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The W - Current Events & Politics - John F'in Kerry
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Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
WASHINGTON - John Kerry (news - web sites) used profane language to assess President Bush (news - web sites)'s Iraq (news - web sites) policy, and Bush's chief of staff said Sunday the Democratic presidential candidate was out of line.

The Massachusetts senator uttered a profanity in an interview in the latest Rolling Stone magazine to express his dismay over Bush's handling of Iraq.

When asked in the interview about the success of rival candidate Howard Dean (news - web sites), whose anti-war message has resounded with supporters, Kerry responded: "When I voted for the war, I voted for what I thought was best for the country. Did I expect Howard Dean to go off to the left and say, `I'm against everything?' Sure. Did I expect George Bush to f--- it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did."

The expletive drew a rebuke from White House, which suggested an apology might be in order.

"That's beneath John Kerry," the president's chief of staff, Andrew Card, said on CNN's "Late Edition."

"I'm very disappointed that he would use that kind of language," Card said. "I'm hoping that he's apologizing at least to himself, because that's not the John Kerry that I know."

The Kerry campaign said the Massachusetts senator had no regrets.

"John Kerry saw combat up close, and he doesn't mince words when it comes to politicians who put ideological recklessness ahead of American troops," said spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter. "I think the American people would rather Card and the rest of the White House staff spend more time on fixing Bush's flawed policy in Iraq than on Sen. Kerry's language."

On the 62nd anniversary of the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, Kerry laid a wreath in remembrance at the Navy base in Coronado, Calif., where he trained before shipping out to Vietnam, where he was wounded and was awarded the Silver Star and Bronze Star with combat V. Kerry, a swift boat commander in the war, was joined by his daughter, Vanessa, and two crew mates who served with him in Southeast Asia.


Once again, the Bush White House concentrates on any little thing that detracts from the big picture. Frankly, I think it's refreshing to hear a politician say something that doesn't sound like it came straight from a teleprompter.



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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Once again, the Bush White House concentrates on any little thing that detracts from the big picture.
Since when do they forfeit their right to react to a comment? A senator dropping an F bomb is kinda a big deal - one would hope they WOULDN'T ignore it.

Besides, did Card DEMAND to come on CNN and say what he said, or did CNN come looking for the comment? Your quoted article (by the way, a source and hyperlink would be nice next time) doesn't provide that context.


    Frankly, I think it's refreshing to hear a politician say something that doesn't sound like it came straight from a teleprompter.
There are many varied and mostly better ways to make your point without resorting to profanity like that. Kerry IS out of line. Good for the White House to take him to task.

I wonder, will this "story" will have any legs? My hunch is Kerry is too far behind for this to look like anything but a desperate cry for attention, so....probably not. I guess we'll find out on tomorrow's news.



CRZ
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Since: 20.2.03

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.03
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Once again, the Bush White House concentrates on any little thing that detracts from the big picture. Frankly, I think it's refreshing to hear a politician say something that doesn't sound like it came straight from a teleprompter.

It's not so simple. Do you want Bush to come back by saying, "Listen John Kerry, you peacenick Bitch, we are gonna ass rape you in '04!"?

Politicians are supposed to be civilized. They can't deteriorate to that level of mudslinging.



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Since: 6.11.03
From: Dudleyville

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.35
It's an accepted rule of business negotiations: First person to curse, loses. And just like the "Hate Bush" party last week, it only rallies the people that were already going to vote for him. It does nothing to gain any new support and may actually cost him support of some of his older constituents.

Since we're on a wrestling board, let's sum up the Senator's campaign with one of its more well-known phrases: "Stick a fork in Kerry... he's done".



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OlFuzzyBastard
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Since: 28.4.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98
Bush, like all real Americans, would never use profanity, and anyone who would ever suggest otherwise must be some kind of major league asshole from the New York Times. Oh yeah, big time.

It wasn't an important story then, and it's not an important story now. Oooh, John Kerry said the eff word! What is this, third grade? Big fucking deal.
CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    Bush, like all real Americans, would never use profanity, and anyone who would ever suggest otherwise must be some kind of major league asshole from the New York Times. Oh yeah, big time.
That's an *extremely* weak counter. Got any on the record stuff to throw?

Reference (dir.salon.com)

By the way, "everybody does it" usually doesn't work as a defense of unprofessional behaviour - at least, with enough of the electorate that it still makes a difference. (My opinion)


    It wasn't an important story then, and it's not an important story now. Oooh, John Kerry said the eff word! What is this, third grade? Big fucking deal.
Like you, I eagerly await the day when all politicians routinely curse during interviews for your vote.

(edited by CRZ on 7.12.03 1730)


CRZ
Grimis
Scrapple








Since: 11.7.02
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.29
I'm willing to bet Kerry planned to do it. Kerry is a has been now. He can't win, and needs something like this to make him relevant again. Dean, Clark, hell, even Gephardt and Edwards, are in better shape than Kerry. Kerry could conceivably win no primaries, and even Sharpton has a chance at one or two.

Kerry is desperate, and this was a planned desperation move. Beneath a US Senator, regardless of party.



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Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.36
He's 32 down in a neighboring state. He's irrelevant.



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Since: 28.4.02
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98
"Fuck Saddam. We're taking him out."
---George W. Bush, March 2002

(edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 7.12.03 2202)
CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    "Fuck Saddam. We're taking him out."
    ---George W. Bush, March 2002

    (edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 7.12.03 2202)
Well, gee, that wasn't on the record either. I'm not going to repeat myself, so feel free to scroll up and see what I said after your last post.



CRZ
DrDirt
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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.52
    Originally posted by Grimis
    I'm willing to bet Kerry planned to do it. Kerry is a has been now. He can't win, and needs something like this to make him relevant again. Dean, Clark, hell, even Gephardt and Edwards, are in better shape than Kerry. Kerry could conceivably win no primaries, and even Sharpton has a chance at one or two.

    Kerry is desperate, and this was a planned desperation move. Beneath a US Senator, regardless of party.


the world is ending, I agree with Zgrimis twice in one day. Sorry about that. I know Rush has been liking him to the French looking John Kerry. I really think this was a way to make him look tough and like a real man.

Shotgun is right. We here expect and like passion in our pols but with a certain level of correctness. We expect pols to disagree and argue but still refer to that sob as "my distinguished colleague" or the Honorable Senator from." That is where I thought we were light years ahead of the British Parliment.



Perception is reality
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.08
1) He didn't call Bush a fuck. Would it be better if he had simply called the war with Iraq FUBAR?

2) Hey, it works for me. Kerry so far hasn't shown me much, but this at least gets me to pay a little bit more attention to him. Why? Because as rehearsed/planned as that comment sounded, it still sounded more real than anything else coming out of either party.

3) Bush's Chief of Staff sounds like an ass. Asking for an apology? He should have said, "Comments like that are beneath the Senate, and are beneath the White House. Unfortunately they do not seem to be beneath Mr. Kerry." That would've been a direct hit. But asking for an apology because he used a swear word to qualify his opinion? Ridiculous. And Stephanie Cutter's quote is an excellent slash back at the White House.

So yeah, Kerry's comment works for me. Next he needs to flip off Bush and tell him to get the hell out of the White House, cause "John Kerry said so! And that's the bottom line!"

That'll get him the 18-34 year old vote.

-Jag



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Since: 9.1.02
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.64
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Like you, I eagerly await the day when all politicians routinely curse during interviews for your vote.


In a purely Bizarro-world/morbid curiousity sort of way, I would LOVE to see a race like that. But only for the entertainment value, and preferably from a considerable distance.

It is pretty unprofessional. I mean, I'm perfectly okay with cursing in a "casual" environment, if that's how you want to express yourself, but when you're on the job and dealing with people it's just not done.

Then again, times change... a few years ago a lot of the stuff that's getting said and done now would be career ending. A few races from now we could be looking back on Kerry as a trend-setter. :)



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A-MOL
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Since: 26.6.02
From: York, England

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.31
It's pretty funny reading this, considering that the only time John Major got respect from a lot of people in this country was when he accidently got filmed calling the people plotting against him "a bunch of bastards".



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Since: 27.6.02

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.55
    Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
    "Fuck Saddam. We're taking him out."
    ---George W. Bush, March 2002

    (edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 7.12.03 2202)


Any faithful reader of Bob Woodward knows that Bush the first and Clinton both said fuck, shit, etc. etc. in the White House. I don't hold any ill regard for either or for George W. Bush for swearing--why? It was in a private context. Kerry was swearing in a public forum that can be seen by everyone. A president swearing in front of his advisiors--Clinton vehemently shouting Shit when he saw OJ won the trial for example, is no big deal, since it is private. But to the public, presidents and presidental candidates, despite what might seem "cool", should show respect and honestly be above swearing in public.



"I wear it for the thousands who have died, believen' that the Lord was on their side. I wear it for another hundred thousand who have died, believen' that we all were on their side." RIP Johnny Cash



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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.52
    Originally posted by Jaguar
    1) He didn't call Bush a fuck. Would it be better if he had simply called the war with Iraq FUBAR?

    2) Hey, it works for me. Kerry so far hasn't shown me much, but this at least gets me to pay a little bit more attention to him. Why? Because as rehearsed/planned as that comment sounded, it still sounded more real than anything else coming out of either party.

    3) Bush's Chief of Staff sounds like an ass. Asking for an apology? He should have said, "Comments like that are beneath the Senate, and are beneath the White House. Unfortunately they do not seem to be beneath Mr. Kerry." That would've been a direct hit. But asking for an apology because he used a swear word to qualify his opinion? Ridiculous. And Stephanie Cutter's quote is an excellent slash back at the White House.

    So yeah, Kerry's comment works for me. Next he needs to flip off Bush and tell him to get the hell out of the White House, cause "John Kerry said so! And that's the bottom line!"

    That'll get him the 18-34 year old vote.

    -Jag


Jag, the guy says fuck and you have increaed interest in him? It's like when my wife curses, it seems silly not firey because its out of place and context. To me Kerry just looked desperate. Plus the American public, right or wrong, really doesn't want the pols to be like us but need to feel they are better than us on some level. They know they curse in private, but expect them to act "superior" and somewhat above the fray in public.



Perception is reality
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.34
I would love Bush's retort to be:

WHen asked about Kerry's Campain to say "Did I expect John Kerry to f--- it up as badly as he did? I don't think anybody did."
FurryHippie
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Since: 29.10.02
From: New York

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.81
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by OlFuzzyBastard
      "Fuck Saddam. We're taking him out."
      ---George W. Bush, March 2002

      (edited by OlFuzzyBastard on 7.12.03 2202)
    Well, gee, that wasn't on the record either. I'm not going to repeat myself, so feel free to scroll up and see what I said after your last post.


Feel free to rip me a new one if I'm wrong here, but wasn't Bush caught ON CAMERA saying something to the effect of "watch out, this guy is an asshole" under his breath? I'm not sure the situation and I don't have references, but if this is correct you'll remember it too. I believe that should count.

Also, there's a big difference between using fuck to say "fuck it up" and using fuck to say "fuck you". I would agree he was out of line if he said "Bush is a fucking idiot", but I don't think his comment was nearly as severe.

    Originally posted by CRZ
    I eagerly await the day when all politicians routinely curse during interviews for your vote.


I think this is taking the whole situation and blowing it up. Just like you and I, politicians shouldn't be lambasted for letting a curse slip once in a while - they aren't robots. But, just like you and I, there is a point where you draw the line. I say fuck, shit, and asshole...but I'm hardly using them every day in every social situation I come in. I agree with OldFuzzyBastard - he said "fuck" once in public. Big "fucking" deal. I don't look at him as a foul mouthed lowlife, and it would be dumb to do that just because of a minute comment.
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.15
Somewhere Howard Dean is smiling and saying "Oh, so I'm the one who's supposed to have trouble watching his mouth on the mic?"



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Since: 7.2.02

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.59
(deleted by Leroy on 8.12.03 1448)
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Give Saddam some credit: Even with Baghdad being bombed constantly, its still a safer place to be than Detroit.
- redsoxnation, Hussein an Honorary Michigander (2003)
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