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The W - Basketball - It's breakin' loose in Tulsa!!....I mean, Detroit!
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geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.24
Just got done watching the disgraceful performance by the Detroit fans- I don't usually have the luck(?) of seeing these big events live, so it was shocking to say the least. I think, if anything, the NBA will look at the number of security they have around- looked like it took them forever to get to the fight.

I think this comes partially from the fans getting a free pass in alot of other incidents, including the chair-throwing at the MLB game in LA. These fans think, "Hey, we can do whatever we want! If the player comes into the stands, they'll get blamed, not us."

The sad part is it started on a pretty normal foul, with Ben Wallace acting like he'd never been fouled before.

(edited by geemoney on 19.11.04 2258)


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MoeGates
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Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.14
My calls:
Wallace gets a 3-game suspension.
Artest gets a 90-day suspension, surpassing the old record held by Kermit Washington.
That other Pacer who threw a punch at a fan gets a 30-day suspension.
At least one fan sues the heck out of the Palace, the Pacers, Artest, and the NBA.
No fans or players are criminally indicted in the incident.
The Palace institutes a "no alchohol" policy.
You start to see Security behind the benches at all games.

Yeah it was the fan's fault. Yeah the commentators put it all on the crowd. But player/fan altercations is, was, and always will be the absolute biggest no-no in all professional sports, and the league will come down with a hammer on Artest for crossing that line, no matter what the circumstances.

EDIT: All lawsuits are settled out-of-court

(edited by MoeGates on 19.11.04 2304)

(edited by CRZ on 19.11.04 2205)

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Since: 19.6.02
From: New Orleans

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#3 Posted on
The other player who threw a punch was Stephen Jackson. That was just crazy, he got cheapshotted in the back of the head by some dude throwing haymakers at him.

Artest flying into the stands, tripping over a seat en route to punching a fan, and having to be forcibly restrained before leaving the building? Tru Warier, indeed.

That was a totally disgraceful move from the fans at the Palace, but I have to admit I will definitely be watching the next matchup between these teams, if Artest hasn't been traded by then. This rivalry just got a lot more interesting.



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Since: 9.7.02
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.21
It's nice to see that the NBA (and the NFL, thanks to the Browns and Steelers) is providing some place to turn for the NHL fans who wanted to see professional athletes have fistfights.



"He is the most overrated piece of crap in the league. He bitched and whined after he got his ass beaten in New England last year, so the NFL changed the rules. Then he got his ass beaten in New England again. Every year he's the top MVP candidate. Every year he's supposed to be the best. Every year he's going to carry the Colts to the Super Bowl. And every single year he goes to New England and gets his ass beaten. And his brother's a whiny little bitch." -A friend of mine, on Peyton Manning

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KaneRobot
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Since: 24.2.02
From: Bowels

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.04
    Originally posted by geemoney
    Just got done watching the disgraceful performance by the Detroit fans


Yeah, and Artest did nothing wrong. Your bias here is what's "disgraceful." The drunk, dumbass fan who threw that should spend the night in jail, but YOU DON'T GO INTO THE STANDS AND ATTACK FANS IF YOU ARE A PLAYER. All these wannabe thug/rapper basketball players dream of a moment like this.


    Yeah it was the fan's fault.



    The sad part is it started on a pretty normal foul, with Ben Wallace acting like he'd never been fouled before.


A normal foul? Uh, no. It was a flagrant foul with the Pacers way up with well under a minute to go. No reason for it.

I'd say it was just as much the "fault" of the Pacers player who comitted the flagrant foul on Ben Wallace for no reason, and Wallace for pushing him afterwards.

Artest ain't Heidenreich.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.24
    Originally posted by KaneRobot
      Originally posted by geemoney
      Just got done watching the disgraceful performance by the Detroit fans


    Yeah, and Artest did nothing wrong. Your bias here is what's "disgraceful." The drunk, dumbass fan who threw that should spend the night in jail, but YOU DON'T GO INTO THE STANDS AND ATTACK FANS IF YOU ARE A PLAYER. All these wannabe thug/rapper basketball players dream of a moment like this.

Hey, chill out man. Nowhere did I say I condoned Artest's actions. Obviously, anytime you go into the stands, it's wrong. But he wouldn't have gone into the stands if the fan hadn't thrown the beer on the guy.

And turn on any NBA game, and you see fouls that hard every night.

(edited by geemoney on 19.11.04 2345)


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KaneRobot
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Since: 24.2.02
From: Bowels

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
Thanks for the suggestion. "The Detroit Fans" were like 2 people, and when the nutball athlete stormed into the stands it expanded in self-defense on both sides.

I guess it'll make for entertaining subject matter on what is sure to be a dynamite, groundbreaking rap album from Artest.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.24
    Originally posted by KaneRobot
    Thanks for the suggestion. "The Detroit Fans" were like 2 people

Did you SEE all the people throwing any kind of liquid available on the players as they went into the locker room? Yeah, I'd say that was more than two.



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KaneRobot
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Since: 24.2.02
From: Bowels

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
I just SAID it expanded after the guy went into the stands. What did you expect?

I was ANNOYED because your original post basically says "look at the idiot Detroit fans" and makes zero mention of the real reason this is even news in the first place - the players attacking fans.

(edited by KaneRobot on 19.11.04 2353)
Reverend J Shaft
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Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.03
Un-frickin-believable. Their needs to be suspensions all over the place. Artest, Wallace, Jackson, anyone who even set foot in the stands. And I hope the Palace has a nice camera setup to catch all the stupid punks who threw punches, water bottles, beer and other crap. Those idiots should never be allowed near the Palace again.

Some might think this will help a rivalry, but this was disgraceful. I cannot believe that fans would take a piddly little regular season game so seriously as to goad and taunt players like they obviously did. At the same time, if fans get jail time for going on the court, all players who went into the stands need a LOT of suspension time and large files. Just pathetic.

(edited by Reverend J Shaft on 19.11.04 2357)
CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.02
Maybe Ben Wallace shouldn't have given Artest the double chop to the throat. CERTAINLY the idiot Detroit fans - who, by the way, were idiots - shouldn't have thrown ANYTHING. CERTAINLY the idiot Detroit fans - who, by the way, were idiots - shouldn't have stepped one foot onto the court.

I anxiously await the animated GIF of O'Neal CLOCKING that one guy - sorry, I mean one idiot Detroit fan (who, by the way, was an idiot) - on the court. I also wouldn't mind seeing one of the heroic cop spraying pepper spray into the idiot Detroit fans.

(edited by CRZ on 19.11.04 2312)


CRZ
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Since: 10.12.01
From: The KZiM Tower

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.25
Also, shame on them for messing up Scot Pollard's suit after he'd dressed up so nice.



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KaneRobot
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Since: 24.2.02
From: Bowels

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
A double chop to the throat is immediate cause for suspension. A double chop to the throat is a growing problem in NBA games and the league MUST take action to stop the players from throwing further deadly double chops to the throat. Or as most people call it, a push.

*EDIT*

These are fairly big files so I only did two since I didn't want the page to take 3 days to load. I like how Jackson is leaping to the rescue in the second one.





(edited by KaneRobot on 20.11.04 0123)
MoeGates
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Since: 6.1.02
From: Brooklyn, NY

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.14
Most surprising thing about that incident - from the Yahoo writeup

Detroit's Rasheed Wallace and Indiana's David Harrison were also in or near the stands. Both were trying to break up the fights.

Full Story

Who'd have thunk you'd have a story like this with 'Sheed as a mere footnote? God Bless.

(edited by MoeGates on 20.11.04 0113)

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KaneRobot
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Since: 24.2.02
From: Bowels

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56
Yeah, Rick Mahorn was in there too trying to pull people away, I was thinking the same thing about him. Times have changed.

(edited by KaneRobot on 20.11.04 0120)
Crimedog
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Since: 28.3.02
From: Ohio

Since last post: 2769 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.20
    Originally posted by KaneRobot
    I just SAID it expanded after the guy went into the stands. What did you expect?

    I was ANNOYED because your original post basically says "look at the idiot Detroit fans" and makes zero mention of the real reason this is even news in the first place - the players attacking fans.

    (edited by KaneRobot on 19.11.04 2353)


Well, it looked to me like Artest was chilling on the scorer's table until someone threw a cup containing god knows what at him. If I were in his shoes, I would've gone after the SOB too. That's not even to mention the moron who came out on the court and tried to be all hard and ended up getting clocked by both Artest and Jermaine O'Neal.

Rule No. 1 if you're a player: You don't go after a fan.
Rule No. 1 if you're a fan: You don't throw things.

I've got to side with the Pacers on this one. Artest is a hothead, but quite frankly, he was doing nothing wrong until some moron decided to escalate the situation by chucking something at him.

As for the foul that started all this, if that's a flagrant, I'm Bill Gates. Wallace WAY overreacted. I bet he gets hit harder than that in practice. And, you'll notice, Artest didn't react AT ALL to the chop to the throat.


(edited by Crimedog on 20.11.04 0152)
sweetroll
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Since: 23.3.02
From: Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Since last post: 390 days
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#17 Posted on
The most disturbing thing is that it looks like Artest went after the wrong guy. Artest was laying down on the scorers' table for some reason when a 1/4-full cup of beer landed on his chest. I really doubt he could see who chucked it at him.

Dude goes into the crowd, doesn't really bee-line toward anyone, and swings at the first guy to taunt him. The guy he attacked had a cup in his hand. Unless the fan was double-fisting (which apparently is a possibility), it probably wasn't him that threw the cup.

I can't believe the ESPN crew is blaming the fans for this. A plastic cup with 4-6 fluid ounces hit a very large man in the chest. It's not like Artest got hit in the face by a chair, glass bottle, or flaming bag of dog poo.

After the fight spilled into the stands, it obviously got out hand. Unless he was defending himself or trying to break things up, every fan that threw anything crossed the line.

But that fat dude getting sucker-punched by O'Neal was hilarious.

I miss the days when the "thugs" of the NBA were Mahorn, Barkley, Laimbeer, etc. They weren't really thugs, just aggressive guys on the court. Players like tonight's characters really ARE dangerous guys.
KaneRobot
Morcilla








Since: 24.2.02
From: Bowels

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.56

    The most disturbing thing is that it looks like Artest went after the wrong guy. Artest was laying down on the scorers' table for some reason when a 1/4-full cup of beer landed on his chest. I really doubt he could see who chucked it at him.


That's what I didn't get...unless maybe a teammate pointed out the person, I don't see how Artest could have known it was that guy. If it's obvious/proven that it WASN'T that guy that he went after...yikes. Lawsuit paradise...as if there aren't going to be enough already.


    As for the foul that started all this, if that's a flagrant, I'm Bill Gates.


Mr. Gates, it's nice to see you. I don't care what those supposed "hardcore gaming fans" say, I think the XBox is great.

He wasn't "chilling on the table," he was being an arrogant prick. If he was letting it go he would have walked back to his bench instead of laying there pseudo-relaxing on the table, then grabbing the headset off an announcer and yelling "I didn't do nothin, see that! I didn't do nothin!"

Flagrant fouls: Happen regularly.

Pushes: Happen regularly.

Fans throwing things: Somewhat rare, but still happens with enough regularity that players know to just ignore it and let security take care of the guy.

Basketball player goes crazy and starts punching fans: Does not happen.

It's pretty easy to see where the line was crossed. I'll let you guys spin this any way you want, I guess if nothing else the media and other basketball fans have been itching for a chance to rip into Detroit since a lot of people were made to look dumb after they won the title last year.

(edited by KaneRobot on 20.11.04 0230)
Zeruel
Thirty Millionth Hit
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Silver Spring in the Land of Mary.

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by MoeGates
    Artest gets a 90-day suspension, surpassing the old record held by Kermit Washington.


Honestly, I see him with a 100 GAME suspension. Probably getting it reduced to 50-60 games on appeal.




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ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
OK, having just watched the SportsCenter recap of this disgraceful incident, here's my take.

There's no question that Ron Artest was provoked, and clearly you shouldn't throw things at the guy. But at the same time I don't condone running into the stands and attacking fans. I'd hit him with a 10-game suspension. 100-game or 90-day suspension, my ass. Dennis Rodman didn't get nearly that much for low-blowing the cameraman-- and the cameraman didn't do anything to deserve it.

Stephen Jackson, 2-game suspension. He was just coming to Artest's aid. Ron was out there by himself, and you gotta protect the guy. Especially since you can't tell which fans have hostile intent.

Jermaine O'Neal, no suspension. Jermaine didn't do anything until a fan came onto the court, and once the guy's on the court, he's fair game. If you jump the guardrail at a wrestling event or jump onto a football field, players and security are authorized to use force to take you down, and that's precisely what JO did. I wouldn't suspend him, and if he is suspended, the player's union should file a grievance.

I strongly disagree with whomever said that everyone who went into the stands should be suspended. Eddie Gill was clearly playing peacemaker, trying to get Ron to settle down. Fred Jones wasn't doing anything until he got clocked from behind by a fan who must easily weigh 300 pounds-- and I didn't see Freddy retaliate, either. I'd let Gill and Jones off scot-free.

I'm not convinced that alcohol should be served at any sporting event, because that's just asking for disaster. So I'd ban the sale of alcohol at all NBA games, period, not just the ones in the Palace.

And I'd increase the security presence as well.



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