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The W - Pro Wrestling - Is it really that bad?
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Since: 1.3.03

Since last post: 5205 days
Last activity: 3980 days
#1 Posted on
Looking around the net, it would be difficult to find any site or reporter who looks upon the WWE product favourably. Its been the way for a couple of years now, ever since the death of WCW, but the question, is it REALLY that bad? And what era are we comparing the current product too? Was it just that the WCW product was so bad, that it was easy to praise the WWE product?

I have always been of the opinion, and probably always will be, that the WWE has never been about wrestling. Not in the 70's, 80's or 90's.

Wrestling has been about two things; Entertainment and characters.

If you look around the WWE today purely on a in ring basis, you have the most talented performers ever of any given era. The list of names is endless, Storm, Benoit, Angle, Edge, Eddie, Chavo, Christian, Matt Hardy, Brock Lesner, HBK, Rikishi(Yes he deserves to sit amongst these names), Cena, Kidman, Jericho, RVD, Booker T, Regal, Spike, Bubba Ray, Rey Mysterio, Charlie Hass, Shelton Benjamin - the list is endless. And consequently, because the talent is better, they put on better in ring matches.

Looking back down history, what are the standout matches in previous generations? There can't be many. Not with workers like Hogan and Warrior headlining shows, supported by a cast of the likes of Bossman, Akeem, One Man Gang, Hercules, Repo Man, Earthquake, Typhoon etc. Sure there were some great workers amongst those; Jake Roberts, Ted Dibiase, Rick Rude, Macho Man they pale in comparission to the quality today.

So, it certainly can't have been ring work which was the selling point back then. What was it? Characters. Larger than life characters working within a script to provide entertainment with the in ring action as the pay off to the scripts.

So what has changed in terms of the actual on screen product? Nothing. Well aside from the fact that the scripts are more risque today in an effort to capture a more mainstream market. The inconsistancies that exist today also existed back then, with more and more fans being "smart" they are simply put under a microscope and everything is analysed and critiqued. That close nothing or no one can look good. I don't doubt at all for a second that had the net existed in that day and age, the arguments being made today would be the very same.

One other change to note, that has taken place (which isn't the in ring product, but directly affects it) is the amount of wrestling we do see these days. Two, 2 hour A shows, two, 1 hour B shows as well as a monthly PPV as well as of course the news access of the net.

Thats not to say, Im happy with the state of affairs now and then even, because personally I think it could be so much better. McMahon has his hands on a unique business which offers everything in other form of entertainment can, characters, on going scripts, athletic action, live audiences, theatre, comedy, music, sex, violence, drama - in short the lot. No other event or form of entertainment can hope to be able to offer so much in one show. And just on that basis, they should have a better product where effort and time is put into developing the show, not only from a production standpoing - which they appear to be head and shoulders above anyone, but from a script and character development standpoint.

The thing is, I, personally don't have a problem with lesbian, gay and even necrophilia angles. BUT, they must fit into the script and fit the mould of the characters. The Billy and Chuck gay wedding angle was executed superbly, I don't think it got the plaudits it deserved. It is quite possibly for me, argubally, the greatest angle I have ever seen. Months of build up went into it, it didn't come out of the blue, the actions fit the characters and the pay off was brilliant, right down to Bischoff in disguise and the mention of "3 minutes". And even if they had gone down the angle of actually marrying Gunn and Palumbo, it would have made sense. It was still right in the context of the script. The only failure was how both Billy and Chuck were buried after it.

The Lesbian and Necrophilia sadly did not fall into the script or match the character traits. If they had to pull off a necrophilia angle, it should have been built up and used with a character whose mould it fit, based on the current WWE characters, Raven surely would have been the closest and not HHH.

As fan, it always amazes me that we expect anything else, but why do we keep watching? Because what the Wrestling/Sports Entertainment industry offers cannot be be obtained elsewhere. Sure you can switch off the WWE and watch Friends and you'll get the comedy and scripts. But you won't get the athletic action. Sure you can watch CSI or 24 and you'll get the drama and suspense, but you won't get the comedy and spontaneous action you get from the WWE and the reaction of a live audience. Sure you can turn on to a given sport and get the athletic action, but will you get the characters? The drama? The comedy? Nope, only the WWE can offer you that.

Anyway before I ramble off into obsecurity (if I haven't already), my personal belief is the argument that "wrestling" was about real wrestling back in the day or even a better product, is nothing short of a myth.

Edit: Damn typos.

(edited by Crip on 24.4.03 0207)

(edited by Crip on 24.4.03 0842)

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Lap cheong

Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 3986 days
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#2 Posted on



Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 4511 days
Last activity: 4216 days
#3 Posted on
The reason why it is "really that bad" is because now WWE is in a position to do soemthing no other promotion could do. They have ALL the marbles. All the big stars, all the dream matchups, all the possibilities and have squandered all of them in an attempt to: a. get revenge on some stars; b. get HHH over. I mean, Invasion should have been the dram angle and they screwed it up. Golberg/Rock should have been a dream match up and they have screwed that up to the point I don't even care anymore. There are countless other examples. But it is like a series of first round draft picks turning into busts. That is exactly what is happening. Potential being wasted over and over again.

January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.

Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 4511 days
Last activity: 4216 days
#4 Posted on
(deleted by dskillz on 24.4.03 0754)

Since: 4.1.02
From: Chicago

Since last post: 1153 days
Last activity: 403 days
#5 Posted on
I'd have to tend to agree with Crip for the most part. I don't think the stuff that is going on today is that much worse than what was going on in '98-'99. It's really the same kind of stuff for the most part. It may be a little staler now, but they are trying to come up with new stuff for two, two hour shows YEAR ROUND. I can't imagine how tough that must be. Does any other show on tv even come close to putting out that amount of material? If anything, I didn't care much for a lot more stuff going on in 98-99 than I do today, and just about everything was praised in those days. There is a lot of great stuff going on nowadays that gets over looked for the sake of complaining. Granted most of the good stuff is on Smackdown right now, but things will even out over time. It's all just a matter of perception.

I totally agree that a big part of it comes from a lack of another major company to compare it to (sorry, but TNA doesn't count since you can't just flip on the tube to try it out without shelling out cash). There has always been stupid shit (Undertaker embalming Steve Austin, anyone?), but people like to over look things when it is convenient for them. I mean, the week that Undertaker crucified Austin on the "symbol" some people may have complained about being offended, but I bet the majority of the IWC community spent their time criticizing what was going on with with WCW that week. If that same scenario happened today there would be endless threads on message boards about how Vince has lost it. He's lost touch with what's going on, and WWE is going to go out of business. I'm not saying everything is wonderful and flawless, but it has not gone so downhill, as people want you to believe.

Another part of it is people jumping on bandwagons. It's been stated over and over again that wrestling popularity goes in cycles. So we are in a down cycle right now. So what? The problem is that people see that the ratings are down, so they think everything must be bad or their must be something wrong. Wrestling isn't "cool" anymore, so we must disect everything and try to figure out why. No matter what was on Raw and Smackdown right now the ratings would stay about the same. A big chunk of the wrestling audience of the late 90s will never come back, because they have found new interests. When I was in ccollege all the guys that lived on campus ate up everything wrestling, and now they couldn't give two shits about it no matter what.

Also, part of WWE's struggles comes from the fact that they are trying to make two completely different federations out of one. It's something that has never been attempted before by a major wrestling company (for a while it looked like WCW was heading that way with the NWO, but we know what happened with that). No other company has ever been big enough and powerful enough to attempt something like this. I think it can work out in the end, as long as they build some new stars to take the place of the guys who will be out the door soon. Who knows though, maybe it will flop, but at least they gave it a shot. It's been a year now- we'll see where we are a year from now.

One criticism that really gets me is the HHH holding the belt so long that things are getting stale and no one is going to care by the time he drops it (I am not trying to tread into HHH arguments- I'm just using this as an example). WTF? Go back a few years ago (ok, maybe more like five or six), and a guy holding a belt for six of seven months (with a one month break in there) would have been seen as a short reign, and he would be considered a transitional champion. Doesn't anyone remember one year plus title reigns? How about the four year reign of Hogan? So he's beaten every contender, and there are no credible faces left to challenege him? Some one will come around. Look at the WWF of old- there was usually one or two credible challengers at a time, and nothing more. Trust me, when HHH drops the belt it will be pretty damn cool, and well worth the wait. If the internet was around back in the late 80s everyone would have been up in arms, ready to abandon the WWF for holding down Ted Dibiase, and not giving him a title reign. There is so much complaining now because there is an outlet for it unlike back then, so when you hear others constant complaints it makes things seem worse.

Maybe things would be better if they just simplified, and went back to squash shows once a week and PPVs every four months. But there is no turning back now, and ya know what, people would still complain.

So no, Crip, it isn't really that bad.

"The Universe is shaped exactly like the Earth. You go straight long enough you end up where you were."

Since: 12.2.03
From: New York, USA

Since last post: 3987 days
Last activity: 3063 days
#6 Posted on
Crip, this was very, very well said and I thank you for it.
WWE(and pro-wrestling) is the most unique thing you'll find on television, I mean, its got something for everyone. And that's how it supposed to be, because its not 100% pure sport nor is it 100% pure entertainment. You want a straight up wrestling show, then watch the olympic or amateur stuff. Don't like wrestling matches, then stick your sheepish sitcoms. There are bad times, just as there are with all things, but its just not enough to turn me away. My only regret is not getting into it earlier. Its really fun for me, whether I'm enjoying it or am angry at it. It's still a real hobby for me.

(edited by darkmatcher on 24.4.03 0932)

fear hamburglar...

Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 24 days
Last activity: 3 days
#7 Posted on
He's making sense! Ban him!

Since: 26.7.02
From: Maine

Since last post: 4172 days
Last activity: 4156 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.91

    is it REALLY that bad?


Rangers Lead the Way!
Big Brother

Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#9 Posted on

    Originally posted by PowerPB13
    He's making sense! Ban him!
Come back when Triple H is married.

Only *14* wins to go!
Lap cheong

Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 3252 days
Last activity: 858 days
#10 Posted on
The main thing that pisses me off is the piss-poor writing. WWF v. WCW is the easiest angle in the world to book, and they blew it over pettiness. Goldberg v. Rock is another very easy angle to book, and they killed it dead because McMahon thought "Hey, wouldn't it be funny if Goldberg was more of a cartoon character, and had a funny interaction with Goldust where he wears a wig?"

You make some valid points, but in the end, I don't think there is ANY excuse for the WWE to totally ignore the fans and push what McMahon wants down the people's throats. The fans of today do not want the same product that Vince McMahon wants, and they're proving that by leaving in droves. Bottom line, this is a business. And Vince's business is failing because of pettiness and stupidity. Plain and simple.

Net Hack Slasher

Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 4901 days
Last activity: 3320 days
#11 Posted on

    Originally posted by CRZ

      Originally posted by PowerPB13
      He's making sense! Ban him!
    Come back when Triple H is married.

There goes the only poster that I see "You are ignoring this wiener" at all his text.

The thing that gets me about the WWE right now is that they are doing the Exact same thing and went down the exact same road and in alot of cases the Exact same people of what was WCW's downfall. From the top, in having some wrestlers having too much say and power, to even little things like blaming everyone else for their problem, even to backstage fights that was unheard of a couple of years ago... Seriously you go back and read archive Ross Reports from 3 years ago and it's surreal on the stuff he made fun of in what was going on in WCW now the exact same thing that he belittled WCW was doing is going on in the WWE in past year.

All you can do is shake your head and hope someone sees the light sooner then later

cause there's limits to our liberties.
'Least I hope and pray that there are,
cause those liberal freaks go too far.

I'll crush all opposition to me
And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay
If he fights back, I'll say that he's gay
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for you people who were born in the 90's,you have never seen anything but this type of crap so full of shit ,my young grandson laughs......
- jerry101, stinks (2010)
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