From: SoCal 4 Life
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|Y!: ||#1 Posted on 4.3.02 0823.41 |
|... because for me, it's become a situation where I'm saying, "Why did the WWF waste all of this money and promotion to bring in a group that has looked like the Kowardly Keystone Kops during the time they have appeared on my TV???" It's actually driving me away at this point. |
I was optimistic about seeing these guys come in. The Hogan promo (the "cha gonna do?" after the "What?" was golden), the Hogan/Rock promo, and the subsequent beatdown of the Rock, was excellent. The demo-derby overkill in the parking lot I could have done without, but I could see the Fed working. I was expecting a series of shows over the next several weeks that would feature a few beatdowns by the nWo, followed by a good series of matches between nWo members and any one of Austin, HHH, RVD, even Flair. In my mind, the matches would be about 7-8 minutes each and wouldn't end cleanly (due to interference), in order to set the table for clean blowoffs at WM18. In other words, if the time and effort surrounding the arrival of this faction were any indication, the nWo would be best promoted as a legitimate threat to the foundation of the top WWF fan favorites.
Instead, the nWo is being booked as idiotic pushovers. Where's the logic in their running from a gimpy Steve Austin, especially when THEY WERE THE ONES THAT "CRIPPLED" HIM with the "cinder" blocks?? What are they doing peeking around corners and tip-toeing around?? Why aren't they in legitimate matches?? Why is Ric Flair putting around with the Undertaker -- after the whole angle determining the decision to retain his "part-ownership" of the WWF was predicated on his feelings of dread about the impending nWo arrival??
Blake Norton wrote a great article in 411 that pretty much echoes my sentiments about this angle. I mean, seriously, what the hell is going on? Were these guys even ready to wrestle matches at the point of their arrival? Was the nWo given so much attention only to brought in to be booked as the latest laughingstock or Austin's new bitches?
For a similar quandary, look at what has happened to Jericho. Here was a guy who went from a great feud with Rock (where it seemed neither guy was more over than the other), to the Undisputed Champion and conqueror of Austin and Rock in one night ... and now look at him -- his heat's almost gone, and he's become the biggest pussy in the Fed as Screech's Lotion Monitor.
Are these the right directions to be followed heading into the WWF's most prestigious and historical event of the year?
(edited by J.T. Dutch on 4.3.02 0758)
"Puttin' some stink on it!!"
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From: New York, NY
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|AIM: || ||#2 Posted on 4.3.02 0836.41 |
|I have to agree with you. Vince was calling these guys a cancer that would destroy the WWF. So what are they doing to destroy the WWF? They took out the Rock in the lamest skit in years and busted Austin's knee. I guess they figure that by beating up the top faces they destroy the entire federation.|
You're in a desert, walking along in the sand when all of a sudden you look down and see a tortoise. It's crawling towards you. You reach down and flip the tortoise over on its back. The tortoise lays on its back, its belly baking in the hot sun, beating its legs trying to turn itself over. But it can't. Not without your help. But you're not helping.
From: Sheffield, UK
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|AIM: || ||#3 Posted on 4.3.02 0919.18 | Instant Rating: 8.00|
|Yeah, you're both spot on. Y2J-Rock was hot as hell and I believe the reason for that was that both men were portrayed as equals. As a result when Jericho turned and became a pussy it just seemed unrealistic. The whole way the WWF has strong faces and weak heels meant it had to be that way, but that doesn't make it suck any less. Look at HHH as a strong heel champion: major heat. Yet with anyone else they seem to be reluctant to do the same thing.|
With the nWo I think they should have been put over as monsters as then, when whatever face finally gets the win, it's then a major deal (see Sting, Luger etc). At least it shows that Hogan et al are willing to "do the right thing" and do what's asked of them by the company. Maybe it's the famed humbling process at main event level we're seeing.
In a way, you know, it was a lose-lose situation for the WWF whatever they did, portray them as strong and have the internet group complain about politicking and keeping the young guys down or portray them as weak and have us wonder what the hell they bothered bringing them in for in the first place.
"Nobody enjoys a good time more than I do, but this business of yours is as legitimate as a three-legged donkey...which of course is illegitimate because as we all know donkeys have four legs."
Lance Storm, 21st January 2002.
From: Just outside Dudleyville
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|AIM: || ||#4 Posted on 4.3.02 1848.22 |
|What I think is happening is you are all being worked. The bookers are probably thinking "make the nWo look like jokes then put them over at WM." After all this humiliation I predict Hall will both win at WM and the next night on Raw they'll say something about Austin underestimating them, and their scared act was just that... an act to get Austin overconfident and, thus, to not take Hall seriously.|
Everything's cool when you're Yun [point] Cheol [point] Su [point]
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|#5 Posted on 4.3.02 1857.12 | Instant Rating: 6.09|
Look at HHH as a strong heel champion: major heat. Yet with anyone else they seem to be reluctant to do the same thing.
A great deal of Triple H's heat came from being so different from anyone else. He got such great heat because he was a dominant heel at a point in time where the WWF hadn't had one in years. If the dominant heel were less rare, his heat wouldn't have been so impressive.
Caring is the first step towards disappointment.
From: Hamden, CT
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|#6 Posted on 5.3.02 0121.49 |
|I think I like where they're going with nWo (so far)... When they're TOGETHER they can beat down anyone. As soon as they get separated, however, their weaknesses show through. They're picking out single targets with no allies. As long as they outnumber the opposition, they can win. If you go into any organization and take out the most powerful people one at a time, it'll be easier to control the people under them. It seems to me that Vince has masterminded a plot to take out Flair, Rock and Austin at WM. UT and the nWo are his henchmen.|
Eventually, some group will oppose the, The nWo will have to start recruiting. Hopefully, this doesn't happen for a while. I know it'll mirror their WCW days in a way, but it just makes sense.
Hogan: He does repeat those "beat-down thesis statements" throughout each show, but he's got some great one-liners. On tonight's RAW, as Hall draws from the lottery basket to see who his opponent will be, Hogan looks over his shoulder and says, "I hope it's not Andre the Giant." Comedy Gold.
I've found Hall very entertaining, and I'm sure when Nash recovers and gets rid of the ring rust, he'll be as useful as the Big Show.
I'd give this thing time before crapping on it.
"Cram it with walnuts, ugly!"- Mr. Homer Simpson
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)
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|#7 Posted on 5.3.02 0308.08 |
|They are a poison, a cancer remember?|
Not a punch in the mouth, a knife in the stomach or whatever..
THey kill from within. They attack when you least expect it and retreat when they stand face to face.
They are the uber cowardly heels. Beat downs, driving over people, etc..It ALL makes sense..
Too bad it doesn't make for much of a wrestling show but more a backstage segment show..
If you ever expected Hogan to stand flexing in the ring on his 2nd night you were SO wrong..
Btw..you KNOW Hall is gonna win..he openly challenged Hogan, and Nash or someone else is gonna help him win it after Austin does one of his sweet blade jobs.
Hogan however, was kinda lured into the match. ROck played on his legend status, challenging his ego..Hogan couldn't pass up on this one. I wouldn't be surprised even if he asks the rest of the gang to stay away or something like that..only to job and then beat down Rock some more on Raw..
"...And I use that to fuck them some place fairly uncomfortable."
"What, like the back of a volkswagen ?"
From: Brooklyn NY
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|#8 Posted on 6.3.02 1221.35 |
Originally posted by The Sham
When they're TOGETHER they can beat down anyone.
Like those scrawny stage hands. Now THAT was impressive.
Uber-heels my ass!
From: Modesto, CA
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|#9 Posted on 6.3.02 1400.31 |
|If they really want to show the NWO dominating the WWF, they need to do some run-ins during *other people's* matches and things to that effect. The thing that made the NWO a threat in the WCW is that they were *everywhere* and basically ruled the show. I agree that just taking out the big stars and doing stuff backstage is not much so far. They need to be a constant threat and the battle between them and others needs to be *the* center of every WWF show. With so many stars and storylines going on right now, I just don't think we've seen that yet (but maybe I'm not watching enough of RAW to see this.) And I think we need to see other NWO members added either at Wrestlemania or very soon after (probably would be better to do it after, especially if they are going to win their matches, or one of them.) Then having the NWO come after HHH for the title will be very cool.|
From: State College, PA
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|AIM: || ||#10 Posted on 6.3.02 1718.56 |
|You know (had to start like that being that we're talking about Nash, et al) it seems like everyone is bitching about this angle for one reason; it isn't being told exactly how it was before. They're not running in during everybody's matches (like they did in WCW). They're not winning any and every confrontation (like they did in WCW). And no, they haven't proved to be much of a cancer yet (as they were in WCW).|
But this isn't WCW. This isn't Eric Bischoff's nWo anymore... this is Vince McMahon's version. The players are a little bit older too. So OF COURSE they can't and won't play it like they did six years ago. Not only would it not be believeable, but the WWF would have every smark columnist on the web complaining that Steffie doesn't have any imagination and is just ripping off Uncle Eric's old ideas.
Yes, the nWo needs to step it up in and around the ring (if they can). And their promos HAVE to be better if they're going to get themselves over on their verbal skills. And if they're going to run roughshod over the locker room then they need a major defector... both to bolster their in-ring skills and their talents as mind-game players.
There are plenty of flaws in how the nWo has been presented to date. But doing it different than WCW did is not one of them.
From: Brooklyn NY
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|#11 Posted on 7.3.02 1129.13 |
Originally posted by Flash
This isn't Eric Bischoff's nWo anymore... this is Vince McMahon's version.
And that would be fine, EXCEPT that's not the way it was built up.
Vince himself said he was bringing in The Poison because he wanted to destroy the federation, that he wanted the nWo to do EXACTLY what they'd done in WCW. Vince's hype was clear that he didn't want "his" version, he wanted THAT version.
Vince trumpeted the fed-busting and business-destroying aspect for WEEKS before No Way Out. So we were all in fact lead to believe that we would be seeing "Eric Bischoff's nWo"; a slower, heavier version, I admit, but with basically the same overall intentions.
So where the hell is it?