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The W - Pro Wrestling - Jericho Must Retain On Sunday (Page 2)
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Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 1 day
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#21 Posted on
Jericho beat Rock and Austin. Multiple times. HHH needed the titles to wrap up his storyline. Plus, people are getting pretty sick of heels leaving WM as champion. So, HHH SHOULD and DID win at Mania. Jericho had a good long run as champ, he's established enough that nobody'll blink if he wins the title again.



These mini Reeses cup things are addictive...
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1799 days
Last activity: 1733 days
#22 Posted on
And who did get the ball in their first run? Triple H (lost to Vince McMahon)? The Rock (jobbed to Foley and kept the belt on a Dusty Finish)? Kurt Angle (HTM of WWF Champions)?

The fact is that Jericho has been given MUCH MUCH more than, say, Kurt Angle in his first title reign. Jericho takes it to the MAIN EVENT of WrestleMania, put above people such as Rock and Austin, AND the nWo. So what if he loses? He got major league exposure last night and he didn't look woefully out of his depth in the process.

Every new main eventer is a constant work in progress. The Rock wasn't really over 'til he got jobbed out to Austin and turned face. Trips only got over as a ME thanks to the selflessness of Mick Foley. Jericho has been handed more opportunities than BOTH those guys-and what has happened? Look at the No Way Out match. He's in there with Steve Austin, arguably the company's biggest face. What should have been an electrifying match was nothing special at all, even BEFORE the nWo nonsense. But I guess the blame for that lays squarely on Austin's shoulders.

Regardless of interviews, angles, etc. etc., Jericho has rarely looked like a major star when it matters-in the ring. To be honest, it's a wonder the WWF didn't choke and give Austin the title at NWO, considering the lack of interest in Jericho.

And to address your points about Shawn, he only became a threat as a plucky underdog face fighting against unstoppable dickhead heels. NOT Jericho's role at all.



Hey Yo.....................I'm DRUNK.
Eradicator
Kolbasz








Since: 4.1.02
From: Chicago

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 18 min.
#23 Posted on

    Originally posted by Texas Kelly
    You could have made the same comments about Shawn Michaels as champion because of his size. People bought into Shawn because he could work (which Jericho can do) and because the creative team MADE HIM A THREAT.


I don't think casual fans really bought into Michaels. WE loved him, but we digg Jericho too. Look at the WWF when HBK was champ, they weren't exactly selling out dome shows then. He was a great champ, and he will always be one of MY favorites, but casual fans will always prefer the guys like Austin, Rock, Hogan, etc. I just don't think people bought into him either.

Glass ceiling? Wasn't HHH the one that finished a match with ONE leg so that he could put over Jericho and his partner? If Jericho looked like a fool it was because he is a HEEL. They usually look like pussies, and need to cheat to win (yes, there has been some exceptions). Remember last May? Jericho and Benoit were making HHH and Austin look like fools because they were FACES and the Two Man Power Trip were HEELS.



"...the people ran, they ran all right, they ran right to the toilet, pulled their pants down, took one big Hulk-a-CRAP every time you opened your mouth!"
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 10 days
#24 Posted on
ARGH. But what's the point? I mean, they're going to split the show and probably the belts, right? So why not have only 1 Undisputed Champ *EVER* before they split the damn belts? At least then Jericho could've stuck to his heel schtick. Oh well.

-Jag

The Urn : The Undertaker

Stephanie McMahon : Chris Jericho

At least in that match anyway
Swordsman Yen
Frankfurter








Since: 16.2.02
From: Shaolin

Since last post: 3749 days
Last activity: 3732 days
#25 Posted on

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    ARGH. But what's the point? I mean, they're going to split the show and probably the belts, right? So why not have only 1 Undisputed Champ *EVER* before they split the damn belts? At least then Jericho could've stuck to his heel schtick. Oh well.


Well if beating the top 2 faces on the same night to become the FIRST EVER undisputed champion isn't enough to start with, then Jericho isn't the creative genius we all thought he is. After all, Jericho could say that HHH's reign didn't last as long as his. Revisionist history is a powerful heel tool. :)



"Say 'what' again. SAY 'WHAT' AGAIN! I dare you, I double dare you, motherf--ker! Say 'what' one more goddamn time!" -- Samuel L. Jackson, Pulp Fiction (1994)
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 10 days
#26 Posted on
True, I'm not giving Jericho enough credit. I'll admit to that. Anyway, I'm not interested in Triple H's title reign. But you know what? After Hogan/Rock last night, I'll at least give them a chance to GET me interested in it.

-Jag
Eradicator
Kolbasz








Since: 4.1.02
From: Chicago

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 18 min.
#27 Posted on

    Originally posted by Jaguar
    ARGH. But what's the point? I mean, they're going to split the show and probably the belts, right? So why not have only 1 Undisputed Champ *EVER* before they split the damn belts? At least then Jericho could've stuck to his heel schtick. Oh well.

    -Jag

    The Urn : The Undertaker

    Stephanie McMahon : Chris Jericho

    At least in that match anyway



But I think they needed to have HHH win in order to go with that split the belts thing. It plays into the Stephanie gets 50% of HHH's stuff angle. Sure they could have come up witht another way to split the belts up, but this is obviously what they think is the way to go. Now Steph can claim one of the title's as hers (wonder which one it will be), and maybe she will give it back to Jericho.

And I do agree that Jericho could have been built up a little better, but I still think it's ridiculous to say that a loss in a WM MAIN EVENT to one of the top faces in the biz will ruin his career. I'm sure Chris is honored that he even got to perform at that level. He's probably a LOT less upset than the internet fans. In fact, he's probably not upset at all. I'm sure he realizes what he's been given and is quite happy. Who thought that when he was the WCW cruiser champ being held back that he would be the first ever undisputed champ wrestling in the last match at a WM? I didn't think it would really ever happen, and I'm damn glad it did. I still stand firm that the WWF did the right thing (though it could have been done a little better). Jericho should be proud of what he accomplished.



"...the people ran, they ran all right, they ran right to the toilet, pulled their pants down, took one big Hulk-a-CRAP every time you opened your mouth!"
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 10 days
#28 Posted on
All good points about Jericho there. What I really hate is that the obvious move seems to be Steph splitting the belts, and that just puts Steph on my tv more. THAT IS A BAD IDEA.

-Jag

End Rant, I'm done
dfallan
Cotechino








Since: 11.1.02
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

Since last post: 4168 days
Last activity: 4167 days
AIM:  
#29 Posted on
Okay first off, I love Jericho (As a performer), period. So keep that in Mind.

Triple H, Jericho was a great match, and the ending, while disappointing for me, was predictable.

Now the big problems that come from this are
1) Where does Jericho go from here?
His heel character started with hatred for the Rock, a motivation I'm sure we can all understand, and that was well developed.
As a LARGER THAN LIFE LIVING LEGEND, UNDISPUTED CHAMPEEN OF THE WORLD it just fed the ego that made him a better heel.

Now what?
There is no easy feud for him to switch into now, and no legitimate reason for anyoe to realy want a piece of him.

Jericho has been a great Heel Champ, IN SPITE of the fact that the WWF doesn't seem to give two shits about giving him the push he needs.
Sure he's held the belt for several months, but damn, it feels like they're pushing him as they would push heel European Champ, not the guy who has the top belt in the company.
Admittedly, though, some of the guys who have held the belt in recent years, Triple H, Stone Cold, Rock, Foley, were so over in their own right that they didn't need the extra push. But come on, when the Champ is fighting early in the first hour of Raw and then not mentioned the rest of the night, is it any wonder no one takes him seriously.
Of course Triple H got over as a heel by being a bad ass evil son of a bitch who destroyed all his competition for months and months on end.
2) Where does Hunter go from here?
As others have pointed out, there are no credible big name heels to challange him.
I can see 'Taker setting his sights on Hunter, just to kill time while they try and build up another heel.

As for Jericho getting the belt, it was the classic Undeserving cheating champ, and with such a creature, the money (ie what puts asses in the seats) is having the champ get away AGAIN AND AGAIN, from opponents far superior to himself. Its the chase everyone wants to see.

I have no Problem with Hunter Steroidicus Helmsley being the guy to end it, but consider that since the match recieved barely token build up, and Rock Hogan really overshadowed this "main event", PLUS the fact that it was in Jericho's home country may have been what prompted the WWF to put the screaching wench with him, so to keep the fans from getting behind him(You just can't trust us wacky canadians to do as we should. Look at Hogan/Rock).

Personally, What i'd like to have seen would have been as follows (They always say if you critisize then suggest how to fix it.)
First, Woman's Title Match, 3rd last match, then This one (With Hogan, Rock as Main event)

Jericho should have gotten over on Hunter, with some terribly dasterdly cheating (But let Hunter get the Pedigree on Stef, and make it clear he would have won the match) perhaps a big run in, say by Test (WHo thanks to immunity can't be fired for being an ass, and is Jealous of Hunter beig popular while Test had to fight on Heat), who tries to cripple Hunter, who is saved by...say Edge.

Now This can lead to Hunter "taking it easy" for a few weeks (SInce some Damage to that Bad leg WAS done), and Jericho badmouthing Edge, with Test as Jericho's "buddy".
Then as Edge faces Test, Jericho attacks (Because HHH was Jericho's Business Edge had no right) and Hunter makes the save.
Next PPV Edge gets a title shot, after Hunter gives him the proper Rub, and perhaps comes out as "manager".
Jericho Wins, but big brawl at the end, Where Hunter Hulks up and cleans house, leading to a tag match next night on Raw, where Hunter scores a pin on Jericho, and is awarded a Title Shot at King of the ring.
Now at this point, let's take test out of the picture with some phantom injury, say by Lance Storm (In an apparant accident) thus leaving hunter alone as Storm joins up with Jericho and Test. For the next weeks leading to the PPV, have Storm, and Test constantly attacking and wearing out Hunter, at Jericho's Direction, with temporary Hunter buddies appearing to help the Game, and being put out of action as quick as that (Here, we can have Hurricane, Maybe a holly, Scotty 2 hotty and other disposable midcard types do this)
Finally a worn and weary HHH faces Jericho at the PPV, and in a tremendous effort Hunter gets a clean match (Let's bring in either a Special Enforcer or just Hunter's COrner man to keep it fair, maybe HBK or Kane, or Maybe by then, Chris Beniot(after a beat down by Jericho)) and then the well deserved win.
Effectively by doing it like this, and keeping it going for a few months, interest is garnered, and by the continual stacking of odds against Hunter, Jericho is shown as a evil genius and is hated far more. Hunter's victory is seen as far more valiant.
As well, during this time, at least two signifcant Heels should have been devolped in other storylines to be a challenge for Hunter. His COrnerman might turn on him and want a match, or perhaps Test wants one.

Assuming the Cornerman doesn't turn on Hunter, Jericho has an instant feud ready, plus Edge and any other guy who was put out at Jericho's say so would be a logical feud once they Heal. And not just with Jericho either, Test, and Storm as well.

I know a lot of people will question the guys I choose here, but I just chose guys who I think can main event if given a push.
If I'm right, then by my count here, Edge should have been pushed to the very upper midcard, Test is back to full Mid Card, at least, Jericho may not be the champ, but can still coast on some that evil "I will get my revenge" heat, and HHH's cornerguy is primed as well.
Plus, as I said, they could have developed a few heels, and if more time is needed Angle and Taker are good heel challengers for week or two, who can distract the fans from the fact that Hunter has no real opponents.

Of course all of this ignores the "Split" which everyone assumes is about to happen.

So what ya all think?
I got a future as a booker man or should I just sticj to my N64?
And would the idea I put forth appease some of us who feel that Hunter shouldn't have gone over last night.



"Money's the Same whether you earn it or scam it" Bobby "The Brain" Heenan
"Will you stop!" Gorilla Monsoon after just about everything Heenean says.
"Welcome to Monday NYQUIL, where the Big boys Play with each other": Steve Austin, in ECW imitating his former boss Eric Bischoff.
Texas Kelly
Lap cheong








Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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ICQ:  
#30 Posted on
dfallan, that's exactly my point. I don't mind Jericho jobbing... as long as the FREAKING BUILDUP is strong and does much to make Jericho a threat and hold a legitimate claim to the title. The buildup SUCKED, and thus the only way to salvage the feud was to put Jericho over.

My real complaint is that Stephanie and the rest of the writing staff treated Jericho like SHIT, so that when Triple H won (as he had to EVENTUALLY) Jericho looked like a nobody. With the right buildup, Jericho comes out as strong as Trips does.

It's such an easy concept, but one that the Fed apparantly just doesn't grasp. THAT's why I'm so damned frustrated. Not because Jericho jobbed, but because they made him look like nothing before doing it. Again, if you build up the match right I DON'T MIND THE JOB. But Steph didn't do that.



Being The Bookerman (No Way Out)
Grading The Bookerman (No Way Out)
Worship Your God And Mine

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-- WWF Raw is War, 1/11/99

Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#31 Posted on
To those who don't think that Jericho was brushed aside during the build-up to the WM match, just look at last week. Raw was about Steph and HHH and Lucy the Dog and Lucy's excrement until, finally, Jericho gets to do something at the end and sledgehammers HHH and potentially reinjures him.

On SmackDown, HHH is in the ring and Steph and Jericho come out. Their resulting interview can be paraphrased like:

Steph: "HHH, Dr. Andrews Dr. Andrews Dr. Andrews Dr. Andrews Dr. Andrews Dr. Andrews Dr. Andrews!"

Jericho: "Hey, HHH we have a match-"

HHH: (ignores Jericho) "Steph, Dr. Andrews Dr. Andrews!"

I don't know what they have in store, so I'm not going to say that it's in the best interest of the WWF to have Jericho win last night. And I agree that sometimes you need the face to walk out of WM as champ. Like WM2000.
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