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The W - Current Events & Politics - Jose, can you see? (Page 2)
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EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

Since last post: 109 days
Last activity: 23 hours
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.06
Let me begin by admitting I'm a selfish bastard and claiming that I think that if you want to live here you should learn English.

That said, one of the things I find most admirable about the Constitution and the nature of our government is that there is no 'national language' specified. The most important aspect of our government is personal freedom and the pursuit of happiness and a protection from persecution, and all of that is completely independent of language. Should the population change to become a majority of Spanish speakers, then the government has the ability to adjust the language federal documents are printed in to reflect that. Its not about where you're from so much as it is that you respect certain inalienable rights. To me, that's awesome.

I wonder if anyone's tried to translate the anthem into Klingon. How might that come out?
Oliver
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02

Since last post: 1722 days
Last activity: 1715 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.69
I've always been under the impression that the US had two official languages: English and Spanish. Heck, I have a number of atlases, and a wall map that suggest the same thing.



"At the end of every hard-earned day, people find some reason to believe." -- Bruce Springsteen
Teapot
Kishke








Since: 1.8.02
From: Louisville KY

Since last post: 265 days
Last activity: 261 days
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41
The federal government has designated no "official" language. However, most of the residents of the country speak either English or Spanish, so obviously it makes sense to print most of your documents in one or both of those languages.



Cerebus
Scrapple








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 868 days
Last activity: 589 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.97
    Originally posted by EddieBurkett
    I wonder if anyone's tried to translate the anthem into Klingon. How might that come out?


...you do NOT want to go THERE, trust me on this.

The problem I see is not that these people want the United Ststes National Anthem to be in spanish. It's that they want to come here and sway this country into what they want it to be... not to come here and become a part of the country as it already is.

If you want to get away from the country you live in so badly, why are you so adamant to make making your life here the same as it was where you left? Shouldn't you be trying to be a part of this country, and not getting the people already here to hate you?

(Why do I post shit when I can't seem to type out what's in my head, where it doesn't make me look like an ass?)
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 2303 days
Last activity: 2263 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.12
    Originally posted by Teapot
    The federal government has designated no "official" language. However, most of the residents of the country speak either English or Spanish, so obviously it makes sense to print most of your documents in one or both of those languages.

Can you stop there though? Part of the reason of government is to protect the rights of the minority. In my school district growing up, for example, they printed out all official documents in English, Spanish, and Hmong, as there was a sizable Hmong population in the city. For the school district, it made since. For a nation of 300 million people, printing everything necessary into every possible language gets a little difficult.



In the real world, WWE believes that no matter what our race, religious creed or ethnic background in America, we all share the common bond of being Americans. American-Arabs are a part of the fabric of America, and they should be embraced by all of us.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 2330 days
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.39
As long as the spanish version doesn't dramatically deviate from the English version, I have no problem with it. If words aren't translatable and need to be slightly adjusted, that happens when changing from one language to another. However, if entire sections of the song are rewritten, then the problems begin.
Of course, if people just stuck with the instrumental version, it would at least prevent the interpretative/bad versions of the anthem from being sung.
Going on a tangent, while we have a discussion on how the anthem should be sung, how God Bless America should be sung should also be looked at. The Kate Smith version is the perfect version. Only good thing ever associated with the Philadelphia Flyers is Kate Smith and her God Bless America. The 27 minute rain delay version sung during the 7th inning stretch at Yankee Stadium should lead to the performer being sent to Rikers Island.

(edited by redsoxnation on 30.4.06 2219)
AWArulz
Scrapple








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 8 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.63
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    Going on a tangent, while we have a discussion on how the anthem should be sung, how God Bless America should be sung should also be looked at. The Kate Smith version is the perfect version.


Personally, I suggest the Marvin Gaye version

http://avc.blogs.com/a_vc/files/marvin_gaye_national_anthem.mp3




We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

Since last post: 1364 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.48
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    The problem I see is not that these people want the United Ststes National Anthem to be in spanish. It's that they want to come here and sway this country into what they want it to be... not to come here and become a part of the country as it already is.

    If you want to get away from the country you live in so badly, why are you so adamant to make making your life here the same as it was where you left? Shouldn't you be trying to be a part of this country, and not getting the people already here to hate you?

I can't come up with a friendly way of saying this is a completely absurd sentiment. They're coming to the United States, a country with no official language that is founded on principles of freely accepting foreigners as its own citizens. "[B]ecom[ing] a part of the country as it already is" is extremely elitist. And it doesn't really make sense in this context as there is no official language here.

- StingArmy
AWArulz
Scrapple








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 8 days
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.63
Is SPF reading this? He probably well knows that there are thousands upon thousands of Poles in Chicago that do not or barely speak english. Many of them work in the Janitorial trade (they tend to dominate the union in Chicago). While I picked up how to write trash in Polish on my trash (it's like scazi or something - it's been 12 yrs), I never heard of the Poles in Chicago thinking about, much less translating the National Anthem into Polish.

And these were (seemingly) good Americans. Very good Americans. They just seemed to have little desire to learn English.

I wonder why there's a difference?




We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 3838 days
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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.37
Maybe there's a large quotient of Spanish-speaking immigrants who want to be able to sing the National Anthem to honour their adoptive country, but have neither the time nor resources to learn English as a second tongue? It's as good an explanation as any.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
RYDER FAKIN
Six Degrees of Me








Since: 21.2.02
From: ORLANDO

Since last post: 162 days
Last activity: 13 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.74
AWArulz: And these were (seemingly) good Americans. Very good Americans. They just seemed to have little desire to learn English.

I wonder why there's a difference?


A: RACISM*

* - ™CRZ

FLEA

(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 1.5.06 1257)


Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high

1ryderfakin.com - THE IWC 100! And The Wrestling Dead Pool!! - next cash prize is $200! PLAY TO WIN!!!
Nag
Landjager








Since: 10.1.03
From: Enter your city here

Since last post: 4028 days
Last activity: 2083 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.51
Racism, is naming your national day of protest, "Stop gringo day", which of course most media sources aren't reporting. I'm sure that wouldn't be the case if there were a counter protest entitled "Stop wetback day".

On a related note, today just happened to be trash pick-up in my neighborhood, and my trash is gone. I took the liberty and called wal-mart and they are still open. Hell's Bells, I guess Americans work these jobs. Whatever happens in the American southwest today is thier own damn fault.



"A guy from Ohio can make it in life if he works hard enough."--Woody Hayes
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 1477 days
Last activity: 24 days
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.57
    Originally posted by AWArulz
    Is SPF reading this? He probably well knows that there are thousands upon thousands of Poles in Chicago that do not or barely speak english. Many of them work in the Janitorial trade (they tend to dominate the union in Chicago). While I picked up how to write trash in Polish on my trash (it's like scazi or something - it's been 12 yrs), I never heard of the Poles in Chicago thinking about, much less translating the National Anthem into Polish.

    And these were (seemingly) good Americans. Very good Americans. They just seemed to have little desire to learn English.

    I wonder why there's a difference?

"Trash-Throw Out" is "wyrzuc smiecie" according to the handy stickers we have here at the office. At this point the janitorial trade is pretty well split between the Mexican and Polish here in Chicago. Hence all the stickers being in both Spanish and Polish.

I've been reading this thread, but not saying much because I don't have a lot to add. I think this is a very bad political move, especially the part of adding lines to the Anthem. If it were just a translation oldschoolhero might be onto something, and people would be more accepting. But when you, quoting from the Guardian "[Kidron] now plan to record a second Spanish version of The Star-Spangled Banner...that changes many more of the lyrics in order to reflect immigrants' hard work and contribution to the economy." suddenly you turn it from an issue of language and attempting to show patriotism to hijacking an American tradition for your own cultural purposes, which I cannot see flying very well here.

I feel like this is in some ways analagous to the gay marriage movement a few years back, where people were willing to just sort of let the issue be dealt with in the background, but by forcing the issue as strongly as is being done lately people are going to choose sides, and the sides they choose might turn out to be harsher than the pro-immigration movement is hoping for. We're not as a country in a very welcoming mood to outsiders right now, and telling us we have to accept these people on their terms may play right into the hands of the anti-immigration folks.

Personally, I understand where they're coming from. Parts of my family made the same trek that illegals are making nowadays. But lots of things that might have been okay in 1920 are not okay anymore. Unchecked illegal immigration is one of those things.

As a side note, all the Mexicans who work in my building seem to have made it in to work today, and were more interested in talking about the White Sox than they were in shutting down our work.





Now I'll never be able to lead SPF's spfers! (The W)
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 1027 days
Last activity: 568 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.42

    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
    FWIW, the translated lyrics from the Spanish version of the national anthem


And if you go to Babelfish and translate it into Spanish, English, French, English, Spanish and English again you get this:

Next to the light of the rise of the day, is seen presenting/displaying, that it hailed proud in the twilight the last autumn? Their stars, their bandage worked yesterday in the wild combat an emblem that ignited the victory and the fight towards the freedom. With the night, they proclaimed: "he will defend to us" Dígame! Its filter starry of the beauty shakes in the Earth of the free flag, crowned? Its stars, its bandage, freedom, we are equal. We are brothers in our hymn. In the wild combat, an emblem that ignites the victory and the fight towards the freedom. My fight of people ignited. The time came to break the chains. With the night they proclaimed, "we will defend it" Dígame! Its filter starry of the beauty shakes in the Earth of the free flag, crowned?



As of 2/28/05: 101 pounds since December 7, 2004
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As of 2/27/06: 202 pounds "I've lost a heavyweight"
As of 4/17/06: 210 pounds

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DrDirt
Banger








Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 753 days
Last activity: 655 days
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.95
Both sides of this issue, immigrants and the rest of us, are guilty of using each other. The chest thumping indignation of some is so much bs. The illegals are, you know, illegal. Many of the throw the felons out crowd benefit greatly from the "illegals". And instead of both sides trying to figure out what we can do, we have all this crap.

Spf, it is also analogous to the abortion issue, lots of chest thumping but no one with the will to tackle the issue and eliminate the need.

Something lost in the shuffle, is that no matter how they got here, these "illegals" are people. And as I point out every chance I get, The 9/11 murderers didn't hop the border but walked in with papers.



Perception is reality
AWArulz
Scrapple








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 8 days
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.63
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    And as I point out every chance I get, The 9/11 murderers didn't hop the border but walked in with papers.


Actually, Doc, they did walk in with papers, but by 9/11, some were lapsed and some had falsified their papers to get in. As some other illegals do as well.(http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecentersc582 has the 9/11 terrorists' status)








We'll be back right after order has been restored here in the Omni Center.
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I thought the article was going to be about this Al Gore, the one getting all weepy-weepy and boo-hooing in interviews. But seriously, everything I've heard from Al Gore lately has been long on criticism and short on answers.
- Bizzle Izzle, I changed my mind (2002)
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