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17.12.14 1539
The W - Football - John Carney: D'oh!
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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.22
Saints get miracle TD, then miss PAT to lose

I wonder if his teammates made him take the flight back with the luggage.

(edited by JayJayDean on 21.12.03 1514)


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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
Who says they'd score first in overtime?

EDIT: If you haven't heard the audio from WWL-AM, ESPN Radio's been playing it every chance they get. No foolin', it's HILARIOUS.

(edited by CRZ on 21.12.03 1619)


CRZ
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Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
If I can be serious for a minute...
If I were John Carney, I would've skipped the locker room and taken a cab to the furthest place I could think of at that moment. The Saints probably felt like using Carney to reenact that Simpsons Super Bowl episode where everybody took turns kicking Homer in the ass.

"AND HERE'S COMES THE KICK....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..."

"OWWWWWWWWW!"






BASTARD!
DrewDewce
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Derby City

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.75
I called it right before it happened too. Room full of relatives, and I said, "the only way for this to end is for them to miss the PAT." The room erupted when it happened and woke up quite a few nieces and cousins who were napping upstairs.

My wife said, "if football was that exciting every week, I'd be able to enjoy it so much more." Of course, in the 5 years we've known each other, we've seen the Music City Miracle, and now this.



"You have the right to suffer. You have the right to feel pain. If you wish to have an attorney present, I'll hurt him too!" - The Big Bossman
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.71
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Saints had won today wouldn't they have had to win their last game AND have a lot of help to get into the playoffs?

Being a big Jags fan, I just can't believe that lateral stuff happened. The missed kick reminds me of '97 (I think) when Morten Andersen, one of the best kickers in NFL history, missed a chip-shot field goal that would've won the game for the Falcons and kept the Jags out of the playoffs. With the win, they went to the playoffs, and to the AFC Championship game.
Swordsman Yen
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Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
If I can be serious for a minute...
With Dallas and Seattle winning their games today, the Saints would've been eliminated from the playoffs anyway. Still it has to be heartbreaking for Saints fans to have their hopes up on an unbelievable play only to see them dashed on a missed PAT.

Oh well, all that matters are the Cowboys are in the tournament, baby. WHOOOOOOOOO!



BASTARD!
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Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.60
And Vince McMahon says PAT's are boring and a waste of time




Christmas is the one time of year when people of all religions come together to worship Jesus Christ. - Bart Simpson
JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.15
That summed up the Saints' season in two plays, I thought.



If Martha Stewart's obituary had a typo in it, would it read "Beloved Aunt"?
The 5th Horseman
Kolbasz








Since: 23.10.02
From: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

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#9 Posted on
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
    That summed up the Saints' season in two plays, I thought.

That summed up the Saints entire NFL history!


As a Cowboys fan, I hope that deflates the Saints for their final game next weekend.
MARTYEWR
Kishke








Since: 15.10.02

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
Somehow I'm guessing that if the Saints won, Haslett would've talked about the touchdown in the post-game interview and said, "Yep, just the way we designed it." :)



Martin Kipp: Creative Member, Extreme Warfare Revenge

Wiener Of The Day: Tuesday, March 4, 2003
Wiener Of The Day (2): Wednesday, October 29, 2003

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Cheesehead
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Since: 24.10.03
From: WI, now in the land of the Vikings...*shudder*

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.80
    Originally posted by geemoney
    The missed kick reminds me of '97 (I think) when Morten Andersen, one of the best kickers in NFL history, missed a chip-shot field goal that would've won the game for the Falcons and kept the Jags out of the playoffs. With the win, they went to the playoffs, and to the AFC Championship game.


Actually...my first thought was:

Wide right?? Scott Norwood!!!!

Sorry Buffalo fans, didn't mean to bring up bad memories!!



RIP Irvin Favre (1945-2003)
My thoughts and prayers are with Brett & his family.
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.31
    Originally posted by Submit2theXFace
      Originally posted by geemoney
      The missed kick reminds me of '97 (I think) when Morten Andersen, one of the best kickers in NFL history, missed a chip-shot field goal that would've won the game for the Falcons and kept the Jags out of the playoffs. With the win, they went to the playoffs, and to the AFC Championship game.


    Actually...my first thought was:

    Wide right?? Scott Norwood!!!!

    Sorry Buffalo fans, didn't mean to bring up bad memories!!

Seeing as thought I live in Western New York, that probably should've been MY first thought, too, though I was about 6 or 7 when it happened.
The King of Keith
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Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.48
That, without a shadow of a doubt was the greatest seven seconds of football I've ever seen.

Didn't they say Carney was 403 out of 408 on PAT's??? Hell of a time to miss one!



Amazingly enough, the most Redskin-like play in football happened to New Orleans this week. Saints fans, I feel your pain.
Eddie Famous
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Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25

This is WHY you have the two-point conversion in pro football now.

You play to win the freaking game, not tie and have the game decided by a coin flip. The Saints opted for the chicken-shit one pointer after the greatest play in the history of their franchise...they deserved what they got.

If I was coach, I'd rather lose fighting to win than lose fighting to tie....





"In the sky. Lord, in the sky..."
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.22
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    This is WHY you have the two-point conversion in pro football now.

    You play to win the freaking game, not tie and have the game decided by a coin flip. The Saints opted for the chicken-shit one pointer after the greatest play in the history of their franchise...they deserved what they got.

    If I was coach, I'd rather lose fighting to win than lose fighting to tie....




That is a load of CRAP. The extra-point conversion rate for all kickers (even the crappy ones who've been cut) was 98.4% (985/1001) going into the weekend, and that includes blocked kicks. I believe the 2-point percentage rate is around 40%, or less than the odds of the coin flip, which the Saints could've just as easily won as lost. You're telling me you'd pass up a sure tie (not in retrospect, but at the time with you kicker who hasn't missed a PAT since '99) for a less than even chance on the deuce?

If I'm your owner and you go for two in that situation with the playoffs possibly on the line I'm firing you in the locker room after the game. End of story.



To get ass, youve got to bring ass." -- Roy Jones Jr.

"Your input has been noted.
I hope you don't take it personally if I disregard it." -- Guru Zim
MARTYEWR
Kishke








Since: 15.10.02

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by Submit2theXFace
      Originally posted by geemoney
      The missed kick reminds me of '97 (I think) when Morten Andersen, one of the best kickers in NFL history, missed a chip-shot field goal that would've won the game for the Falcons and kept the Jags out of the playoffs. With the win, they went to the playoffs, and to the AFC Championship game.


    Actually...my first thought was:

    Wide right?? Scott Norwood!!!!

    Sorry Buffalo fans, didn't mean to bring up bad memories!!


Grrr...



Martin Kipp: Creative Member, Extreme Warfare Revenge

Wiener Of The Day: Tuesday, March 4, 2003
Wiener Of The Day (2): Wednesday, October 29, 2003

"Because I'm the man, and the man's the man, and that's just the way it is!" -- Eric Foreman, That 70s Show
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25

    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      This is WHY you have the two-point conversion in pro football now.

      You play to win the freaking game, not tie and have the game decided by a coin flip. The Saints opted for the chicken-shit one pointer after the greatest play in the history of their franchise...they deserved what they got.

      If I was coach, I'd rather lose fighting to win than lose fighting to tie....




    That is a load of CRAP. The extra-point conversion rate for all kickers (even the crappy ones who've been cut) was 98.4% (985/1001) going into the weekend, and that includes blocked kicks. I believe the 2-point percentage rate is around 40%, or less than the odds of the coin flip, which the Saints could've just as easily won as lost. You're telling me you'd pass up a sure tie (not in retrospect, but at the time with you kicker who hasn't missed a PAT since '99) for a less than even chance on the deuce?

    If I'm your owner and you go for two in that situation with the playoffs possibly on the line I'm firing you in the locker room after the game. End of story.


If you were the owner and didn't want me to try to win the game rather than tie, I'd quit. IT DOESNT MATTER what the percentage rate of 1XPs are in that situation. You lose the freaking coin toss, you lose the game, thats about a 50% chance to win the game. You go for two, it's just a bit less and there's no "luck of the flip" involved.

I want my TEAM to win it, not some coin.


(edited by Eddie Famous on 22.12.03 2043)


"In the sky. Lord, in the sky..."
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.22
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    You lose the freaking coin toss, you lose the game, thats about a 50% chance to win the game.


1. That's not a true statement. Not EVERY team that loses the coin toss loses the game, the figure is about 65-70%.

2. It's not about "trying to win. vs. not trying to win." It's about using sound judgment and giving your team the best chance to win. Would you go for it on EVERY fourth-down? Of course not, because that would be poor judgment. If the Saints get the tie and win the toss they have a better than average chance to win, most likely even better than normal due to the emotional circumstances in which they scored the touchdown.

3. I've yet to see the pundit who has taken Haslett to task for eschewing the two-pointer in favor of the kick.

The two-point conversion was NOT added to be the deciding play at the end of the game. It WAS added to give teams a better chance to come from behind and to add an element of strategy to an area of the game where there had previosly been none.



To get ass, youve got to bring ass." -- Roy Jones Jr.

"Your input has been noted.
I hope you don't take it personally if I disregard it." -- Guru Zim
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.25

    Originally posted by JayJayDean
      Originally posted by Eddie Famous
      You lose the freaking coin toss, you lose the game, thats about a 50% chance to win the game.


    1. That's not a true statement. Not EVERY team that loses the coin toss loses the game, the figure is about 65-70%


So, you have a 50% chance at having a 70% chance to win the game (by winning the toss), or a 50% chance at a 30% chance to win the game (by losing the toss).

OR, I have a chance to win the game by trusting my team and my offense to move the ball three yards. (By your account, about 40%)

Give me the ball, and the overwhelming momentum of the situation. I'll take that chance 100%. Let my team win or lose right there.



"In the sky. Lord, in the sky..."
EddieBurkett
Boudin blanc








Since: 3.1.02
From: GA in person, NJ in heart

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.61
    Originally posted by Eddie Famous
    So, you have a 50% chance at having a 70% chance to win the game (by winning the toss), or a 50% chance at a 30% chance to win the game (by losing the toss).

    OR, I have a chance to win the game by trusting my team and my offense to move the ball three yards. (By your account, about 40%)

    Give me the ball, and the overwhelming momentum of the situation. I'll take that chance 100%. Let my team win or lose right there.


During the Eagles overtime, the stat given was 66% of teams who win the coin toss win the game.

In overtime, you have a 50% chance of having a 66% chance of winning the game, but you also have a 50% chance of having a 34% chance of winning the game.

.5 x .66 + .5 x .34 = .50

So in the end, you have a 50% chance of winning the game, which is statistically better than a 40% chance to win the game on the conversion.

However, the key to the stats is "all other things being equal." If one team is "better" than another, I think that would skew the stats. So the question is ultimately whether or not you think your team, in competing with the other team, is better than the stats.

Ultimately, the coin is not the fatal device. Did I use that word right?





If you're reading this, the tide was in.
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