Originally posted by wmatisticI can't imagine what NBC is thinking right now. Jay is getting bashed by everyone, they have to see this going on, right?
Define "everyone." The internet is definitely strongly in favour of Conan. But old people love Jay Leno and don't like that scary young Conan O'Brien. He's too "weird." My mom hates Conan and my dad loves Leno; they're just not talking about it on the internet.
This is an honest question and I'm not trying to sound like a dick - how many of you actually watch The Tonight Show regularly? Not on DVR, not on Hulu, not on YouTube, but actually routinely watch the show while it's first being aired. I don't know anyone my age (let's say early... ugh, no, mid 30s) or younger who does that for any of the late-night shows. I know people who DVR the shows, and I know people who watch clips online - I do those things too sometimes. And I much prefer Conan to Leno, as do my friends. But the only people I know who regularly watch the shows as they're airing are older people who are also Leno fans.
I get that the issue has become Conan's treatment. And yes, Leno is only out for himself (though there's no real reason to expect otherwise) and NBC is a bunch of cocks. But all these #teamconan hashtags can't be retroactively added to his ratings. If that support had been there all along, maybe Leno would have been told to go pound sand like we all seem to want.
I flip the shows on most nights as I'm going to bed. By everyone I meant all the talk shows themselves are bashing Jay. So even if it's just us 30 something guys doing it online, everyone is seeing Leno bashed on TV this week.
Originally posted by KJames199This is an honest question and I'm not trying to sound like a dick - how many of you actually watch The Tonight Show regularly? Not on DVR, not on Hulu, not on YouTube, but actually routinely watch the show while it's first being aired. I don't know anyone my age (let's say early... ugh, no, mid 30s) or younger who does that for any of the late-night shows. I know people who DVR the shows, and I know people who watch clips online - I do those things too sometimes. And I much prefer Conan to Leno, as do my friends. But the only people I know who regularly watch the shows as they're airing are older people who are also Leno fans.
I'm 26 years old and routinely have to be up at 8 am every morning during the work week and I do manage to catch Conan on the first airing. (My schedule, unfortunately, means I have to catch Craig Ferguson on the DVR.) If anything, Conan going to "Tonight" was the best thing to happen to me, since I wasn't in a position anymore to stay up until 12:35.
I still find it hard to believe that older people watch "Tonight" more than the 18-35 demographic. I thought older people were in bed by 11.
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Letterman, in the earlier timeslot, does the more acerbic, snarky jokes. Ferguson, in the later timeslot, was all-in! "Rat bastards" was pretty good. "Do you think you're burning bridges with NBC here?"
Meanwhile, over on ABC, Kimmel did the whole show in Leno makeup & lisp -- Leno taking over every show in late night. I was out of DVRs, but have watched the clips. Chevy Chase was very good, being in the delicate position of being an NBC employee, but probably having a significant opinion. There were a couple of times that he clearly wanted to say something snarky, but thought better of it & stopped.
I don't blame Jimmy Fallon for hunkering down & keeping a low profile. On the other hand, it is kinda chickenshit for the "edgy" Late Night spot ...
I would love to be privy to all the actual backchannel phone & personal conversations that are happening among the big players in all this!
Originally posted by emmaI don't blame Jimmy Fallon for hunkering down & keeping a low profile. On the other hand, it is kinda chickenshit for the "edgy" Late Night spot ...
Since Jimmy is still new to the late night scene and doesn't have the tenure that the other vets do, you really can't blame him for being "chickenshit" and saying nothing about the situation since he has the most to lose.
The recent news that Conan O’Brien will be replaced by Jay Leno has caused white people to erupt with rage and hostility. You might even expect them to lash out and do something about it like take to the streets or write a letter to NBC to voice their dissatisfaction with the network. But no, white people will solve this problem the way that they solved the election crisis in Iran – through Facebook and Twitter status updates. In 2009, millions of white people took 35 seconds to turn their twitter profiles green, and consequently sent a very powerful message to the leaders of Iran. Their message was that they wanted their friends to know that they would stop at nothing to ensure freedom and democracy for the Iranian people. Thanks in large part to that effort Iran is now completely democratic. With that issue settled, white people are launching a similar campaign for Conan that is sure to have similar results.
It is not hard to understand why white people love Conan O’Brien, he embodies so many of the things they already like before he even opens his mouth: Ivy League Schools, Red Hair, the Boston Red Sox, Self Deprecating Humor, The Simpsons, and Bad Memories of High School (likely, but not confirmed). Seeing him on television five nights a week is a comforting reminder of community to the white people who still have televisions.
But if your plan is to try to use Conan O’Brien as a way to get white people to become more interested you, then it is imperative that you understand a few key rules. Firstly, all white people love “the masturbating bear,” if you don’t know what this is, do not worry. Just state your love for the character, and the white person you are talking to will simply fill in the rest. Secondly, all white people believe that Andy Richter never should have left the show. And finally, you should do your best to develop a “Triumph the Insult Comic Dog” impression. All white people already have one, so you might as well try to fit in. Complete these steps and watch your friendship with white people become considerably smoother.
Now, the biggest and most important thing to remember is to never, under any circumstances bring up a Conan O’Brien sketch or joke that has taken place in the last three years. You will be met with only blank stares. For you see, while white people will fiercely support Conan O’Brien in any public forum, they always fail to support him in the only way that actually helps – by watching his show.
Note: Under no circumstances should you ever mention that you prefer Jay Leno. This might cause white people to think you have the same taste in humor as the wrong kind of white people, or worse, their parents.
After watching last night's episode of The Tonight Show it seems like Conan might be taking some shots at Leno on the air. Before I thought it was all anti-NBC sentiment, and it still might be, but for the first time I noticed him throw a few jabs (e.g., "grow 10 pounds of chin" in order to keep his job).
The crappy part about all of this is that I'm pretty sure once Leno takes over The Tonight Show, the ratings will go back up to normal and NBC will feel vindicated. The problem with that thinking is the fact that any rise in Tonight Show ratings will probably have less to do with who is hosting and more to do with what NBC puts on the air at 10:00p. Conan had a good point in saying that The Tonight Show's success depends on NBC having at least half decent primetime programming at 10:00p. People don't want to watch a comedy talk show at the time - not from Leno and probably not from anybody else - so they tune out and never come back. But if Leno moves back to 11:35p and NBC puts original programming back at 10:00p, his ratings are almost sure surpass Conan's.
I think there's another component to Conan's ratings troubles, but this is more conjecture on my part than anything else. Conan almost certainly has built up a young audience during his 16 years on Late Night. I would also wager that those same young people are more likely to get their news from CNN.com, Yahoo.com, foxnews.com, twitter, Facebook, etc. than from their local late night news. Someone would have to check the ratings, but I bet the vast majority of people watching the news at 11:00p are people that have been watching the news at 11:00p for years. Decades even. In other words, old people. So they watch the news at 11 and then stick around for Leno, who they've become accustomed to over the years. But when Leno was suddenly replaced, the 11:00p news watchers probably didn't stick around in the same numbers. And since they weren't already in Conan's main fanbase, the addition of Conan wasn't likely to keep them around.
And ANOTHER random guess on my part: what are the odds that Lopez Tonight (George Lopez's 11:00p TBS talk show) has hurt Conan? He gets a half hour head start and he gets a pretty good selection of guests. Really he gets about the same number of A-listers as any of the other late night hosts. And, dare I say it, he's actually kinda funny. I don't know how his ratings are though. Mr. Boffo?
Originally posted by StingArmy And ANOTHER random guess on my part: what are the odds that Lopez Tonight (George Lopez's 11:00p TBS talk show) has hurt Conan? He gets a half hour head start and he gets a pretty good selection of guests. Really he gets about the same number of A-listers as any of the other late night hosts. And, dare I say it, he's actually kinda funny. I don't know how his ratings are though. Mr. Boffo?
Information on cable tv ratings is very dependent on network press releases. The last we've heard about Lopez Tonight was the week ending December 20th, where it averaged where it averaged 1.3 million viewers and 845k adults 18-49 (approximately a .6 rating). For comparison, Letterman averaged a 1.5 rating among adults 18-49, and Conan averaged a 1.2 (assuming I am reading the graph at http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/01/13/obrien-might-still-be-at-1135-if-team-conan-had-watched-the-tonight-show/38787 correctly) that same week. While that might hurt things a little, I don't see any reason to assume that Lopez is hurting Conan's number more than he's hurting Letterman's.
Thanks for the numbers. I would assume that Lopez Tonight would hurt both Conan and Dave, being direct competition to both. But I would also think that it would hurt Conan more than it would hurt Dave because I think Lopez's viewers skew younger just like Conan's viewers.
Then again, without seeing numbers for Conan and Dave from the period before Lopez Tonight was on the air, there's no way to exclude the possibility that a lot of Lopez's viewers are brand new to the late night game altogether.
After watching a clip of Jennifer Love Hewitt on Lopez Tonight, I might have to start watching this show.
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NBC looks like they keep digging themselves in a deeper and deeper hole.
The story is incorrect in saying that Conan has quit. Conan has put down an ultimatum that he will not go on with the Tonight Show at 12:05, meaning if Jay quits and the Tonight Show continues at 11:35, Conan plans to continue.
Originally posted by StingArmyAfter watching last night's episode of The Tonight Show it seems like Conan might be taking some shots at Leno on the air. Before I thought it was all anti-NBC sentiment, and it still might be, but for the first time I noticed him throw a few jabs (e.g., "grow 10 pounds of chin" in order to keep his job).
He went harder last night, as I recall an early joke being something like "Kids you can be anything you want to be when you grow up. Unless Jay Leno also wants be it."
I don't know Jay Leno, never met the man, nor am I a psychologist or a mind reader (pause for your gasps), but he's got to be demoralized by all of the vitriol against him.
I read The Late Shift and watched the movie back in the 90's and they portrayed Jay as essentially a nice guy (his questionable business tactics aside) who NEEDS to be seen by people as a nice guy. His late night peers are all taking cruel shots at him and painting him as the villain. No one seems to like him very much, nor does anyone publicly have his back the way people publicly support Coco.
I think Jay also thinks of himself as a victim of NBC, and he is as well. He didn't want to leave the Tonight Show to begin with, his 10pm show failed, the NBC affiliates are squarely blaming him for their 11pm news tanking, and he probably also feels like he's getting the short end of the stick by his show being cut to a half hour by NBC for the 11:35pm return. But no one will see his side of things, all they see is poor Conan O'Brien being mistreated.
Of course, not being a fan of Leno's, I don't feel particularly badly for the guy. I don't enjoy his work and he's richer than I'll ever be. Unless Leno quits - thereby clearing the path for NBC to bend over backwards to make it all up to Conan to continue his Tonight Show - Leno taking the Tonight Show back won't endear him to the popular public sentiment (though the over 50 year olds will feel like everything's back to normal.)
A couple of days ago, people asked who Team Jay were. It's the same membership as it always was: Team Jay is NBC. And also, Jerry Seinfeld.
For the first time, late night TV has become must see TV. Even if I tape it for the following day.
Letterman's become pretty vicious in his commentary. I don't know his relationship with Conan or Leno (I'd bet someone here knows the scoop) but some of his wording is really sad. Is he saving face? Letterman's not being very gracious at all. Yes, it's a messy situation, and if poking fun at it is good for a few laughs, then so be it, but I honestly think that Letterman's acting like a douche.
So what happens if Leno and Conan leave? Would Fallon takes over The Tonight Show? Where does that leave the 12:35am show?
Originally posted by OliverLetterman's not being very gracious at all. Yes, it's a messy situation, and if poking fun at it is good for a few laughs, then so be it, but I honestly think that Letterman's acting like a douche.
And I say, "Go Letterman!" He's always funniest when he's this kind of mood.
Originally posted by BroncolancheSeinfeld, Zucker and Paul Reiser are the only ones solidly behind Jay.
Lord knows, when I'm in trouble, I just think to myself, "If only PAUL REISER were here..."
I'm sure he believes what he's saying but the minute people start tuning out because they're sick of the disaster images, they'll tone back. As long as people tune in to see it, they're going to keep showing them over and over again.