to be the first to beat Goldberg and being involved the the World Title finger poke change, all at the same time having in his contract not to work houseshows. Then jumping to WWE gets injured and comes back and leapfrogs everyone on the roster for 2 PPV World title matches because who he's friends with(the entire storyline is that they were backstage friends a decade ago) when he's obviously not prepared physically or character wise. Oh yeah also undermining his fellow workers by calling them "Vanilla Midgets" kind of rubs me the wrong way. Then again it might be just me
And no I wasn't offended at all with your comments. That's what's great about a messageboard you could throw in your comments and others could read it for what it is and judge what was written for themselves.
cause there's limits to our liberties. 'Least I hope and pray that there are, cause those liberal freaks go too far.
I'll crush all opposition to me And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay If he fights back, I'll say that he's gay
Diving more into the ratings is actually kind of interesting. From 411 The first hour did 4.0's for each quarter hour expect one which did a 4.1. The Shawn Michaels/Chris Jericho match started off hour two with a 4.3 and rose to a 4.