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The W - Pro Wrestling - Jericho as Undisputed Champion
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tomvejada
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 7517 days
Last activity: 7517 days
#1 Posted on
Almost one year ago today, Chris Jericho won the Undisputed title. Personally, I enjoyed Jericho's title reign. He cut some good promos, had some good matches, etc.

Sadly, Jericho's title reign was overshadowed by the return of HHH, the NWO, Rock-Hogan, and the involvement of Stephanie in the HHH-Y2J feud.

What did you people think about Jericho as Undisputed Champ?



"I just got pinned by a friggin twelve-year-old."

Kurt Angle
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BrewGuy
Kolbasz








Since: 2.1.02
From: Pickering, Ontario

Since last post: 3989 days
Last activity: 869 days
ICQ:  
#2 Posted on

There has not been a better title reign since Jericho's four-or-five-month stint as Undisupted Champion. It's such a damn shame that the storyline going into WrestleMania was so crappy - Jericho deserved SO much better. If they'd had just let Jericho and H go at it toe-to-toe in the ring and on the mic in the weeks building up to WM instead of backing cars over dogs, it would have been terrific.

I remember most people thought that Jericho's reign would end at the Rumble, but he was SO damn good as a heel champ, he went into their biggest show as the Undisputed Champion. Having the championship match after the Rock/Hogan match (which was totally emotionally draining) was a tough spot for them to be in, but had they had even a halfway-decent storyline, I think fans could have recovered and gotten into that match more than they did. It's a very good match, but it's overlooked simply because of the magnitude of Rock/Hogan.

The next Jericho title reign can't come fast enough for me.

(edited by BrewGuy on 3.12.02 0930)


I think somebody needs a Mattitude adjustment.
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

Since last post: 5853 days
Last activity: 5853 days
#3 Posted on
In theory, Jericho as Undisputed Champion was a great idea. In reality it was a big failure at all levels.

To the casual fans, it killed the buyrates and the ratings.

To the net fans, Jericho turned into the typical heel who couldn't win any matches without massive cheating. He was booked as a pussy-heel nearly losing to Maven of all people. He never got one clean win.

His moveset sucked once he turned heel he lost the ability to wrestle. They took away his Walls of Jericho finisher and replaced it with the Stroke. They took away all his top rope moves. He won his matches by NWO interference. Once they made him Stephanie's valet to feud with Triple H, it really crapped out.

I like Jericho more now than when he was "champ."
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 2852 days
Last activity: 1198 days
#4 Posted on
Jericho's titl reign just didn't do anything for me. IMO that was more down to bad nooking than anything else. His promos were pretty good, and his ring works always first rate, but as the first 'undisputed' champion I felt he should have been a more dominant character.

By the end of his reign I just saw him as this whiny little bitch that had no right holding the belt, and that frankly I had no interest in seing on my TV.

I kinda like his character the way it is now, but I still want to see him have a face turn some time soon if RAW can finally build up a couple of top heels to take his place.
Wpob
Bierwurst








Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 1454 days
Last activity: 1220 days
#5 Posted on
I loved jericho as the Champ but felt he got the shaft. Everyone loved to hate him and he was a fresh heel that people could all get behind in hating. Had they let him run with the ball and do his mic work without crappy angles or Stephanie to slow him down, I think he would have been awesome.

Sadly, I do not see Jericho ever regaining the title belt, unless someone gets hurt or he turns face and the people love him. Right now, he will have to settle for being one of the best overall entertainers in the business.

Of course, I would love it if they brought back the IC belt, gave it to Jericho and let him run with the "Conspiracy Victim: angle they did in WCW. That was Jericho at his finest.



Wpob
Shut Up and Wrestle!!!
astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 6024 days
Last activity: 5991 days
#6 Posted on
Jericho as champ was a classic example of "booked to fail". Even though he was the first champ, he was NEVER the focus of any shows. He usually fought Mark Henry or Maven while the REAL main-eventers busied themselves in other storylines. Hell, he even had to REMIND Rock that he was champ in what had to be one of the greatest promos of the year. I don't mind that he cheated to win. I mind that he showed up at 10:40 on RAW and 9:40 on Smackdown! with little or no promo time.



"All we are is meat."

-The Deftones
dMp
Knackwurst








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 265 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#7 Posted on
I have very mixed emotions about Jericho as the champ.
I do not remember any of his in-ring work, other than alot of cheating. I remember many promos and especially the whining that they shouldnt overlook him.
As said that promo he did with the Rock was one of the most intense things ever, and it was amazing..

I too believe the WM match was good, and never had a chance following Hogan-Rock (and the women's 3-way in between didnt give the crowd enough time to recover)

the angle for the match however, Sigh...they destroyed the coolness of this match with the whole Steph-HHH thing.
I know many fans wanted to see that angle be played out, with HHH getting rid of Steph but they should have kept that for the weeks after WM..oh well..crying over spilled milk.

I love the King of the World character a million times more than any of his previouw incarnations, and I for one do NOT want him as a face.



astrobstrd
Bockwurst








Since: 13.3.02
From: Loveland, OH

Since last post: 6024 days
Last activity: 5991 days
#8 Posted on
I would have been fine with the WM match (it was a little 'eh', but not terrible), IF HHH had at least sold the leg injury for longer than 3 minutes before the match ended. Hell, they could have used his weak leg as an angle leading up to his loss to Hogan as well. As it played out (especially on the next night's RAW), Jericho's all-leg offense had no effect.



"All we are is meat."

-The Deftones
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 4873 days
Last activity: 439 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
Great thread.

I agree with Brew, if they'd just let HHH and Jericho go at it, it would have been so much better. Just focusing on the leg injury would have been enough, all that stuff with Steph just seemed so overbooked.

I liked Jericho as champ, but I don't know how much the marks bought into it. I was at a RAW in Austin and he came out and talked about how since he was champ the "whole world" revolved around him. My friends and I still laugh about that.

But now I don't remember how much heat that got. Jericho always reminded me of a semi-artsy movie. The critics love it, but the fans are lukewarm.

That said, I remember when he beat Rock for the WCW title and EVERYONE I know was rooting for him there. But that was also a product of Rock's unselfishness and going to extremes to make sure Jericho got the rub.



"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me

Never been a Wiener of the Day

RFMC Vice President (I think)

Pool-Boy
Lap cheong








Since: 1.8.02
From: Huntington Beach, CA

Since last post: 206 days
Last activity: 163 days
#10 Posted on
That is the difference between the Rock and HHH to me. I was really getting sick of seeing the Rock around, but while I wanted for him to take a long vacation (which he has ended up doing, a few times), I always wanted him to come back. And even when I was sick of him, my skin did not crawl when I saw him in the ring.
Why doesn't HHH get it, like the Rock does? Great wrestling matches take 2 guys, 2 strong characters. Who cares if the guy is not "as good?" One could argue that Hogan is not nearly the wrestler that the Rock is, but look at the match they had! Look at the emotion!
We can all talk about how technically sound a guy is, or how good a worker someone is, but when it comes down to it, a good story makes a good match. Hogan and Rock told a good story in the ring. Rock has told COUNTLESS good stories in the ring. Why? Because he knew that if his opponent was not credible in the fans eyes, he had to MAKE them credible. Rock vs. Jericho? Good match, great feud. HHH vs. Jericho? SQUASH. Terrible match. Seriously- the fact that I cannot remember HHH making someone, anyone, look good in the ring just proves that HHH does not understand the first thing about what makes a good story. And if he doesn't get that, how can anyone expect him to tell one in the ring?
I actually miss Rocky... :(




"Pool-Boy"


Well- my ass still hurts, but lets see what happens this week...
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 5431 days
Last activity: 5365 days
#11 Posted on
Jericho's reign as the champeen was a total mess for every reason possible. Month after month the belt was overshadowed by:

-Triple H's "Oooooh aren't I brilliant" face love-ins
_The Flair/Vince angle
-The nWo's big return
-Billy and Chuck winning the tag team titles

Well, okay...mayber not that last one. In addition to that, Jericho remained as generic and "midcard 4 life" as when he'd been competing against Rhyno and co. the year before. There was only a select few occasions when Jericho really tried to be a main eventer. The pre-Rumble "I am a winner!" speech and his battering of HHH the week before Mania were the best. And, of course, he was never given that big defining win a la Angle; had he put away Rock relatively cleanly at the Rumble, or even Austin at No Way Out, I think success would've been imminent. But it didn't happen.

Oh, and Pool-Boy, much as a loathe H right now, he did used to try and make his opponents look good. Go back and watch his matches against Foley, Benoit, and Jericho from 2000; I guess he was much more confident in his abilities keeping him over then, whereas today he's such a wasted mess that the only way he feels secure is by making everyone else look worse.






Apparently, I Am


Yes, My Coolness Has Gone Up

Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 7033 days
Last activity: 5453 days
#12 Posted on
I'm still dumbfounded on the stupidity of the H/Steph separation went. How the hell do you do a breakup angle of this magnitude and not allow a third pary to be involved (and no thawing Linda McMahon so she can snitch on Steph on the phone doesn't count). Triple H taking all his time rehabbing and Steph traveling all over the continent with (insert Jericho) what better opportunity to do a cheating wife angle then that. You know sympathy is a nice element to be an interesting babyface. But no we have Trips outsmarting everyone and be the big man that break it off and Jericho then just gets unwanted sloppy seconds... And having all the focus on hHh/Steph with Jericho as Steph's bitch. A World Title main event of WrestleMania which major focus was "Is HHH going to pedigree Steph". Who would have figured this whole thing would have been an awful bust. Oh yeah I did.

(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 3.12.02 1446)


Oh they have the internet on computers now!
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 6706 days
Last activity: 6706 days
#13 Posted on
At first, I wasn't really buying the Jericho title win because they really hadn't built him up as any sort of threat for a long time. But after he won it, he started to grow on me as a great heel. Things looked so promising after the Rumble but man, was Jericho booked to be a complete joke. He couldn't even beat Maven without cheating. He was scooping up dog crap.

Although, as far as being a bust as champion, the numbers and buyrates were fine during his run. I don't really think how you can call a guy a bust when they give him the main title and still book him like a midcarder.

I still think they really missed the ball when Jericho was a face by not giving him a title run. He was just like Rob Van Dam is right now. Super over but he became the guy who could never win the big won to the fans.
darkdragoon
Bockwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 7140 days
Last activity: 7140 days
#14 Posted on
Well...let's see...he was sloppy at KOTR, got the uber "he's the future of our organization" at InVasion, sloppy again at Summerslam, plus Rhyno and the Steph angle didn't help, then suddenly he turns and beats Rock? I'd say they were back and forth on him the whole year...
Dagent913
Bockwurst








Since: 18.11.02
From: Strong Island

Since last post: 7116 days
Last activity: 6647 days
#15 Posted on
I'm a big fan of Chris Jericho, so I was just so sad that he was booked the way he was as the first ever Undisputed Champ. It was like he was the only one in the company that cared that that's what he was. The writers sure didn't. I was actually glad that HHH won at WrestleMania just because it ended the ongoing messy abortion that Y2J's run became.
HMD
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 2541 days
Last activity: 2541 days
#16 Posted on
Hey, not being clairvoyant I can't say for sure that if Jericho had been booked strong he would have drawn better numbers, but I will say two things.

1/ he drew better than what Trips draws now.

2/ Having him beat people cleanly and look like an actual capable performer...well, to the casual and smart fan alike, that sure would have made for more compelling television, wouldn't it?



My best quotes from the NOV. 21 Smackdown Recap:
-"a bath sponge is a King-Size bed to Rey Mysterio Jr"
-"He stands on the apron for the west-coast-pop, a cool move with a very, very homosexual name."
-"Through this felled wall we see Crash Holly lying on a table being orally pleasured by the trainer."
-"Here comes Benoit! Crisp Benoit! Why do I call him Crisp? Because everything he does is CRISPY CRISP!"
-"The shmuck in the Andre suit comes down. They hug. I find myself strangely aroused."
James F'n X
Bockwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 6530 days
Last activity: 6496 days
#17 Posted on
You all know my feelings on Chris Jericho. If you don't, strap in your seats, baby, cause we're going for a ride!

Before the Vengeance tournament, Chris Jericho was seen as the fourth wheel of the title picture, behind Austin, Rock, and Angle. Throughout his WWF career, he had been seen as a competent upper-midcarder, a believably solid modern IC champion, but had performed sloppily in several matches on pay-per-view earlier in the year and his credibility was the lowest it had ever been. Anyone with a longer memory to his WCW work had no reason to counter the current assessment that he was a mid-carder with that most dreaded of words - potential.

Jericho wins the tournament through dubious means. The fact he won the tournament surprises casual viewers, who still see him as inferior to the big 3 *without any help from what you call 'booking to fail'*; and since the casual fans that make up the audiences to Raws and Smackdowns don't see Jericho as a qualified champion, and they still clamored for Austin, Rock, Angle, and later, Triple H, it would have been stupid to put Jericho ahead of those four on TV and dissatisfy the audiences. People weren't believing Jericho as champ, and with only four months before HHH was to take the title back at 'Mania, there was not a single thing Vince could have done to make Jericho truly credible.

Of course, saddling him with the black hole of heat, Stephanie McMahon, and effectively making the 'Mania main HHH/Steph wasn't the right answer either.



"Steiner’s Chain Mail must be +2 v. Cruiserweights, Chris! Make a saving throw!" - Excalibur05

"Come to the place where tropical breezes blow! Come to the coolest place I know! The people are so great! But really there's only me! And that means I'm so great, and also there's the Cheat, oh there's the Cheat!"
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 6706 days
Last activity: 6706 days
#18 Posted on
Isn't it the bookers job to turn that midcarder with potential into a Main Eventer by giving him that credibility?

Jericho had the credibility in 2000 and 2001 but everytime he got "this close", lost and went back to the midcard for awhile, that did serious damage. The same thing happened to Angle and is happening to RVD and Booker T now.

Austin was in their position and Bret Hart gave him that credibility. Rock was in that position and Foley and Austin gave him that credibility. We even saw it earlier this year with Rock giving Brock credibility. But the longer they wait to do that, the less it finally means when it happens. Those false pushes end up being extremely counterproductive.

In 2000, they might have seen Jericho's win/non-win over HHH to be giving Jericho credibility but when they never followed up on it, it ended up being a one step forward - two steps back scenario.

It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 2199 days
Last activity: 581 days
#19 Posted on
Chris Jericho's title reign took a huge toilet splash as soon as they made him Stephanie's coffee boy.

Nothing that hasn't been said already, I know.

I know people last year were saying "Hey, he's the FIRST Undisputed champion! Nobody can take that away from him!", but there was one thing they could do make that worthless and they did it:

They made two titles again. Sad that it only took NINE MONTHS for the title to be disputed again.

Hey, I'll look at the bright side. Maybe Jericho can be the SECOND first Undisputed champion...uh...if that makes sense. :/




Hail the man who fought Vince McMahon and won! Hail the man who dared to stand up against shitty booking! Hail the man who stood by his principles! Hail the conquering hero! Stone Cold is coming!
count olaf
Goetta








Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 6933 days
Last activity: 6929 days
#20 Posted on
I hated the idea of Jericho as the first ever undisputed champ. I never saw him as more than a competant IC or tag title guy, and didn't believe he had the moveset to be a believable champion. The bookin was poor, but in all honesty, they could've remade War and Peace out there and I still wouldn't have accepted Jericho as the champ.
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I did not see the PPV- I saw the new Star Trek instead, and I am sorry, it kicked all kinds of ass. I will say that it is pretty sad to write a review of a PPV you have not even seen, though....
- Pool-Boy, The Mark Report #4 (2002)
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